I love SON because of the diverse views of the shows and I feel that you all have the most enlightened discussions. Also, because of my thoughts, I'm sure there are many people who have the power to make changes who read this site, too, so when I post something negative, it is not to be mean at all but simply to let that response be entered into the picture.

Days is the only soap I watch so that is my focus. It is so much better in various ways, but for the speed it's ending stories, and bringing in new characters, losing familar actors, etc. it will take time for the transition to be complete and the true Hogan days are revealed. I'm looking forward to that very much.

Just so I have this straight in my mind -- OLTL is keeping it's disaster of a HW and an EP while the audience flees and adopting a six month strategy to hope to improve things while they continue to engage in the same pattern that has the audience fleeing and they are losing three of their most talented actors?

GO GUIDING LIGHT GO!!!!

FINALLY ITS #6 in total viewers!!!!!

DID ANY ONE NOTICE THAT GL WAS #4 on Friday in total viewers???? Right behind Y&R, B&B, ATWT!!!!! IT BEAT DAYS, GH, AMC, and OLTL!!!!! GL is on an upward swing!!!! I predict GL will be #4 soap by the end of November.....and you can all take that to the bank!!!

Yep Cal and ABC is keeping its disaster of a president. Let's look at it from Frons' point of view. He doesn't care about those shows. He damn sure doesn't care about the viewers.

So he takes a PC strategy and knocks the size of the acting staff down to nothing. Keeps ME, Kamar, JPL and a few others and focuses the show on them. There is no cost to the show so it makes a profit in spite of its dreary ratings.

Daytime is just a cash cow for ABC. Cut the staff and the bucks continue to come in, and the network is just fine. There isn't anything else they can put in those time slots and what the heck as long as someone watches. It's not like ABC can make any claim about anything that is on during the daytime being any good.

As long as he keeps ME, REG and a few others the shows ratings won't drop too far below 2.0. They won't go above that either. The show will suck. Very few people will watch it, but he brings in a buck. That's all that matters. That really is the beauty of campy ol Passions. It doesn't have ratings, but it has a pretty small staff so it makes money.

The bottom line with Frons is he flat does not care about those shows or the viewers. There is no point pretending otherwise.

Total Viewers

1. Y&R 5,354,000 (-114,000/+84,000)

2. B&B 4,062,000 (-77,000/-63,000)

3. ATWT 3,210,000 (-100,000/-238,000)

4. GH 3,073,000 (-74,000/-272,000)

5. DAYS 2,993,000 (-153,000/-150,000)

6. GL 2,906,000 (-22,000/-132,000)

7. OLTL 2,905,000 (-122,000/-257,000) <------ record low

8. AMC 2,845,000 (-139,000/-139,000) <------- record low

9. PSNS 1,779,000 (+44,000/-310,000)

Wow can't believe that every show lost total viewers except for Passions. That is not good at all, and some shows lost a lot.

Question....when does the official new television ratings season start?? Cause every year around the end of September, doesnt Nielsen up the amount of viewers/households that a ratings point counts for? So if we are in the new season (which we should be, right?), that would mean these low ratings still might mean viewership isn't down as much as it seems. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm probably just wishful thinking, haha. Toups or anyone else, any news on the new season and what ratings points equal?

I'm not sure about daytime, but the primetime season started on September 18.

The ratings for the beginning of Hogan Sheffer's tenure as headwriter confirm my suggestion that he can't and won't improve DAYS ratings overnight. After all, DAYS didn't get into its pre-Hogan era mess overnight and fans shouldn't expect it to be cured overnight.

I also agree with the posts that mention that the average non-internet surfer fan isn't interested in who the headwriter or executive producer is. They simply want to be entertained. If they quit watching because of James Reilly's material, that viewer isn't going to be saying, "Oh, that guy who got rave reviews and Emmy Awards as a headwriter at ATWT is now writing DAYS, so I think I'll start watching the show again."

GO GUIDING LIGHT GO!!!!

FINALLY ITS #6 in total viewers!!!!!

GL has been #6 in total viewers for at least 2 weeks (3 including these current ratings) in the last 2 months. And out of all the soaps that dropped, it lost the least amount of viewers.

Total Viewers

1. Y&R 5,354,000 (-114,000/+84,000)

2. B&B 4,062,000 (-77,000/-63,000)

3. ATWT 3,210,000 (-100,000/-238,000)

4. GH 3,073,000 (-74,000/-272,000)

5. DAYS 2,993,000 (-153,000/-150,000)

6. GL 2,906,000 (-22,000/-132,000)

7. OLTL 2,905,000 (-122,000/-257,000) <------ record low

8. AMC 2,845,000 (-139,000/-139,000) <------- record low

9. PSNS 1,779,000 (+44,000/-310,000)

SJ you are right about GL losing the least. I was looking at the fact that every show but Y&R is down in viewers from last year too. And a lot of viewers for the most part too. Taking those numbers and adding/subtracting this is the total viewers lost at this point:

From Last Week:

-757,000 viewers

From This Time Last Year:

-1,477,000

The last time Rick did an update we were up over a million viewers from that time last year. Now we are down a million viewers from this time last year. That is not good, esp. considering that in October thousands of people in Mississippi and Louisiana still were without coverage of some of the soaps.

