Vee

A new (puff) piece on the film. They do seem to indicate the history of the nation will be directly addressed, so I'll give it a chance even if the marketing seems very reductive because I usually love Viola Davis and I've always liked Prince-Bythewood. I was very surprised to discover the one and only Maria Bello of TV and film produced this.

Oh lord.

I agree. And if Y&R wasn't just on cruise control for years now, a strong EP could still potentially push back on all that. I've seen bigger persona non grata come back to soaps in the last 20 years (bigger examples exist but remember when Roscoe Born was blackballed for a few years for walking off AMC?). Won't happen here. I knew that shít would happen, I called it ahead of time and I know it's awful, but it still cracks me up. She was literally there to be the piano player and I just cackled.

I still think the characters/actors and storyline got away from them with the audience, especially the online audience, and now they are trying to walk a cowardly tightrope to keep both elements of the audience on side while Frank struggles to find a way to get back to an OLTL 2008-era teen scene, preferably with Chavez and someone else who is at least off-white. Call it conspiracy theory if folks want, but you can't tell me a white (or all Black!) teen couple in the making would not have at least kissed once by now on a 21st century soap. This isn't 1980 where Doug Marland played the long, long game.

I've been saying for over a year. Don't tell me it's a coincidence!

No, Lily was a victim of incest by her father and the story happened onscreen. The characters were all dropped after because of its content and because ABC was promoting "Something About Amelia". Folks need to read more.

Definitely exists, but also not the answer!

I can't imagine what the common factor is on these pointless subplots that are left running for years. 🤔

It would never have happened on network.

Good lord!

I only fitfully visit these vaults but I know how integral they are. I would simply suggest that, excitement and gratitude aside the more people talk about them in public the more vulnerable they are.

The tribute concert for the late Taylor Hawkins of the Foo Fighters featured many artists including Paul McCartney and Chrissie Hynde, but the showstopper was a very emotional performance from Hawkins' 16-year-old son on drums (video below). There was also a nod on the shared drumset I thought @DRW50in particular might enjoy: Dave Grohl has really been through it over the years.

Oh, I know all about the Joel Grey finale, you don't need to spoiler tag anything about these shows for me lol. The Joel Grey devil weirdness is one of the things I remember reading all about as a kid, and then saw years later.

I'll definitely be curious for your thoughts on S6 and especially the post-Dunne seasons after. You don't need to wait on me getting there though, I've perused this thread at length in the past and of course any poster can opine on whatever you like. Did Dallas ever actually live up to those female-centric ads?

I think it's one thing to sell eps you recorded. It's getting them from a performer who wanted them transferred for posterity and then turning around and selling copies on the market yourself that I take issue with. YMMV.

That's just tacky. And another reason online vaults for shows like these (preferably off YT) are so important.

Shitty but unsurprising from a judge I believe is a Trump appointee. DOJ will appeal and likely get what they want in the end.

Jesus Christ. It's well known that adr is a recurring troll and attention seeker. This is not news. But his post was weeks ago. Donna just resurrected the dude's discussion from many pages back and got this mess going again because she does not bother to read or retain the information presented about this topic by all the other posters. It seems that in her mind this whole forum is basically Donna's stream of consciousness feed, and we are all supposed to just roll with it. But we're not on Usenet anymore. Just let it go and move on with your lives, like I have with Donna's complete inability to function on modern forums in the 21st century.

Also the difference in cultural mores and changing times in the emerging '90s. 90210 was the talk of the playgrounds, dorm rooms or watercoolers, while I didn't even know what Knots was back then. I don't think that was the fault of Knots per se, which did seem like it tried to evolve to each era (unlike Dallas). I just think the age of the '80s Lorimar/Spelling, etc. megasoaps had been left behind. Spelling reinvented his TV slate to suit the new decade, while I believe Lorimar merged and dissolved though I may be off on the timeline or facts.

