j swift

How do we discuss so much and neglect the most iconic image of 90s tv?

OLTL's Naomi Vernon, mother of Brad and Samantha, died of an accidental overdose when she feared loosing her husband Dr. Will. I agree with your basic premise that suicide has become verboten territory for soaps, and that does not reflect the actual unfortunate mental health statistics in our culture. The UK soaps have won accolades in recent years for their portrayal of suicide, including being careful not to mention the planning nor the method of suicide (which is key when trying not to trigger those with ideation). Coronation Street had an intriguing story that showed the effect of suicide not just on the immediate family but those in the town. An older female character was given this beautiful speech about how we live in a community, but you don't always know what is happening behind closed doors, which is the essence of what soaps were made of. US soaps have a number of mental health professional characters, so having them deal with the suicide of a client would be a novel plot line. For some reason, long lost relatives, brain chips, and evil twins have played out several times on soaps, without any mention of the use of therapy to resolve these concerns. Depression and Drug dependency are usually solved on soaps by the love of a good man/woman/baby, and those diagnosed with the disorder rarely suffer from ongoing emotional, motivational, or financial issues. Whereas actual issues that effect the lives of fans go unnoticed. Daytime viewers who are watching because they are out of work, or coping with young children, are being done a disservice by not providing stories that could be both relatable and educational.

I agree that Melrose was always superior to 90210, and much less preachy to the audience. And while their seasons were long, sometimes those summer breaks can be brutal to try to maintain the energy from the cliffhanger to the resolve. The movement away from the apartment felt inevitable because once the characters obtained enough success to show the type of glamour that Spelling shows likes to portray, it made no sense that they would still be living in their starter apartments in mid-city. At one point, Amanda was the head of an ad agency, Jo was a major fashion photographer, while Jane ran a design firm, and even though Amanda owned the building, it defied logic that they would stay there. On the other hand, a show about people struggling financially into their 30s would probably not attract many advertisers. So, the writers were between a rock and a hard place (or reality and a Melrose Place, if you'll excuse the pun).

Perhaps what we learned from Melrose Place is that there is a natural cycle to primetime soaps. (1) Season 2 is always better than Season 1, because it takes time for the show to find the right tone (i.e. Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Dallas). (2) They are hard to maintain in quality for more than four seasons, especially after an excellent cliffhanger is poorly resolved (i.e. Dynasty). (3) The magic of the original cast is hard to replace, unlike daytime it is difficult to get an audience to accept new faces after watching for awhile. (i.e. Falcon Crest, Dynasty).

Obviously Wendy was allowed to spin her own narrative, that is why it is a memoir and an interview, but not a documentary. However, I feel like she glossed over much of her radio career. Perhaps the Lifetime audience is not familiar with her radio stories, but most of the juice was left undisclosed. She notes that she was fired from two NYC stations, but she did not mention her alleged off-air fight with Angie Martinez, or the dismissal of her sidekick Charlemagne (aka Charlemagne tha God). I also felt it was unwise for her to state that she was not an addict. I get that she did not enter rehab or sober living by choice, and clearly she is not practicing recovery. However, alcohol and cocaine probably played a role in her miscarriages, and she portrayed herself in the movie as abusing both substances. She received so much support from her audience by admitting that she was living in a sober living house that to go back and correct the narrative at this point makes her seem more suspect, to me.

Was Nina the same age as Jenny, Liza and Greg?

Help jog my memory on Nina. As I recall she was introduced with either an illness (diabetes?) or an injury that was causing her to go blind and required medical intervention, which is how she met Dr. Cliff Warner. I recall a bit of manipulation by Palmer to either lengthen Nina's illness, or maybe he just suggested that she was too ill to begin a love affair. However, once Nina and Cliff finally married, I don't recall that there were any lingering effects of her illness. Did Cliff cure Nina, or was that part of the story forgotten over time? Also, I remember that Nina got married in the Hamptons. But, were the exterior scenes supposed to be Palmer's mansion in Pine Valley, or did fictional wedding party travel to the Hamptons for the event? Finally, when did those terrifying scenes with Palmer, Daisy and the dogs occur? Was it Nina's birthday, her engagement, or just a formal party at Courtland Manor. It had to be before Sybil's murder trial when Nina found out that Daisy was her mother, because didn't Daisy go to the wedding under her guise as Monique (was the last name Gauntiel?).