Look at those teen girl numbers for ABC. Wow.

Also, aside from Y&R and B&B (which is a given that they'll always be #1 and 2 respectively), GL has lost the least amount of viewers in the past year compared to all the other soaps. Unfortunately, those people who are so sure that GL will be cancelled in a year or so don't consider these analyses. I've been paying attention to the numbers for a while and GL, despite it's craptastic budget cuts and the pessimistic air that surrounds it when people talk about it, has the most loyal viewership out of all the soaps.

I've just seen the 12-17 demo numbers and wow..GL's at #3?

Oh my...

Friday's (10/6) Total Viewers:

1. Young and the Restless 5,790,000

2. Bold and the Beautiful 4,399,000

3. As the World Turns 3,562,000

4. Guiding Light 3,151,000

5. Days of Our Lives 3,108,000

6. General Hospital 2,896,000

7. One Life to Live 2,863,000

8. All My Children 2,849,000

9. Passions 1,638,000

I didn't even notice Friday's ratings! That was one awesome show, though. Go, GL!

Regarding DAYS, you must remember that the average NON-internet viewer doesn't care about (or isn't aware of) headwriter changes. They won't tune in for "Hogan's first week". Us internet posters are more atune to the improvements in the show because we know the backstage politics behind it. And we also tend to notice stuff (better dialogue, more character-driven scenes, fewer flashbacks etc.) that doesn't make a big impression on the average viewer.

Jane's point about losing the core audience is a valid one. Reilly and Langan alienated hundreds of thousands of long-term viewers with their gimmicks, pimping of the younger set and general ignorance of viewer opinion. Bringing them back or replacing them with a new generation of viewers will be a painstaking process. It's not something Hogan can achieve in a few weeks or even a few months. The big question is whether NBC will give him the time he needs to accomplish this. If they expect sudden ratings boosts, they are setting him up to fail.

I suppose the only silver lining with these bad numbers is that they are being reached on a budget that is 30% cheaper. A 2.5 rating on a $60 million budget looks better than 2.5 rating on a $90 million budget. NBC are probably still banking on improvements, though.

The only reason why I don't see Jane's point as a valid point Ponz is because Days was at a 2.7 most of the summer during the transition when barely anything was going on. I know Days does better in the summer and worse in the Fall number-wise historically but the show has really done nothing most of the summer. It was good but mostly dragging until the end of August when stories started picking up and ending. It seems since school started Days has done terrible despite all the payoffs and great writing. I think there is a good amount of core audience still out there but the show was at a 2.7 the whole summer so I think this has more to do with school and going back to normal, non-summer routines rather then a core audience issue.

We'll see. I will go with Mitch's approach and just enjoy the show and hope for the best.

The only reason why I don't see Jane's point as a valid point Ponz is because Days was at a 2.7 most of the summer during the transition when barely anything was going on. I know Days does better in the summer and worse in the Fall number-wise historically but the show has really done nothing most of the summer. It was good but mostly dragging until the end of August when stories started picking up and ending. It seems since school started Days has done terrible despite all the payoffs and great writing. I think there is a good amount of core audience still out there but the show was at a 2.7 the whole summer so I think this has more to do with school and going back to normal, non-summer routines rather then a core audience issue.

PR, if you're comparing a 2.7 to a 2.5, then that analysis is reasonable. But there isn't a massive difference between a 2.7 and a 2.5. Neither rating is going to have the NBC suits wetting themselves. The sort of improvement I'm talking about is the improvement necessary to make DAYS a financially viable show in the long-term. This is purely my speculation but I would imagine that is somewhere in the 3.0- 3.5 range. This is a very tough ask for Hogan and something that can only be achieved through long-term quality writing. In the meantime, we may have to tolerate the show being stuck in this narrow 2.5-2.7 range. I agree that the numbers are a poor reflection of quality at the moment. But that is part of the fallout of having a HW who disregarded fan opinion for 3 straight years.

Regarding AMC, I think the ratings were low for the 6-character episode for a couple of reasons. In the first place, some of us who read that Tad would be revealed as the killer decided not to watch that day. I only ended up catching it on Soapnet because of the internet response to the episode. Secondly, Babe & Josh were one of the featured couples. As a Babe hater, she brings down every episode she's in imo. Thirdly, even though Zendall have a rabid online fan base, the ratings have never risen for shows where they're together. I think it will be interesting to see if the new Zendall storyline coming up brings in any new or lapsed viewers; I doubt that it will. Finally, the writing has been so bad and so many characters are not being their true selves, that it has been hard to stick with this show under McTavish. I hope ABC will smarten up and fire that hack ASAP!