I hope they'll post the transcript or the video...

http://cms.mit.edu/events/eventInfo.php?eventID=055

I would echo the caution about the internet fan voice, there's so much volunteer bias involved (and Alden recognized this self-selection in the talk) and soooo many message boards become gathering places and echo chambers for like-minded fans, representativeness becomes a problem. Still I think it could be used jointly with other sources of feedback, and I'd sure be interested to know what Ford's thesis has to say about it.

Listening to this has brought up interesting thoughts about consistency versus change, some of which Kenny already spoke of.

I thought her comments on the internet and fan "research" were fascinating. She seemed very critical of the focus group research. I loved it, 40 (maybe on a good day 80 if you do two groups) people in the middle of the country dictating where ther show goes? She didn't seem all that impressed and even less impressed when she talked about the end result which was that the characters were disliked enmass presently.

I also thought she was far more open to the net which was interesting. She was cautious and obviously very aware of the problems with the net but in one respect she seemed somewhat critical of the dismissive nature of the "suits" towards the net. I thought that tied nicely to some of her earlier comments about who soap fans were, why they watched (CHARACTER), the habitual nature of the fan watching and so on. Likewise it tied to other comments she was making about long time soap fans the need for new fans and the disinfrangiement of the long term fan.

One thing that struck me about her was just how well she grasped the problems facing the industry.

The bits about Y&R and how the ratings are lower (and more inconsistant) than when she left made me so sad. I'm very jealous of the AMC fans and am almost throwing cyber tomatos. Since Alden and Jack Smith left there has been such a steep turn in the show. All of the praise and control Latham gained is clearly because they were there fighting to maintain the integrity of the show. I will always defend my defense of Latham last year because the show was half decent. Now that she's by herself? Awful!

The success of Y&R is more important than saving any other soap. If it's ratings fall with the rest of the pack or worse we are totally screwed. I just hope someone looks at what Latham is doing and gets rid of her. They need to follow the classic format of passing the torch onto someone who knows the show. I know Alden/Smith are gone, but why not bring back Trent Jones, Jim Houghton and whoever Alden's successor was?

I don't agree with her about the unabortion storyline. I do think it can be undone and quickly. Josh or Erica gets sick and they find out that they aren't related. Madden switched the DNA results and end of story. One last plot driven storyline to erase the damage done by McT. The only other thing would be to kill off his character so we can forget about the fiasco or try to anyway.

I must have missed the part where she said she had a bible for AMC. Anyone remember what part it was? She said that she had storylines planned for the next six months for AMC. She seemed interested in becoming the HW but her role sounds like it is still limited.

I do think the fan reaction from the internet should be taken into account to a certain degree. The fans do tend to push their agendas/couples and drive posters away on the web but the initial reaction to storylines could be useful for them. They need a way to combine the focus groups, ratings, and internet response together.

I still have no desire to watch AMC again. With the return of Greenlee, I am actually more turned off by the possibility of a Rylee part 2. McTavish ruined the show for me and I am not sure enough steps are being taking at this point to repair the damage for me.

Jeff Martin's DNA was never tested, so the unabortion can be undone

(Chris B @ May 9 2007, 04:45 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bits about Y&R and how the ratings are lower (and more inconsistant) than when she left made me so sad. I'm very jealous of the AMC fans and am almost throwing cyber tomatos. Since Alden and Jack Smith left there has been such a steep turn in the show. All of the praise and control Latham gained is clearly because they were there fighting to maintain the integrity of the show. I will always defend my defense of Latham last year because the show was half decent. Now that she's by herself? Awful!

I'm really glad, Chris, you changed your tune. All that Latham praise was really annoying. But, I'm not sure Kay is right when it comes to ratings. Yes, Latham reached 3.9, which Kay didn't in the ratings I have, but Lynn had some high points (4.6) in that regard. No matter how undeserved that was. So, I think there should be a more precise analysis of the ratings pre-Latham and Latham era.