Whether or not Galadriel could have ever fought in a war thousands of years prior to LOTR seems to be up for dispute among Tolkien fans and scholars, because not all of them seem to agree with you. And whether it's actually feminist or not is not the point - any time any show or piece of media features a female lead or heroine in what could be even suggested as a 'feminist' role, or a minority protagonist, these trolls come calling and start spamming all comments sections and review websites. LOTR is no different, and that's the point of what we're talking about here. Then take it up with the professional reviewers. I for one have not seen many reviews that embrace it with the passion of Jonnysbro. Okay, but who are you speaking for? Because it doesn't seem like the entire LOTR fanbase agrees with you.

Episode 23 (Finishing Touches): Sumner: You don't know what you're talking about. You're making dangerous accusations, serious accusations. You're calling people murderers. Abby: I'm calling us murderers. Lord, Janet Baines' slovenly partner Morrison is back! "Knew I'd wind up back on this ranch someday," he grouses. You know it's a big episode when Peter Dunne writes and David Jacobs directs, and the 'death' of Gary Ewing ripples seismically across the whole canvas. My first thought while watching was that if this is a pre-conceived hoax by the men involved (Mack and Gary) then it's truly sick to do, especially to Val who could easily miscarry. Instead upon hearing that Gary is 'dead' she turns into into a raging wild animal, with an incredible and primal performance from Joan Van Ark with Val pushed just too far. Great stuff. Abby gets the news about Gary from Mack, and Donna Mills' performance is the opposite of Van Ark's - she's shellshocked, not unlike her reaction to Sid's death, and leaves without a word. Abby goes straight to Greg Sumner to rage and blame herself and him, suffocated by guilt, leading to the quote above. Meanwhile, Cathy reacts (somewhat mysteriously but for good reason, in hindsight) by packing up and leaving Westfork immediately. Sure enough, Diana turns up full of nosy and frankly rather blasé curiosity about Gary. She's beyond tone deaf and seemingly eager for more drama. Cathy ignores her (good!) and runs into Abby on her way out. "You've been crying," Cathy snipes as a parting shot as they meet on opposite sides of the road. "Whatever for?" Dunne and Jacobs revisit a lot of the ripple effect material from the aftermath of Ciji's death last season (an episode they also double-teamed, IIRC) - there's another very stark morgue scene with Mack and Morrison talking the coroner about the body. Notably Gary is not seen, supposedly because his head has been blown off. Uh-huh. More things start to pile up which seem quite interesting given the reveal at the end of the hour, as Cathy beelines to Ray's trashed motel room, which seems like a really bad idea at first. I was initially baffled as to why she'd be crying over what she finds there let alone crying for Ray, despite her dysfunctional loyalty to him. Later I surmised the corpse at Westfork must be Ray, and Cathy and Mack may be the only people who know it, hence her booking it off the ranch and heading straight there. I think? Probably? Either way, it was an interesting misdirect early in the episode that only seems illuminated in hindsight (I say that having not yet watched episode 24, I'm just playing Sherlock Holmes). Val has a wonderful reminiscence with Lilimae as her audience - remembering moving to the cul-de-sac with Gary with borrowed furniture, building a life, then throwing Gary out, redecorating it all with her new riches, building a new life and rejecting everything that made her think of him. "I changed everything in this house," she marvels. "Except me." Not entirely true, Val did change, but I take her point. "But this house has never been without him," she confesses. "Because I've never been without him. And I know now I never will." There is absolutely stunning reaction work from Julie Harris here, who I don't think has any lines at all. The tears and understanding in her eyes about Gary and Val is all new. Equally unbelievable work from Donna Mills and little Tonya Crowe, as Abby talks it through with Olivia who's adrift in a rowboat out on her beloved pond at the ranch. Jacobs is fond of wide shots, either of vistas or interior tableaus (including one nice scene with Laura and Greg done only in a distant wide shot through a doorway), and there's a great one