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Okay, thank you, that makes more sense -- I just remembered something about a note and there being something a little more cloak-and-dagger about his story than what I'd first assumed, which was just that he saw Malone and was like, "Time to leave again." But getting a note from someone trying to get him over to OLTL's timeslot competitor feels...odd? Then again, I guess it's not like there were that many soaps left in NY. I definitely understand the problems with their post-rape dynamic and why both RH and SH would have been deeply uncomfortable. But I always gave Malone the benefit of the doubt, that he wasn't actually planning a Luke/Laura romance but going for...some other kind of story? About what can or can't be forgiven or something something about the human spirit or grace or the question of redemption that may have worked better in a book and not on an ongoing soap opera where the lead actor was already being traumatized by fans asking him to rape them next. I'm actually at episodes not long before Spring Fling in my first-ever watch of 1993, and I definitely don't get the sense from the writing that there was even an inkling in Malone's mind that he'd get around to pairing them after the rape, which fits obviously because RH was just supposed to be short-term. Todd's a misogynistic louse; his function as lead gang rapist is clear and foreshadowed well; and there's no hinting at any layers to him or to the gross way way he, as Jason says at one point, treats Marty like garbage. I haven't seen RH in anything pre-OLTL. I know how good he is on OLTL. I just wonder at what point it became clear to TPTB that they'd made a horrible, horrible mistake casting him as Rapist #1. How they chose to try to course-correct is of course controversial, and I'm not here to defend it. I just want to know when they realized they screwed up, and that they could have cast any number of good-looking young actors to play "cute guy who is actually a monster" for a handful of weeks before getting killed off and that they should have put RH in some other role that wouldn't require trying to redeem him from unspeakable acts. Or maybe RH on OLTL only happened the way he did because he was playing Todd. I do remember the rape revisit of 2003 and 2004. At the time, I thought Malone was just trying to ground TSJ's version of the character in Todd's history of rape. But I think it makes more sense that he was planning it for RH and RH said nope and bailed. (As an aside, when I started watching OLTL, I remember chatter on message boards about RH supposedly hating the pairing with Blair and hating working with KDP. But RH's various comings and goings and what motivated them seems like serious evidence to the contrary.) RH shocked me with his return to OLTL, not in how committed he was to the material, because he usually, to me, seemed committed even if he maybe didn't personally care for the story, but in, like you said, his zen approach to the character. It was like a weight had lifted off his shoulders. I wonder what did it. TSJ had the tools to make a new version of Todd work, and like you said, that was evident early on. But he was apparently a poor fit for a soap opera role. It's a little shocking the degree to which he chose to express his displeasure behind the scenes. Like, buddy, I know you were upset Dan Gauthier was fired -- I was upset, too! But it's like when that happened (coupled with I guess not getting paired with REG?) he just gave up on the show and gave up on playing any actual semblance of the character he was hired to play, just like the writers gave up on writing any recognizable version of Todd. Okay, I won't ask any more, but that does make me feel more settled I guess about not getting to see more of them when I started watching, which was when they were both still on the show. I haven't seen them in any real way in any of the periods I've watched so far, but at some point I'll get that part of the '80s. Thank you to you and @DRW50 for the cast info-- I'm 90% convinced I read something once about Tuc being attached to that pilot, but I just did a Google search and can't find anything. Maybe it was in one of the magazines. But the memory is so strong that whenever I remember that pilot exists, he's one of the ones I think of. It'll be embarrassing if I'm wrong! But I might well be. @slick jones, you are welcome!

As much as I appreciated that that story did follow through with making RH's Todd the real deal (there was no coming back from TSJ's version of the character after raping Marty yet again and trying to steal Starr's kid and probably a bunch of other things I've managed to block out), I couldn't stand the CIA stuff. As you said, it was silly. I didn't even remember the signet ring part, actually. Speaking of RH, I have a vague memory of listening to a podcast, maybe during COVID, where RH talked about departing. My memory on it is fuzzy, but maybe you or someone remembers and can confirm -- I think I remember him actually saying that someone at OLTL passed him a note warning him that Malone was going to pair Todd and Marty and that RH needed to leave as soon as he could, which was how he ended up going to ATWT. I can't remember which podcast this might have been -- I was listening to tons of podcasts around that time -- or if I have the details right, but that has always stayed with me because I hadn't heard that part, that someone had warned him. In my memory, he didn't actually say who it was that warned him. Now I'm wondering if I made it up. But I also have a memory tied to that of Malone admitting, either on that same podcast or maybe on another one, that he really was going to pair Todd and Marty, and that shocked me, because I'd always been convinced that he never would have gone there. Those are good points about the gothic aspect, style elements, and similar tropes. I guess it's the execution that bothers me so much, which would have been some factors outside of his control but also in his control. I've read about the 13 Bourbon Street pilot. Wasn't Tuc Watkins supposed to star? Was anyone else going to be in it? Oh, I was hooked during Malone II, even if I didn't like all the stories. I couldn't remember which writer did the Cristian twist but it doesn't surprise me that it would have been Higley. Wow. Well, my first guess was FH because all I've ever heard about JDP backstage is that he was noisy when he didn't like something, but maybe by 2001 he had mellowed/maybe due to his friendship (I'm going to assume they were friends) with FH, he wouldn't have wanted to be very on the record about no longer wanting them to work together? I'll go with that guess. Also because I think I remember he liked Max and Roxy, and IIRC that was where he went next. Tori is also my favorite alter. She's the most fun to watch. October 10, 2005. They think it's Margaret, I believe. I couldn't bring myself to do more than just click around the episode on Youtube. You're welcome! She looks good.

