Vee

I do see the vision there, but the writing had to support it and it often didn't back then. It could now - 30 years later, lol. It certainly worked for Sean and Laura Wright in 2012-2013, but Carlivati couldn't wait to get back to Roger Howarth.

She definitely didn't always fit. But she always was alive onscreen and entertaining as a villain, and that was enough for a lot of stuff for me back then. My favorite moment of Katherine that I recently revisited is when (IIRC) the Qs learn Brenda is dead. They were mid-argument about something or other and having some party with a cake set up, and as the family processes it and grieves Katherine simply saunters over to the cake and coolly snuffs out the candle, and you can't tell whether she actually has an emotional response or not. That's the button of the whole scene, and that's the character to me. I think if not for Billy Warlock not being an A-lead in the show's eyes and their constant fascination with Sonny and Jason even then, A.J. and Carly would've gone the distance. They still could today (though I would, in my quixotic dreams, still try to get back both Sarah and Sean Kanan).

Yep. He was doing some sort of weird Eurotrash Richard Dreyfuss thing on GH a lot of the time, honestly - it was bizarre and hilarious yet tiresome to watch. Given a halfway normal character (maybe an arrogant doctor a la Patrick Drake) I think he could still be thriving on that show.

I wasn't surprised either in 2001. Jackie's position had been on the wane for some time. The Roy/Bobbie story was deeply unpopular. I felt for both parties, because I actually think A Martinez worked well on the show and especially with both Luke and Laura (who, as we know, rumors persist that they almost tested him with) in terms of basic relationships, before JFP tried to center the show around him and Jensen Buchanan. Roy/Bobbie was just one of those forced pairings Riche tried to put over in '99 that led to her blow-up with Guza and both of them ultimately being x'ed out. They did. Caroline would know better than me (and may have answered by the time I reply here) but IIRC VM quickly realized she was out of her depth and asked them to end it. It was not a secret. Katherine was always unpopular, but as I've said before I don't think it was MBE's fault. I always felt she played that role to the absolute hilt and was fun to watch. Like SN, she was unrecognizable as her DAYS character (and I knew Stefan and Katherine before I knew Patch and Kayla) and made a great villainess. It was expecting us to root for Katherine as a long-term heroine that never worked. I'd welcome undead Katherine back today for a brief stint, though I'd probably be the only one - at least she had real teeth and claws. I actually liked the saga of Brenda's mom (a big question mark for me for years up to that point) but it was too rushed. Re: Bobbie/Carly, I was rewatching some of their late '98 stuff and I actually think it's very believable. They're much closer and warmer after what they've been through that year, but Carly still turns on her nastily when challenged re: Robin and this time Bobbie just shrugs it off and stays above the fray, serene. That works for me and is evolution, however imperfect. Check out 2:55 for a fateful line that Sarah delivers hilariously.

Yes, I remember the flirtation with both brothers in Jason's Quartermaine years. They tested her around heavily. I do think the time Jason and Brenda could've worked was in '02. It was seen as a stroke of genius, you're right, but I just remember thinking people were crazy to not remember the plane crash scenes years ago lol. Frons and his fetish for Alicia Leigh Willis got in the way, along with the network's inability to give Vanessa what she wanted to continue which I absolutely believe she would have done had she been properly compensated with money or time off. OTOH, while they did have serious chemistry I now believe it's probably for the best it didn't happen - I think it would've made Brenda a part of the Guza II-era Mob 4 for good (with Sonny and Carly solid at the time) and she's bigger and better than that, she stands apart. I also think it would've sectioned her off to Jason possibly permanently in the 2000s, and that doesn't work either.

What??

I don't remember Brenda losing all her money lol. Wild. I think Miranda was just one of a series of casting/story blunders by Riche in the latter years of her tenure (Hannah, Jax/Chloe, Jacob Young, Juan, the debatable A Martinez hire lol). But most great EPs (or HWs) have some of those on average. I do wonder if Guza or anyone else had any idea what they were doing with Jason and Brenda at this early date. I doubt it. I remember watching the airplane scenes with them live in '98 and thinking they were obviously going there next, but I was not particularly wedded to either of their prior couples at that time. It didn't shock me when Guza started exploring it again in 2002. Looking at it now, Steve and Vanessa had great chemistry but I kind of think it would've upended the show in probably an unnecessary way - the other couples were more money in the bank.

But if not for the useless extra year we wouldn't have the more healthy and mature Jax/Brenda endgame stuff I remember loving! Although I haven't watched much of it in decades and I am over them today lol. I think Sonny and Brenda is the only game left in town provided he ever changes, which he won't. I can't imagine Guza ever being into the Miranda they ended up casting after he was out the door. What a mess.

I never realized she supposedly looked different. I guess not that different?? Eh. I have no idea what Guza's endgame was with this quartet before he dipped.

