Everything posted by j swift
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Bravo's The Real Housewives of....
It is funny that she is poised next Jen Shah. In every scene I think that Mary's clothes are so much edgier than her hair and makeup that she really needs a stylist. Not to be too snobby, but that is the difference between people who say that they love fashion versus those who actually just like shopping and acquisition of more things. Also, at the risk of being gouache, I don't understand Meredith's body. Either she gained some weight during her separation from Seth, and then lost it before filming the confessionals, or she has huge boob implants and a tiny waist and it looks in proportion in certain outfits. However, I appreciate her con that by saying less she has convinced the others ladies that she is more sophisticated, rather than the truth which is that she just has very few interesting ideas to talk about...
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RIP: In Memoriam Thread
CC Capwell #1 has passed, not the best CC, but interesting that he was also a pharamacist Hollywood Reporter: #RIP Peter Mark Richman; pharmacist turned actor was in everything from 'A Hatful of Rain' on Broadway, 'Friendly Persuasion' and 'The Black Orchid' on the big screen and 'Dynasty' and 'Three's Company — as Chrissy's dad! — on TV. https://bit.ly/3qqGVrx https://twitter.com/MikeBarnes4/status/1349892934498324482?s=20
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Rituals
Can anyone explain the final line? "Each person's life is unique, but the rituals remain the same." That makes no sense and it is demonstrably untrue. My rituals include a morning ice coffee and a banana. Was Christina suggesting that it somehow universal? Why is a connection being made between individualism and rituals? I get that they were referencing the title, but that is a clunky line.
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Rituals
If Carter Robertson was the illegitimate son of Patrick Chapin, and Michelle Davenport was the illegitimate daughter of Patrick Chapin, then did they unknowingly have an incestuous affair and nobody mentioned it? I spent a very enjoyable afternoon reading the SOD synopsis on Tumblr. https://classicritualssod.tumblr.com/ The experience reminded me why I originally loved SOD. The synopses covered most of the story and I was able to get an adequate overview of the whole series. I admired how many plots got told within one year in a 30 minute format. Also, experiencing it by reading the cannon, I wasn't distracted by the multiple recasts and other production issues that plagued the legacy of the show. There were some dropped plots that were obviously due to changes in the head writers. Logan never had to judge Taylor's performance at the University (in fact, she barely worked at the Hadden Hall). Diandra's motives shift from selfish covetous bitch to caring wife throughout her pregnancy and I falsely predicted that her baby's daddy was her prior Latin boyfriend because they kept saying she was further along than she thought. The football team living in mansion never gets resolved. There was no follow up on Marissa's attempt to murder Carter by gas. How did the Chapin's recover financially after being bailed out by CJ Field's marriage to Taylor? Also, why did Mr. and Mrs. Chapin have such disparate wills without leaving any property to their surviving spouses? Tom Gallagher was like the Job of the show, from his girlfriend who committed suicide because she was raped by his father, to paralysis, radiation poisoning, and being mislead into raising his brother's son, that guy rarely experienced a moment of peace. The male parts are so stereotypical for an 80's soap, any younger guy can go undercover as either a white supremacist or a latin revolutionary, and every older guy has inexplicable sex appeal. I will never understand adult characters, like Carter, who change their last name when they find out that they are illegitimate; it takes a lot of work to change your name and it doesn't seem worth it (also, it was confusing when SOD suddenly calls him "Chapin" in the summaries). Did his wife and son also change their last name? Finally, SOD intermittently refers to Christina as "Chris" and Dakota as "Koty" which left me wondering if they went by both names on the show? I recommend a reading, each week is two-pages, and it was a great distraction from world events. 10 out of 10
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Another World Discussion Thread
Oy! Can we please return to discussing our memories of AW and dissecting the plots? If I have to read one more piece of supposition on the financial outlook of P&G, or the viability of syndication from people who are non-experts in entertainment business affairs, I am going to pull every hair out of my head!