With all of the recastings it was difficult to keep everyone straight. It was one time that I was grateful for the ol' soap writing chestnut of characters using the full name of the person to which they are speaking (e.g. Dr. Lord what brings you to the hospital?) Given that Dorian and Karen are friendly enough to share a decorator, are we to assume that she wasn't invited to the wedding because of her history with the Wolecks, the Craigs, or Viki (or all of the above)?

Adults finding their biological parents is such a soap staple but it never intrigues me because the ensuing drama always seems to lack motivation. Megan Hathaway, Renee DuMonde, Dianna Colville, Brandon Walker, Chloe Lane, Daniel Jonas, Jessica Blake, Eve Donovan, Donna Craig, and Bo Brady didn't know at least one of their birth parents until they were adults. I don't know if John Black ever really found out who was his father. In any other situation Jack would point to Patch and tell Gwen (a) finding your father does not automatically entitle you to inheritance rights, and (b) finding your father doesn't automatically mean you are entitled to his loyalty. Then, Chad Dimera would stand up and remind everyone that he didn't know who his father was until a couple of years ago. At least when Brooke Hamilton found out that she was Bob Anderson's daughter she had a motive for her evil ways because she wanted to own Anderson Manufacturing; Jack Deveraux doesn't have any family wealth left to steal. In fact, for a good portion of Gwen's life most people thought Jack was dead.

I was just thinking about what an odd Kardashian-like coincidence it was that all of Victor Lord's illegitimate children's names began with T; Tony, Tina, and Todd.

I'd never seen the prior Dorians, but my impression was that she was de-SORASed by the time she was played by Robin Strasser to be the same age as Viki. The earliest Dorian seemed older and more mature than Viki and would not have be suitable as a romantic rival. The scenes with the accountant in 1977 begs the question why Dorian was solely responsible for paying for her sister's care, when Melinda's husband Peter was still a working doctor?

As I recall from The Hershey's visit to The View a couple of years ago, their faith was renewed following Brian's recovering from drugs and alcohol. I fully support anyone who uses faith to get through a tough time. However, there is nothing worse than a recent convert who tries to impose their will on others. I also despise this type of story where a vocal minority is given a platform to express themselves. I'm sure there are flat-earthers who don't want globes in classrooms, but we don't pay attention because their opinions are unscientific and unwarranted. TMZ elevates these extreme views because they are attached to a person with vague name recognition, as if her response is worthy of debate, when in reality it is the ranting of an uninformed person.

It is fun to think of all of the cultural references that went into the 1977 episodes. After PBS's Six Wives of Henry the Eighth was broadcast in 1970 it created a renewed interest in Tudor design and fashion, including the 1977 hit song Greensleeves about Anne Boleyn, which may have been reflected in Karen's wedding headpiece. Anne Morrow Lindbergh's diaries had been recently published causing a cultural discussion about the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, which may have had an influence on Viki's story. Also, 1976 saw the culmination of the Patty Hearst trial and in 1977 her case was commuted by President Carter that created a public interest in the insanity defense used by women of wealth and privilege which may have been reflected in Cathy Craig's involvement in the Rielly's kidnapping.

Wasn't Dorian's line about her portrait prophetic? It became such a signature part of the set design that it was interesting to note its origin and the fact that Victor "made" her get it painted. That portrait traveled more than Karen and Larry on their honeymoon. Karen's wedding veil was - a choice. I was surprised she could talk, let alone eat, with that thing tied under her chin. It is funny to think that her desire for sliding glass doors set the stage for her to become a prostitute and the events that would effect the rest of her life. I was also amused by the other fashion choices, with everyone wearing a hat and the number of bridesmaids, given that it was an at-home reception. Also, Vinny's line about the cake cutting being a chauvinistic tradition seemed out of character, given his history of chauvinism. BTW - who was the other little boy eating cake with Danny during the credits? Dr. Will Vernon was creepy. I'm sure that was not the intended subtext but his talk with Jenny, whom he knew was the object of his son's desire, gave me douche chills. When he asked her where she would be at 40, I wondered if that meant he was 40 years older than her or was he supposed to be in his 40's. Also, he seemed to have no concern for confidentiality given that he freely spoke about Cathy's therapy with Tony. Personally, the recasts are jarring. I kept having to remind myself of which one was Dorian, Karen, Tony, Jenny, Brad, Samantha, Cathy, and Will. I started watching when Samantha married Asa and they all looked much different at that point.