I think Lynn stole all those AMC viewers who were sick of the trash McTavish wrote, and that's why Y&R had a temporary surge in ratings. I also believe Barbie regrets the decision sh

e made of hiring Lynn. At least somewhat. And I hope Kay gets a HW position over

 

at ABC and writes some beautiful stories so that Barbie regrets it even more. 

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Sylph

I saw on another board that Kay Alden was brought to MIT because she has been working with a Master's student named Sam Ford who has written his thesis on how soap operas can survive, using ATWT as a case study. I know he is referenced several times in the podcast.

Yes, Sam Ford has written a thesis about As the World Turns and transmedia, and I beliveve he'll piblish it so that everyone can reed it. I've been following his posts over at CCC blog and also the comments from Lynn Liccardo and others. He wrote extensiveley about soaps, and I actually found the blog thanks to someone who posted a message about his post on legacy characters, where Kay Alden commented. He also wrote about General Hospital's Luke and Laura and how Guza didn't use that opportunity the way he should have. I posted the links in the thread that discussed GH's a la 24 storyline.

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Sylph

First of all, how do you move forward if you spend all your time redoing the undoing of a redoing of an undone thing? I just say MOVE ON! It's a slippery slope. McTavish came in and "undone" the Lavery/Curry/Stamp storyline. She came in and "undone" the 1973 Abortion storyline. Now, we spend another tenure redoing and undoing more undone storylines?! I believe Alden's on the right track. Just tell stories from this point forward.

Secondly, where is everybody getting the fact that Jeff Martin's DNA wasn't tested? I ask legitimately because I stopped watching around the time Jeff came on to maybe once a week before tuning out completely for a couple of months. So, am I to understand that after all the pains the writers (McHackish) took to try and make a scientifically impossible event happen, and all the DNA tests that McHack used... she failed to have a cross reference DNA test between Josh and Jeff -- and that everyone, including Josh (who, if I remember, wasn't too happy with have Erica and Jeff as parents at first), just blindly accepted that? Doesn't that seem kind of odd? DNA test after DNA test after DNA test after DNA test on this show -- but this crucial one, they just gloss right over?

I noticed she said 'Where The Heart Is' was the first soap opera she thoroughly enjoyed. At the time, Claire Labine and Paul Avila Mayer were headwriters, I wonder if Kay ever met them or was a fan of RH . . .

And LMAO about her attitude towards Megan and Dena's writing.

Yes, she mentioned in one of her interviews that at the time WTHI was cancelled she would never watch The Young and the Restless (although she said in this interview she watched it from day one), she was really mad when they cancelled Where the Heart Is. She really loved that shows.

And Claire had much words of praise to say about Kay Alden. It's obvious, too, Kay would never had watched WTHI hadn't she liked the writing.

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Sylph

I also loved how she praised Bill Bell, Agnes Nixon, and Irna Phillips and went onto say how these people were the three biggest icons of soap opera history. Also, how the shows they've created have veered so far off from their creators intent.

Also, makes me mad when she sad Agnes Nixon gets some things though, but isn't able to make her voice heard on the shows she created.

Well, I'd say that it's imminent that shows change their feel and style over the years. The problem is that they changed the creators' intents in a wrong way. Many HWs destroyed many good things the shows were about. I don't think anyone would complain had the HWs changed the show for the better.

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Sylph

Thanks for the link to the interview! I downloaded it and will listen to it later.

I love reading about soap writers or listening to them talk.

Glad to see others who are obsessed about soap writers too. LOL

You're welcome, Toups. Can't wait to hear your thoughts

Wow, how did I miss this thread before?

I can't wait to listen to the entire thing!

I wonder the same thing. But in the end you found it, Kennylicious.

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Sylph

Secondly, where is everybody getting the fact that Jeff Martin's DNA wasn't tested? I ask legitimately because I stopped watching around the time Jeff came on to maybe once a week before tuning out completely for a couple of months. So, am I to understand that after all the pains the writers (McHackish) took to try and make a scientifically impossible event happen, and all the DNA tests that McHack used... she failed to have a cross reference DNA test between Josh and Jeff -- and that everyone, including Josh (who, if I remember, wasn't too happy with have Erica and Jeff as parents at first), just blindly accepted that? Doesn't that seem kind of odd? DNA test after DNA test after DNA test after DNA test on this show -- but this crucial one, they just gloss right over?