Thank you for those clips and also to @DRW50 for tagging me! I feel like I can't comment with any confidence on the stories/characters of the Paley Center clip because I know so little about that era, but it was a fascinating watch, getting to see GS as Viki, seeing Victor, and imagining whatever would have been going on storyline-wise. Got a little chill when the nurse was speaking for some reason I can't really pinpoint. I do have a question about the Paley Center -- do we know how many episodes they actually have in their archives? And the clips we get are just from people who manage to get clips on their phone when watching? And this is probably a naive question, but what would be the reason the Paley Center wouldn't be able to, say, put the episodes on their website for fans to view? Is it a rights thing or that they just don't think it needs to be a priority? And does anyone know at what point ABC started keeping episodes instead of (what I'm assuming they did which was) recording over/destroying old episodes? That news segment was also a cool watch, especially as they said Harry Carson was a soap fan, so that must have been a dream come true for him. That's another era that I'm not familiar with, but I did recognize Rae! I also found this picture on the NFL website: I have some other things I want to reply to, but I want to post this now to see if I did the picture properly.

I do remember the line but didn't remember the date of death being changed. I do think all things considered that it works better to go with the more impactful version -- that he died in the '70s. Nothing about the Heart of the Lord story was worth keeping and in fact didn't really even affect anything going forward from what I can remember. It happened and then they all more or less moved on. I hadn't heard that about the idea for Dorian seducing Joey with CM in the role -- that is such a wild idea. I had heard before that Joey was the original plan for the gay teen, and I've always been sorry they didn't go with that. I'd have sacrificed Joey/Dorian and definitely Joey/Kelly (not a fan) to be able to give that story to such a core character. I watched that not too long ago for I think only the second time ever, and it was chilling. I cannot imagine how much more terrifying it would have been to not know it was the alters. Speaking of the alters, I was thinking the other day that out of all the impressive turns ES got to play when switching between them, I think the most impressive for me is Tori-as-Viki because Tori, for my money, is the one who manages to come the closest to being able to imitate Viki, but there are still the subtlest indications that something is still off. There is a moment I'm thinking of right now where Tori manages to take control during one of the various freak-outs, still pretending to be Viki, and the only way I could tell it still wasn't Viki was something about her eyes. I haven't actually watched the whole episodes of 1994, just clips, though I will at some point, and I'll be looking to see what is hinted. Susan Batten is really good as Luna, even if Luna and the crystal/goddess/new age-y stuff isn't necessarily my thing on its own...and seems worse in the '93 episodes I'm watching right now than in the '95 episodes, where I find her kind of eye-rolling these-people-in-my-life-are-making-stupid-crazy-decisions sentiment almost endearing. I think my distaste for Max is probably mostly to blame. Even in the 1989 episodes, when he pops up to yell at Gabrielle about Al, I'm rolling my eyes/muttering at the screen for him to shut up, etc. What were the BTS reasons in 2002? So, even though my early memories of watching OLTL in late 2002 are fuzzy, because I was mostly just catching pieces of episodes as they were airing before GH while getting very limited information from my roommate (who knew OLTL basics but didn't care about it because she was primarily a GH fan) when I asked her questions about which characters were the main pairings based on which people I saw interacting in scenes together at the time ("No, that's Bo, and he and Viki are not a couple. I think she's married to his brother" "No, Cassie and Todd are not a couple. He's with Tea or Blair"), I do remember the "RETURN OF THE EMMY-WINNING WRITING TEAM" promos for Malone II and the hype online and in the magazines. I knew it was a big, big deal even if I didn't have the benefit of having seen Malone I, and even though I hadn't watched enough of Gary Tomlin's OLTL to hate anything I was seeing. So basically everything I watched Malone and Griffith do, I was on board and started watching really faithfully. Like you, I see the creativity, and I admire the attempts to try different things. I was glued to the creepy Mitch-takes-over-Llanfair story, Dorian teaming up with Blair/Jessica/Lindsay against Mitch, David coming back, the Walker/Todd stuff, and Kelly/Kevin's marital troubles. I think I was initially on board for the Santi story before that went totally off the rails and ruined Antonio for me for good. Didn't care for Heaven Can Wait. "Flash"/Joey pretty much ruined what should have been a good re-entry for Sarah. They talked a game about CJ, and he never materialized. So much potential and so much screwed up. I know a lot of problems would be down to network/Frons interference, but some of it feels too wild/weird for that and like the stories just got away from them somehow. It's also really hard to watch these episodes from the '90s and remember what was going on in 2003 and think that it's the same writing team. There's so little overlap in terms of quality and tone. The Vegas are a good example because they had ample focus in both eras. But in the '90s the Vegas were grounded in real, serious stories (Angel Square, Cristian/Jessica, gang violence, police corruption, Antonio and Andy's fight for justice). In 2003-2004, the Vegas got instead a convoluted story about an international drug cartel, a treasure hunt, various people being brainwashed/drugged, and constantly shifting family ties: Antonio's father is this man -- no, he is this man. Dorian is lying about Adriana's parentage -- no, she's not lying, or maybe she is lying, but not in the way you thought she was lying. This woman is Antonio's mother -- no, this other woman is Antonio's mother. Cristian is Cristian -- no, he's not Cristian. Or maybe he is Cristian. Tico? Sonya? I don't even remember how they fit in. I just know by the end it was hard to care because everything kept changing.