here of them just as figures on and by the lake, with Abby kneeling on the shore, rapidly losing her composure, while little Olivia is drifting on the water lost in herself. "I'm gonna need you," Abby pleads with her daughter. "I need you to be with me, I need you to help me now." Olivia angrily rejects her as she shrieks for Gary in the boat then slips into the pond; Abby rescues her as Olivia sobs inconsolably on the dock and it barely seems like acting from Crowe who absolutely howls and bawls. A top moment for both Mills and Crowe. If you ask me Claudia is enjoying playing consoler-in-chief to Aunt Abby a bit too much! I'm not saying she's evil, I'm just saying she is a messy bitch from Hell who lives for drama. And of course she's still giving that poor slob Morrison attitude after everything she put him, Baines and the LAPD through. She's very, very lucky she avoided being charged with obstruction, conspiracy or God knows what else over Chip and Ciji. Get bent, Diana. There's a great, smaller twist this ep with Cathy spending time Laura and her boys at her place (is baby Daniel still played by Constance McCashin's son?). The easy friendship with Laura is both surprising and unsurprising to me; Cathy is more blunt (both physically and mentally) and candid than Ciji, not unlike Laura herself. I frankly think they have a bit more chemistry too. This is the twin Richard should've been worried about. I honestly have more of a sense of who Cathy is now than Ciji, who was more of a dreamy, spunky archetype to me. Mack is apparently just going to sit here with the MacKenzie/Fairgate blended family as they all mourn for Gary over dinner and worry for Val. He is very clearly (and adeptly) lying to all of them about what he saw at the ranch, and it is uncomfortable to watch knowing or at least suspecting that as he smoothly answers the boys' questions while Karen watches. If he planned this ahead of time he is truly gonna be beneath the doghouse. I assume atm he did not; I assume Mack, Gary and possibly Cathy stumbled upon the assassination attempt with Ray caught in the crosshairs with Wolfbridge and then made a snap judgment and impulse decision. Which is still not awesome of any of them to do, but it would be more seemly than this being wholly premeditated (which I don't think would make sense with what we saw last episode either). Val copes with Gary's apparent demise by tending to Ben's gigantic plants some more, until she can't abide anymore. This mostly silent sequence and some others like it earlier in the season and last season, all with Val, were of note to me in the past, and were discussed by longtime KL writer Richard Gollance, again from his interview with Tommy Krasker: Upon heading to Westfork Val runs into Abby, which leads to another of several absolute standout scenes in this ep - there's a few too many to keep up with. Val is there to mourn and sympathize, and that's the one thing a numb Abby can't abide or handle. The anguish inside of Donna Mills as a crumbling Abby tries and fails to keep up her cool facade is spellbinding. Val: I know how much he loved you. Abby: Do you? Val: Yes. And I know that you must love him very much. Abby: No, no. You don't know anything. Val: I know how much you're in right now. I share that with you. Abby: Oh, no. I won't let you share my pain. You have no right to share my pain. Gary's dead and I'm his widow. Not you. Me! You're nothing to him. Absolutely nothing. On paper, without context or performance, this exchange is easily just another soap vixen being the queen bitch. Onscreen, thanks to Donna Mills (and JVA's serene maturity as Val) it is completely different; Abby can barely keep her composure the entire time, and is choking out her words through tears and heartbreak. Her tiny little voice when she says "not you, me!" is pathetic and small. She doesn't believe a word she's saying, she comes off the loser. And you totally feel for her despite all she's done. The scene ends on an angled close-up angle of Val's growing belly, which Abby sees. Do the wheels start turning for her right then and there on Gary and Val? I think so. And of course there's a convenient cut to studio soundstage El Salvador, where poor Ben is shirtless, sweaty and very much alive while nuns from Central Casting mumble vaguely Spanish things. Abby now has very little buffer between herself and Wolfbridge, and is summoned to a mandatory conference with St. Claire which she cannot leave of her own volition. Which leads to this incredible