In short, yes. The only DNA test on Josh that was referenced on screen was Josh and Erica which was said to be a perfect match. From there, Tad and Joe (brilliant Martin's that they are) decuded from the fact that Greg and Josh weren't a match, Josh and Erica were and Josh's birthday, that he was the fetus. There has never been, and trust me I followed every scene of this storyline with intense scuritiny, the mention of a DNA match let alone test between the two has never been mentioned. So yes, in all her genius, Auntie Meg left a loophole. They've always just assumed that Jeff is the father, or perhaps there was an off screen test, I don't know...they just never mentioned it on screen.

Edited May 9, 200718 yr by Kylie

-->

The success of Y&R is more important than saving any other soap. If it's ratings fall with the rest of the pack or worse we are totally screwed. I just hope someone looks at what Latham is doing and gets rid of her. They need to follow the classic format of passing the torch onto someone who knows the show. I know Alden/Smith are gone, but why not bring back Trent Jones, Jim Houghton and whoever Alden's successor was?

I've been praying for someone to look at what they're doing ever since Latham came, but I'm not sure if something will happen soon. And I believe Trent will go where Kay goes.

^

Trent's been known to bounce around from soap to soap, prior to joining Y&R. He started off on RH with Labine, I believe, then in the early 90's, he was apart of one of GL's most successful writing teams. I've always wondered why he's never been offered a head-writing position anywhere. He would've been perfect as Y&R's sole headwriter, when TPTB decided that Alden and Smith weren't good enough anymore.

When all is said and done in the long-run, CBS, Sony, and Bell Productions will realize the mistake they've made by giving Latham so much power. Y&R's widely considered the jewel of CBS' Daytime crown, when the luster starts to diminish significantly, they'll be more than happy to make a creative change.

Also, CBS was so stupid for not recommending Smith and Alden to ATWT or GL. Hell, I wouldn't mind if Smith goes back to B&B, he was probably at his best there.

-->

Since Alden and Jack Smith left there has been such a steep turn in the show. All of the praise and control Latham gained is clearly because they were there fighting to maintain the integrity of the show. I will always defend my defense of Latham last year because the show was half decent. Now that she's by herself? Awful!

My thinking has been along the same lines.

I wouldn't say the show now is "awful" (esp relative to other shows), but I thought one year ago was AMAZING! The pacing was better, the dialog crackled, there were new beats (like Victor's epilepsy) that brought new and unpredictable stories. Even the business of having John Abbott go through a confused state, and Nikki get shot--while all the while the _real_ story was Victor's head injury--was a brilliant red herring.

There is no doubt that the end of 2006 and beginning of 2007 have been dreadful. Pheila is the worst story, and the Reliquary was pretty bad too (although I personally _liked_ the Jana reveal). I'm in the minority, in that I like what Amber has brought to the show...but I didn't like Kay's sudden-grandson either (and I like that this is now appearing to be a con-job).

I was always fearful that with Alden and Smith left, it would be revealed that Y&R's excellence last year was a COLLABORATION between the old and new regimes. This has been confirmed.

A big pet peeve for me (also mentioned in this thread) is that the dialogue is so different from day to day...some days crackling, other days boring. There was a consistency of voice under all the previous writers that has now been lost.

I would say that the current regime is really not bad, and there are flashes of pure pleasure in almost every episode. But, there are also deeply concerning twists (e.g., the musical campaign chairs; Nikki's sudden devolution into an offspring-eating witch; the Clear Springs umbrella story popping up out of nowhere; Victor's vendetta against Jack--for the first time--seeming completely unmotivated and shallow). If CBS/Sony/Bell had just managed a moderate course...Latham in charge, but with Alden and/or Smith retained, I honestly think this show would have continued to move in the direction of 5.0 ratings (there were days as high as 4.6....).