If memory serves me right, I think Cathy was younger than Viki and closer in age to Jenny. She was just over 18 when she went to rehab, which was in 1970. So, by 1977 she was in her mid-20s. However, she was a talented writer and very smart which may have made seem older (that and being played by actresses who were older than the character). She was a true 1970's neurotic and never became a real "hot mess" until she lost her baby and got into kidnapping. https://www.oocities.org/historypg/ar750323.html

I usually don't engage in discussions about ratings because I think they are often misconstrued by fans, and soap press, as the sole indication of a soap's viability. However, I wonder how much the erosion the Ryan's Hope fan base in 1985-1986 can be attributed to story versus the rise of Y&R as a competitor in the time slot? Obviously there were many factors both within the production and outside of the show, but it is hard not to believe that growth of Y&R had an impact. It could be argued that viewers would not have been as easily lured to CBS if RH told a compelling story. Yet, it would be reductive to believe that a change in the focus of the show was the major issue, when Y&R thrived after changing focus to new families within Genoa City.

Please help jog my memory. The brunette in this video had some relationship to Cassandra Rawlins and the never ending murder mystery surrounding her husband. Was she George's niece, stepdaughter or Cassandra's cousin? Did she simply disappear from Genoa City at the end of the story? Wasn't she somehow the key to Paul finding Cassandra's lover (also can't remember his name, but I think he was later cast as Mallet on GL)? My only memories of the character was that she spoke with a "Demi Moore type" rasp in her voice and she was very pretty. Spoiler Alert: I recall the resolve of the mystery had something to do with the gun being in ice and the trigger shot when it melted. I do not know if the gun device was an original idea or lifted from a film. I also remember that Cassandra was not convicted and went on to marry Brad, then died crossing the street in front of Gina's Place. However, the other details elude me.

Every time someone mentions Eight Year in Another World, I recall the anachronistically funny scene when he meets with Henry Sleasar and Lemay is so impressed that Sleasar has his own mimeograph machine. As well as the interesting discussion that before the writer's guild had domain over daytime, a head writer was given a budget that he could either use to hire a staff or keep it all and try to do most of the work on his own. It is a reminder of how difficult it must have been to produce a soap script in the 1970's. It makes the idea of re-writing seem so much more onerous. Which is another reason that his phone calls with Irna Phillips must have been so annoying. I still recall writing papers for school, before we all had personal computers, and paying a fortune to get someone to do my typing. Crafting five scripts a week for an entire cast and crew must have taken exponentially more manpower than is required today.

I miss the maids and "talk-to" roles. It has already been mentioned that the acknowledgement of economic disparity is missing from all of the current soaps. I just watched an old episode of Y&R when Nina begged Jill to attend the launch party of the Jabot's Men's line. Mrs. Abbott understandingly told Nina that she could work at the party, but there was no way she could come as a guest. I appreciate that Nina was motivated to try to fit in, rather than being given carte blanche to waltz into any mansion in town. That is why I miss the housekeepers and what they added to the family drama. I liked the scary ones like AMC's Myra (who later softened) and AW's Helga. Soaps often copied Rebecca's Mrs. Danvers when writing for an older women who terrorized those who dared to come between them and the master of the house. They reminded second wives, and newly wedded spouses of the young sons of the mansion, that the wealthy were not without their own problems. Their role was either to expose women of poor virtue, or allow good girls to establish some backbone. And who could forget Joseph the Majordomo at Dynasty's Carrington estate who hated Alexis so much that he tried to burn her alive in the stables? I also liked the funny ones like AW's Vivian or AMC's Winifred. Esther on Y&R was best utilized as a greek chorus to summarize the plot and often serve as the voice of the audience. AW also had Louise to add some color to the Cory mansion. They were loyal, and always provided a useful ear so that others in the house didn't need to walk around talking to themselves about their schemes or relationship dramas.

I don't know this story. May I ask you to fill in the details?