Thank you -- I wonder then what, if any, other story threads might have been planned to take place around the earlier/originally planned version of the DID, or if it was going to be a more contained story than what we got later, which may well have been at least part coincidence...at least as far as the Todd angle, which I know various parties have said only happened because someone realized they'd named him "Manning." But given Dorian/Jason, I can also see there being a plan early on to at some point send Dorian after a (by then recast) Joey. I'm glad I've never been that invested in who really killed Victor, if that was Victor, etc., because the various do-overs and re-writes would irritate me. The "Heart of a Lord" story was shortly after I started watching, so I didn't know enough backstory to be either excited or outraged when it turned out he was alive or "alive." To me, he was just another back-from-the-dead character. I do remember Dorian sometime later casting suspicion on whether or not that was even Victor, and I think that was RS's idea, right, for the reason you state? Oh, this is great to know. I'm excited to get to those scenes. I'm at spring '93 at the moment, so it won't be long now. Exactly -- the first time I did get to see anything from '95, this would have been first as clips, I was taken aback by the tone because it was so unlike what I knew from soaps. Viki not really being Viki touched so many different stories in varied ways, and the dramatic irony was through the roof. I loved it. I was so taken aback by that grave kissed that I gasped. Bo/Sarah is happening in the 1989 episodes I'm watching, and I just don't get it. And isn't Bo/Cassie right after that? No thanks. Yeah, it really is the repetitive nature of those scenes that bothers me more than anything else: Tina says she can't decide because she loves both men; Cord yells at Tina because she let Cain around the kids; Tina asks Cord what happened to him in captivity; Cord refuses to say and just yells more; Cain mopes. It was also pretty obvious to me early on that she was going to end up picking Cain, so there's no suspense either...just delaying the inevitable. Max rarely works for me -- not with Luna, not with Blair, not with Maggie. Reading about how JDP handled or rather didn't handle it when he was unhappy behind the scenes never helped my impression of Max's character during the years I've watched either. I'd be curious to see more of him and Gabrielle, though. I've only seen little bits here and there, and where I am right now in 1989 they're pretty bitterly fighting over Al and he's chasing after Megan, and I know somehow I've seen or read about some scene where he is on the stand in some case and he admits to loving Gabrielle, maybe upsetting Megan? in the process? I don't know if that's pre-1989 or if that's still coming. The clip must have been in a promo, because I remember it vividly. But even though I haven't seen a lot of them together, I can see in what I have seen that JDP and FH have chemistry, and their characters seem to suit each other. Max should be with a schemer and not a saintly Luna/Maggie type, and the problem with Blair is that he really does think she's beneath him and treats her accordingly and she lets him, which is gross. Then again, I'll admit my ignorance here...maybe he treats Gabrielle the exact same way, in which case I'd need some other reason to find them more palatable than Blair/Max. I'll add, though, on the subject of Max, that it was a mistake to kill Al (who should have gotten to continue his friendship with CJ as adults -- the next generation of Max/Cord) and a further mistake to never do anything with Frankie and Leslie. JDP's payoff for all the scenes of Max changing diapers or whatever should have been his positioning as the rare non-Buchanan/non-Lord patriarch, with stories organically coming from the trouble he and his kids would find themselves getting into around town. I remember that bit -- that was a great little character moment.