I don't either. I thought Lucky literally couldn't stop playing it at one point or something? I guess a VR/ARG video game storyline was ahead of its time but very poorly done lol

November '96. I haven't seen this in 30 years. I was super into Stefan and Bobbie back in the day and it's still beyond me Culliton let it go. From what others have said, correct me if I'm wrong, they were still working from Guza's '96 outlines til December so I tend to count this as technically somewhat semi-Guza, as Karen Harris is still co-head with Culliton, lol. But of course you also already have Culliton's Miranda, miscast with Leslie Horan and taken far from the original planned intent, and the Timoria debacle. So it feels like kind of a mishmash, more than I remembered. It's such a shame how this next year was squandered due to the Sunset Beach situation. Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer. Bobbie and Jackie were always comfort characters to me back in the day as a kid - she was the first thing I hooked into about the show in '93. Whereas it took me awhile back then to warm up to SN/Stefan. I found him fascinating from the start and loved his intricate and gothic relationships with his family (including Alexis) but also found him very spooky and cold, even later on when the totally bungled execution of the actual Stefan/Laura pairing around '98/'99 was sleepy, neutered and listless, while I counted the seconds waiting for LNL to reunite which never quite happened. By his last 3-4 years before exiting in '01 I had grown to like and definitely want better for Stefan. Anyway, Stefan and Bobbie were very sexy to me even at this time, but seeing Bobbie with the Prince of Darkness was tricky for a kid to process lol. Today I have no such compunctions and I adore Stefan. And I think Stefan and Laura (per their scenes in '96) also could and should have been scorching if done right. The Sonny/Brenda stuff is quite good here too. It's such a tragedy what happened to this longtime dialogue staff.

I'll just say I'd forgotten that Stone's death is actually only the midpoint of the episode. That took real balls. The rest being dedicated to the community reaction and a series of codas (like the Luke/Lucky scene) was wonderful. I also loved Sonny's reaction when he came in and just bluntly asks 'is he dead?' while trying to process and function himself, just repeating it over. It felt all too real. Maurice was very good in those days. They had, I just rewatched that stuff. It was played for fun after Lucky and Emily's runaway silliness. I think the Lucy/Kevin stuff was both there to add some lightness but tie in the themes of life changing over time and Lucy maybe having an omen that Stone was about to die. I just assume Jenny hasn't been back in aeons. I know Paul mentioned her a few times and said his scheming ways or other sins drove her and their son away. What's wild is I suspect they intended to have Cheryl Richardson (among others) appear during the original Fluke saga when he was meant to be Bill. They even had someone (Ned?) calling Jenny or Julia IIRC.

I agree, but I think it is his fault that he allows it. He can and will do more when he chooses, was my point above but he doesn't here. It's ridiculous. And yeah, I was surprised they got away with the Robin/Stone moment.

I mean, not to defend FV because I really don't care to but we've heard over the long years at both shows that he is very hands-on on the floor, in the booth, etc. That he'll work over scenes with actors re: intent. But he is also still totally an assembly line and very focused on merely going fast. Peter Miner, one of the great soap directors (going back to Dark Shadows I believe) focused on rehearsal and stylistic flair when possible, reunited with him after retiring from OLTL and said Frank told him 'what you did was great but we just don't have time anymore.' And that's true, to a point. But numerous recent GH actor interviews indicate that when Frank wants to convey narrative or character intent he will tell actors about it on the day. So what's the issue with love scenes? I still think it is a calculation on his part: These are more conservative times, they have even less taping time than before, so FV has decided to gut all lovemaking and just focus on getting those especially in the can and move on. They clearly don't give a shít about many of them when they could do more.

In fairness, I do think some of the love/sex scenes on this show still have some heat - the Dex/Joss stuff is clearly uh, animated on their part, Finola tends to deliver in her material as do Maura, LW, etc. when they get it. Cameron and Cynthia Watros certainly ramped it up when Mulcahey brought some sexuality back to the show, and I would argue that Cameron and Katelyn MacMullen also have some spark and brought some to their tawdry nursery room fúck. Even Kate Mansi and the dayplayer known as Blaze brought some heat to their sex scene earlier this year. But the show definitely isn't intense re: sex and passion as it used to be overall. Most of all, not nearly as much time is usually taken to showing it beyond the early moments or afterglow, versus the explicit lingering you would get back in the day.

It's only because the soaps are so conservative now period that they don't care. Frank just wants to keep his cast intact, probably keep Setton above all as an old OLTL fave and not rock the boat. I've rewatched a lot of classic stuff over this holiday period. People used to mock Tom Hardy and Felicia's horny-ass scenes but they got pretty hot and heavy, from blocking to camerawork (KW practically goes into Matt Ashford's underwear and the camera lingers on her unzipping him with his chest bared, then he does her on the damn kitchen island). Imagine that airing now. Would not happen on Frank's current show. And BTW he didn't used to be this tame at OLTL (or early GH) either. Back in the day on his shows people would still fúck. From Troy and Lindsay hitting it from the back (shout-out to @Darn) to Nash and Jessica to Victor/Todd and Téa's deranged sexcapades. Frank, who is all about survival, has just decided in these times to do a very vanilla, conservative show IMO.

No comment lol

It's all old news, but AFAIC if they don't want to do love scenes that don't look like last week they can both dip. Chase is useless anyway.

It was MVJ's script. She has talked about writing the episode on Twitter.

His wit, self-deprecating humor and easy ability to interact with live horses who eat into Genie Francis' guarantees!

I don't find Cody boring! I think Josh Kelly and occasionally even some of the writing imbues him with just enough personality. Sasha OTOH is rice paper. I do think JK and Alexa have some chemistry and I don't mind them being paired up for awhile as Dante grieves or whatever, but again I'm more concerned about Dominic getting screwed by FV again. It's his time to shine and that includes Dante and Lulu down the line, not him going under the wheels for another OLTL friend of Frank's. And I say that as someone who likes JK and wants Cody to continue on the show (with Tracy!).

See you in 6 weeks, Kin.

Not officially a Thanksgiving episode, but a very important one for the holiday and especially this month and this year. Happy holidays.

I don't think the curly hair suits Carly. I think it's all Laura Wright/Cassie Winslow. But I do think her hair/wardrobe are both often rough these days. Which is a shame because for many years she still looked pristine onscreen.

It literally looks like stuff she brought from home. They used to dress her so well. I guess at least it appeals to Facebook moms/grandmoms.