I'm going to add the 1995 return of Liza Colby to All My Children. I know many consider the 2009 Jamie Luner period to be the low point of the character. However, I have some quibbles with the 1995 storylines for Liza. First, she was brought back to break up Tad and Dixie. Dixie had already been involved with both Craig and Brian, and Tad had a baby with Brooke. But, by 1995 Tad and Dixie were in a solid relationship and had renewed their vows. So, why was Dixie immediately threatened by Liza's return? They had never met, Liza was always Tad's second choice, heck he even preferred her mother to Liza. The motivation for Dixie's jealously coincided with the need to write her out of the show, so it seems more plot-driven than character specific. In my opinion, Liza really returned as Eden from Santa Barbara. She was no longer snobby, suddenly business savvy, and never blamed her father for creating new found half-siblings, just like Eden. There were no remnants of the original Liza, except a penchant for a heavy bang. I enjoyed her initial relationship with Adam. But, even that devolved into a very dark plot line. And eventually she snuck out of town without a significant exit scene.

@dc11786that is a great resource, thank you for posting it! Interestingly in the SOD summaries Brady went to Yale (rather than Harvard as mentioned here) and Jeff went to Harvard. The mystery of why Brady was kicked off the equestrian team was due to drug use (although it never reoccurred as an issue for him once he met Koty). Funny how their family endowed a university but Patrick, Brady, and Jeff were specifically created as ivy-leaguers (no college admission scandals at the guy version of Hadden Hall, I guess). It is also notable that Carter is older than Taylor, but Taylor and her mother must have had overlapping pregnancies since Brady is a year younger than his aunt Julia. The fact that Mike was Eddie's half-brother makes his age being close to his nephew Tom's age more probable. But, one wonders how Koty, a 19-year-old (with a brain tumor), would qualify as a surrogate. And, at 27, Lacey seems young to be appointed the Dean of the woman's college. Also, it is amusing that a lack of mention of Christina and Sarah's sister Lisa, probably meant that she was not part of the original bible.

This all makes sense but I was referring to the clunky comparative made to people living individual lives. It is like writing, "not all people look good wearing yellow, but we all die sometime."

From my recent reading of the plot from SOD on tumblr Yes, Patrick was single and left $50,000 to Sarah in his will, which Noel later stole to give to Eddie the night she whacked him with a wrench, (and seems like a pittance considering her sister Christina inherited a diamond when Patrick's late wife died, just for being a good friend). Noel gave the money back to Sarah to fund the expansion of the motorlodge to include the new nightclub (a misguided idea by Tom that college students would want to go to a motel/disco). Why Patrick allowed Sarah to continue to be abused by Eddie, and the particulars of why Michelle was put up for adoption, but Carter was raised by the Chapin family butler, were never explored. Carter divorced Christina and married Marissa in Mexico. But, Christina used her knowledge that Carter was with Eddie when Sonny the mobster was killed to get him to rip up the divorce papers (somehow the act of ripping the paper invalidated the divorce). He later nullified his marriage to Marissa when he found out that he was a Chapin so that she would not have access to his new found wealth (even though he was specifically excluded from Patrick's will, somehow he gained controlling interest in the family's home and business). Then, a few months later when thier blackmailer was presumed dead, Carter and Christina divorced for good. From what I read here and elsewhere, Marissa disappears due to contract issues between the show and Patty Davis who played her, requiring one of the many Ritual recasts (she was President Reagan's daughter and a huge case of stunt casting). SOD specifically noted that Jeff was adopted, (although at times he was referred to as Christina's stepson, there was no mention of a first wife for Carter), thus clearing the path for his affair with Noel. However, it still doesn't resolve the fact that they grew up together as cousins, at least that GL cousin couple met as adults. For me, the lasting question was the fictional ages of the characters. Was Carter born before Taylor? Was Julia older than Brady? Why was Mike so close in age to his nephew Tom? The Hadden Hall faculty and staff was full of plot-convenient late in life children.

How are the Daytime Emmy's still a thing? I know they were back on CBS after being shuffled off network for years, then being hosted by singing "news" anchors, and finally being streamed on some obscure website. However, I'm sure there is more value in being named the Walmart Customer of the Month than a Daytime Emmy. I am willing to bet that more people read the posting on this discussion board about the best/worst of 2020 than will watch the Daytime Emmy ceremony this year.