For the last time FIRE.....FIRE ...FIRE JEAN PASSNANTE AND CHRIS GOUTMAN

[Soapsuds]

Jean comes pretty close. Adam was an angel...LOL...she totally ruined him!

[winterguy125]

I agree these two need to go, I am really wondering if CBS already knows that ATWT and GL are gone in a year and they just don't care to try to save the shows. I mean really look at ABC there ratings are not nearly as bad as this and changes were made, why is CBS not making these changes, these soaps are in much worse shape than the ABC ones are.

[WorldTurner]

But a lot of people are losing the desire to even root for CarJack anymore. Jack is being destroyed and people are questioning if they even want him with Carly anymore. Plus this story has been played out before. How long is it going to last this time? I disagree that the other stories are good. Quite honestly I can't think of one good story right now. Balance in stories and use of the cast is definitely lacking. As far as worse writers, well this is the only soap I watch so I am only going by the standard I expect on ATWT and this is one of the darker times for the show. The show is used to peaks and valleys but it has been stuck in this valley for a while now with really nothing on the horizon to suggest it is going to get better. Serious changes need to happen and I don't see that happening unless they make some changes at EP and HW.

[Soapsuds]

I am thinking the same thing. And I am not the only one either on this board who believes what we both believe.

[winterguy125]

But why are the characters that way for, because of the writing. There is no reason why characters could not be made to be interesting and not be in a couple it just takes a writer that knows what the hell she/he is doing. I hate to even say this but you are right they are boring when they are not in a couple, and even then they are boring, lol. Take Luke for example I love Luke with all my heart but JP makes him so boring because she never gives him anything interesting to do, Barbara is even boring now, for the same reason. JP writes for couples/triangles/ and now her new favorite quadrangles and this is not what ATWT is about it is about Family drama and business intrigue and mystery, not couples and such. When was the last time we had a mystery with the adults in the storyline and not the teens? When was the last time we had a real business storyline, the WorldWide thing started off right, but now is back to being about Craig/Paul/Meg and not the business. The only thing JP has done good so far is the Lily/Faith Family drama stuff that is about it, and know she is dropping the ball on that storyline also. Yes we need couples but not everything on the show needs to be about that, it just does not work atleast IMO anyway.

My point being this is not B&B this is ATWT, B&B is the couple/triangle campy show not ATWT. It works on B&B not ATWT.

[Soapsuds]

ATWT had triangles before....good ones...Damian/Lily/Holden to name one. Jean P. just doesnt know how to write good triangle stories.

[winterguy125]

I agree they had them(also agree they were better written) but back then you had that and all of the other stuff ATWT is about, now we just have that. It is fine to have couples/triangles but just not every storyline being about that, and the least she could do is do it right like you said. There just needs to be a better mix of things. And another thing that I think is really wrong right now is that ATWT is not a slow paced show at all, atleast not this slow. Storylines go nowhere with JP, I used to think Y&R was bad with the slow storylines well JP is taking the cake with that one.

If it were not for Luke and Noah coming up, if that is even a good storyline, I would be gone from ATWT nothing is holding my interest at all anymore, I could tune out for 6 months and come back and still see Cleo asking whether or not she could stay another day. I have already tuned out of Y&R again and I have watched that show most of my life. B&B same thing. Something needs to just be done.

[Soapsuds]

Yup, Jean stories go in circles. The same stuff is repeated day after day. An example is the Meg/Craig marriage fiasco. It keeps repeating the same damn thing over and over again. The story concept is bad to begin with and the repeating of dialgue and it going nowhere is the last straw.

[aMLCproduction]

It's coming. You just got to be patient. CBS is going to act soon. Everytime ABC makes a move, CBS esp P&G shows always have a counter attack. Since AMC and OLTL just changed their writers, ATWT will soon follow suite. The writing is basically on the wall with the drop in ratings

[jfung79]

winterguy, you raise some good points, but actually I only meant that Jack, and specifically Jack, is boring when he is not in a couple (and even sometimes when he is in a couple).

Jack's boringness is not the fault of the writing, to me this is just how the character of Jack is. He's always been the boring judgmental one (and hypocritically so), compared with Carly's more free spirit. You just can't overexpose boring judgmental Jack and have him be the only lead character on the show without other longtime actors also being leads. Other leads should be Holden and Lily, or Tom and Margo, or Lucinda, written properly and in three dimensions with storylines from their point of view, as they were in 1999 when I was first watching ATWT. I also agree with you that having multigenerational family storylines is important.

As for pace, ATWT was actually a slow-paced soap when I was first watching, with the dragged-out revelation of Reid Hamilton being David Stenbeck, and the dragged-out custody situation over baby Hope -- but it wasn't repetitious or arbitrary. The problem with this Craig/Meg stuff is not that it's slow-paced, it's that there is no rhyme or reason to the pacing, and the pacing is not leading to development of the story in any way that makes sense. The story seems to be made up on the go. You often either have the same dialogue over and over with no movement that adds nothing to understanding of the characters, or a sudden shock like "Marry me, Meg". Big events without small building events or rippling events to accompany them, and lots of words without enough convincing answering via those words of why something is happening or why something else will happen next.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Um, fire Jean Piss and bring back Lorraine Broderick! Broderick was the last writer to write the show as it should be written. She wrote multi-layered characters, wrote for the vets, and most of all, her storytelling had BALANCE! Just look at that episode count from 1998 that was posted a few days ago, that all occurred under Broderick's tenure!