exchange as Abby lays herself bare about Gary for a man who could not care less. Abby: Mr. St. Claire, I loved my husband. You may find that hard to believe. I've had my affairs, I've skimmed profits off the top. A lot of things. I did those things for me. I never did them to hurt him. Because I loved him. He counted in my life. So I'm not gonna rest until I settle the score. St. Claire: Let's get one thing straight, Mrs. Ewing. I don't care if he counted. I don't care that he was killed. I have no sympathy for you. And I have no fear of you. If you want something to count on, count yourself lucky that you're the one who's rich and he's the one who's dead. If this doesn't radicalize Abby against Wolfbridge I don't know what will. She cocoons herself in her finery in front of the raging fire at Westfork, where Sumner pays his respects (again in another beautiful wide shot from Jacobs) and tenderly kisses her cheek. Their relationship has changed. Another fascinating, elliptical moment comes with Mack and Karen as they prep for Gary's funeral. His 'death' resonates with Karen, who's still tender from her own losses and worrying over Val (who, it must be pointed out, also takes time out to pray for Ben's safe return, Gary or no Gary). "I love you," she says simply to Mack. But it unnerves him, deep in his guilty conscience; you can see Kevin Dobson's face shift through several secret chambers inside. His non-sequitur response is fascinating: "You look so nice." Karen sees it, senses something. So there's a service at Westfork but with no Lucy? No Ewings? Really? Did Mack and Gary keep it that quiet? There's a rare First Brian from Tremors sighting, and even he's crying over Gary. Even Jason No. Whatever is here! Olivia remains an anchor for the show though; they obviously love Tonya Crowe and writing for her. She rushes to Val on sight at the ranch, and her reaction to the news of Val having twins is great: "How'd you do that?" Val genuinely misses her company as they embrace, but Olivia is self-assured: "We'll work that out." We get a few interesting reactions bouncing off that duo - Abby watching them on the outside, while Mack broods over the whole affair. There's a cool scene with Cathy being greeted by the ranch hands - we don't see much of them. Cathy’s very masculine, queered-out funeral suit is amazing, BTW. She explains her rap sheet to Laura and then promptly gets hauled downtown by Morrison for what initially seem like curious reasons. Laura, to her credit, is unfazed and tells Cathy dinner is at 7 at her place. See, if this show was on today Laura and Cathy would 100% happen. I'm here for a Gary/Cathy/Laura/Greg quad. Aww, Eric and Michael kissing Abby. Even Karen is sweet to her when Abby thanks her and Diana for their support. "(Diana) loves her Aunt Abby," she assures Abby. "She loves her mother too," Abby replies. "We're family," Karen promises as they hold hands. "If I can help I want to." Cherish these moments when we get 'em, I guess. Laura and Val get a private moment before the service to once again talk about “when [you and Gary] were seeing each other again”- not quite how I remember it, but okay. Laura drops the bomb on Val about why Gary stood her up, because he wanted her to move on to a better life without him. "He married Abby not because he loved Abby but because he loved you," Laura explains. Again, maybe a half truth IMO given Laura's opinion of Abby, but close enough. Abby, meanwhile, is almost prepared to spill her guts to Mack until she sees St. Claire at the service. I do like the ranch hands following the funeral procession through a meadow choked with leaves. I did not love Mack telling Karen not to 'worry [your] pretty little face about' his investigation. Shut it, Mack. I did laugh at his perturbed reaction to the ranch hand playing acoustic guitar throughout the eulogy. He was not feeling it. They really milked this to fake people out - even the subliminal cuts to Gary at the very end initially are framed as though they're flashbacks from the women who loved him, until the scene fully transitions and we discover they're actually a reveal of the very much alive Gary cooling his heels in police lockup, then passionately embracing a seemingly unsurprised Cathy as the credits roll. I was not expecting that. I am dying to figure out who knew and did what, when and how. Then I'm dying to figure out how long Mack is going to be sleeping in the garage on a cot next to Sid's old toolbelt next season. Onto the finale hours.