Thank you! I did know CR's farming accident affected things...I think I may have read that here lurking in this thread at some point. I'd usually come here to try to see if anyone was commenting on something I was watching at the time; I finally made an account to keep better track. Now I'm wondering if CR's accident pushed back the DID story as well. Though it's really hard to imagine Viki's alters not happening amidst everything else that was going on in 1995 (David/Tina, Todd, Joey/Dorian). Those threads were perfectly set up, and it's one of the few periods of the show I've watched where I feel like you could drop a non-soap watcher in right in the middle and have them hooked by the mystery and horror of it. I'd like to believe Linda Gottlieb did go and talk to Agnes Nixon about it, but, like you said, who knows. I've only read pieces relevant to what I was watching or already familiar with at the time. I need to sit down and read the whole thing. Even if actors or others behind the scenes mess up the details, sometimes the way they mess them up is telling.

Thank you for the welcome and the kind words!! I love anything to do with the newspapers and wish more had been done with them in the show's final years. So far I've seen just a little of early 1989, and it's been fascinating. Not that all the stories are landing for me, but the whole vibe of the show is so different from what I'm used to, featuring so many characters that I know are going to vanish from the canvas in anything from a few months to a couple of years. And what's frustrating is that I would have kept quite a few of them and am sorry they're going to be leaving. Actually, I've got a copy of that oral history of OLTL book that was published maybe a decade ago? that your post is reminding me I should probably be reading as I'm watching, because I know very little in terms of concrete details about the Rauch years, except that I understand he was divisive. Thank you!! Regarding the visions, my skin is already crawling. I haven't watched fall 1994 yet. Has Malone or ES or anyone said when they landed on eventually revealing that Victor raping Viki was the cause of the DID? That is, would they already have been planning to go there as they were setting up Viki leaving Clint for Sloan?

Hi, all -- long-time on-and-off lurker, first actual post. Currently skipping around 1989, 1993, and the mid-to-late '90s, depending on my mood. None of those are years I watched live, because I didn't start watching until 2002. I was already familiar with the stories of the later Malone years and generally familiar with anything past that just from online discourse, so much of what I'm watching isn't a surprise (except for 1989, which is very much a different world in a lot of ways), but I'm having a lot of fun actually seeing much of what I only ever read about before and getting to form my own opinions about what was working and what wasn't. Regarding 1993, the beginning of Bo and Nora has been a real highlight for me, which surprised me because I wouldn't say I was really invested in them when I was watching live (remember this is 2002 onward -- I think when I started he may have been with Gabrielle?), except in the "they should be together because they're supposed to be together" kind of way. I'm not sure I ever saw clips of anything of theirs from the '90s except their wedding before this. The chemistry, the fact that they started as friends, the slow burn, that they're both shown privately wrestling with their feelings -- everything is working for me, and I'm excited for what I know is coming. Another thing I wasn't prepared for is how much I hate Viki/Sloan. Active, alternating-between-rolling-my-eyes-and-muttering-at-the-screen hate. Love your banner, Maxim. And knowing that part of this is that he's reminding her of her father doesn't make it an easier watch either. (She's supposed to actually imagine one turning into the other at some point, right? If I'm at early '93, have I missed that scene?) I've always been a massive Blair fan, but I wondered when I started 1993 if that was just because of KDP or if it was because of the character. Obviously, I love KDP, but the moment I saw MK's Blair, I adored her, too, and wanted her to get every single thing she has ever wanted, so I guess it is also the character. It didn't matter who she was up against -- Asa, Tina, Cain -- I wanted her to stomp them all. At this point in my watch, she's off-screen, and I'm eagerly awaiting her return, even though I know it's unfortunately going to involve Max. Some quick hits...not really into the Cord/Tina/Cain triangle and the repetitive nature of the scenes. Cord is in bad need of therapy, and I'm assuming he's not going to get it. This is actually the first time I'm seeing Cain (I think he came back toward the end of OLTL's run, but if I was watching that story I must have blocked it out, because I don't remember the details), and if I'd been watching back then, he probably would have been one of my favorites. Another character I'm seeing for the first time, after only having read about him before, is Jason. Full marks. He's great. At this point in my watch, RS is back as Dorian, and she's wonderful, which I already knew, though I hadn't minded getting to see EP's take on the character for the first time. Different from RS's but not bad. As for Marty, I'm enjoying her scenes, but it's hard to figure out how my feelings toward her, and when she is or isn't sympathetic, are influenced by the fact that I know what's coming. I adore Cassie and always wanted her back on screen when I was watching live, but I'm also not invested in Cassie/Andrew, so watching Marty mess with them is, at this point at least, more interesting/compelling than rage-inducing. (Though I also wouldn't say I'm that invested in Viki/Clint, and I do find Sloan actively trying to break up their marriage to be rage-inducing. I'd have to give the reasons for my different reactions more thought.) Not into Alex/Mortimer/Renee, though I do like Alex. That's all for now -- glad to be posting.