Hogan gets too much credit on this show, it was really Broderick who brought the show out of the rough patch it had experienced after Douglas Marland's death. As you can tell from my other posts, I'm a huge fan of this woman's work. LOL!

[P.J.]

The problem is not what character is "leading" airtime. The problem is NOT ONE OF THE [!@#$%^&*] STORIES ON AIR MAKES A BIT OF [!@#$%^&*] SENSE!!!

Meg's Quest...uh, can ANYONE explain to me why a woman who's spent the better part of the last year PREACHING against revenge, is now spearheading the charge to return WW to Lucinda? Out of GUILT? Why? It wasn't Meg's fault Lily was a criminally incompetant executive. Meg didn't "introduce" Craig into her safe little family unit, he's been a "friend" of the family for years (uh...he's schtupped her two sisters...) According to her, it's because he "made her into a liar" when he covered her criminally negligent ass when a patient died. NOW, Craig's done a lot of horrible things....but it seems really ungrateful to shove his magnanimous, if agenda-filled, gesture up his ass. Meanwhile....Paul, A STENBECK by blood....puts on his pouty face, when his fiancee announces her intention to marry another man. Who he holds responsible for driving his sister to an early grave, and putting the other love of his life in a coma. *smacks head* Yeah...I'd just sit around and let her marry the chump too. IF I WERE PAUL STENBECK, child of two of the meanest, cruelest, most ruthless people who'd ever hit Oakdale.

Jack/Katie/Carly....yeah, the HUHA syndrome started last summer with this group, when TIIC decided to pimp Paul Leyden as often as possible, and destroy the characters that would stick around once he'd taken his Fame seeking ass back to Hollywood. Carly's now a criminal, thanks to "good ol' Simon", who became so obsessed with basking in his Australian assets, she kept risking her very freedom to make sure he was "okay". She put the welfare of a GROWN man over that of her children. Yes, Maura's maternity leave had to be accomodated, but to break the one overriding virtue Carly has had forEVER stunk. Katie, though I hated her anyway, became the shrillest ball-buster this side of the Atlantic, and obsessed with the thought Simon had "moved on" without her...THREE years after their divorce. She cheated on her husband, and manages to be portrayed as the victim, IN HER OWN REVENGE scheme. And Jack...poor, poor Jack. He's been lobotomized to pimp not only a "relationship" with a woman who hurt his children's mother, but a woman WHO CHEATED ON HER HUSBAND and one of his best friends, WITH the guy who has caused his children such pain. How can anyone believe this [!@#$%^&*]?

Emily the Whore....'nuff said. Just having a string of ONSs would have been enough...but to have her relish it for any length of time was disgusting. And if they think an Em/Dusty relationship is going to fly, they're nuts.

GWEN...ugh. The Lily of the new millenium, minus the constant string of admirers. Every (and I mean each. and. every. one.) of the teens plots revolves around her. AKA, OVERKILL. Gwen doesn't "deal with problems"....Gwen is tormented to the point of madness every four months. TIIC ruined a core family member in it's slavish desire to pimp Jen Landon. There is no conflict for that girl from her own life, it's always these outlandish plots of others (ie, Jade) who just hate her to hate her. Now we've got Cleo, who is a cross between Rain Man and one of those "Up With People" cheerleaders from 25 years ago. Who gives a [!@#$%^&*] about Cleo? She has no purpose other than cheerleading Gwen. Like there aren't ENOUGH people in Oakdale who already DO THAT?????? The BEST story they could ever do for her is to bring back Iris, break up Willen, and let Gwen deal with her lousy upbringing on her own.

The MOST realistic stories are those of the preteens, and I think it's only by the grace of God and the CBS morality police that we don't have some internet porn perverts chasing after Faith, JJ, and Parker through cyberspace. I can only imagine what crap Pissy would write for them, if given her druthers.

The ONLY story that's really working is Henry/Vienna, and they're on about ONCE A WEEK. That's not to say the acting in the other stories isn't (for the most part) GREAT....because it's only the acting that's keeping this Garbage Barge afloat.

[Soapsuds]

Bravo P.J. Excellent Post! Standing ovation!!!!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

The link to the episode count from 1998 btw: http://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/index.p...c=19571&hl=

Lorraine Broderick's tenure as HW.

Just look how far the show has fallen in terms of balance through the years, it's truly a shame. Ellen Dolan was #2 for the year end count in 98, yet now she doesn't even get a frickin' story! Something's definitely wrong there!

[jfung79]

I think it's both. My message above gives reasons.

I agree with whoever said that Lorraine Broderick was the last great writer on ATWT who wrote balanced, sensical stories.