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Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread
It is amusing that certain criticisms (like Kirkland's Hope) get repeated over time and become part of the folklore of the show. I feel that the Dubujak clan were far more corrosive to the Ryan's cannon. Max's mobsters were described as international crime lords, and they were concerned with things like espionage and currency trading. In essence, the Dubujak's took the focus outside of the neighborhood of Riverside and extended the world of Ryan's Hope too far from the bar (both literally and figuratively because they blew it up). Whereas the Novotny mobsters were involved in gambling and racketeering which would actually affect the daily lives of the Ryan's. The Novak/Novotnys were far more of a threat to the vulnerable, or morally corruptible, members of the extended Ryan family, and their violent tactics seemed scarier since they had followed through on actually killing Mary. Max completely derailed the character of Siobhan, and turned her from woman with her own agency into a damsel in distress. I never enjoy a male character to whom everyone is drawn toward despite having no redeemable values. Then, by the time you introduce Max's crazy mother, first wife, and daughter with their inexplicably variable accents (aka the Hilaria Baldwins of the 1980's), and his returns from the dead, I think it subverted the core values of the show much more than the introduction of the Kirkland's.
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Edge of Night (EON) (No spoilers please)
Given that it is the 36th anniversary of the final episode, let's discuss our memories of the finale. Many cite the finale as the best soap ending in the genre, which is admittedly a lot to live up to upon repeat viewing. I just rewatched it and I was left as excited by the cliffhanger as I was upon my initial viewing. It is remarkable that they built entire new sets for Miles's Honeymoon Suite and Wonderland Lane as the show was ending. I always loved the EON score, so to hear the music cue at the end of episode sent chills up my spine. However, I was left with a few questions: Was Laurie Karr brought back once they knew the show was cancelled or were there larger plans for the character? Why wasn't she in the final episode? And how would Jody know who she was when Mike mentioned her at the wedding? Regardless of those nitpicks, I still enjoy the episode and I think it deserves its iconic status.
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Dallas Discussion Thread
I've always been intrigued by the virtual inaccuracies of TV set design, but Southfork is a special case all unto itself. In the pilot and mini-series episodes, JR, Bobby and Jock each lived in attached casitas that made up the main house. However, by the time the show went to series they all wound up in one two-story house. There seemed to be an endless supply of en-suites because each couple had their own bedroom with attached bath (which I guess were the redecorated spaces from when the boys were teens on the ranch). As well as an en-suite for Lucy, and rooms for the eventual third generation of Ewings. We know that Ray lived in a separate tack-house close to the barn, but there is no mention of other servants quarters. In real life, the house would look like an ice cream cone, with the entry, formal living and dining room, and a kitchen on the ground floor and infinite bedrooms and baths upstairs. Additionally I was always intrigued by the cars. JR always drove cars with the license plate Ewing 3. I coveted Bobby's convertible Ewing 4 (although I question the historical accuracy of Texas oil men driving foreign cars). But, for some reason, Sue Ellen drove Ewing 2 until the final season when Miss Ellie drove her car with the license Ewing 2 to Carter McKay's ranch. Lucy was Ewing 5, and Pam was Ewing 6 (perhaps the divorce and change of plates was the precursor for her fatal run-in with a truck). However, they lived on a ranch that clearly only had a two car garage which meant that someone was always parking in the motor court next to the patio (maybe when your family is in oil, you don't worry about a little carbon monoxide getting in your breakfast?). After their marriages ended, Miss Ellie, Bobby, and JR all remarried, but stayed in the same house with their respective spouces that never complained about living with their in-laws. It may be that Southfork has a special place in my heart because it was my late father's misbegotten dream that someday my whole family would live together, an idea regularly opposed by my sister and myself, but he loved big family dinners (as long as it was catered).
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Knots Landing
It is the 41st anniversary of the premiere episode. Isn't odd to think back to a time when TV was watched by so many people at the same time that the number 1 show could be scheduled at 9PM on a Friday, the spinoff would premiere during a holiday week, and the reveal of Who Shot JR didn't even wait for sweeps week? I also find the tagline amusing because Knots was supposed to be about average people living in a cul-de-sac, but in reality, a house in Pacific Palisades (which Knots fictionalized) would be around 4 million dollars, whereas the real Southfork Ranch today is estimated at 5 million, so Gary and Val weren't exactly slumming it... https://twitter.com/TheDustinFitz/status/1343299474374979585?s=20
- Another World Discussion Thread
- One Life to Live Tribute Thread
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One Life to Live Tribute Thread
Yeah, your comment inspired me to reflect on Ron's plotting. As much as I appreciated the central role given to Viki, most of the time she was reacting to events rather than driving the narrative. I would love to have seen how Viki navigated The Banner through the onset of online media. To watch her struggle with editing the reporting of internet sources and gossip trolls. It might have been more interesting than a third time through menopause or watching her feign interest over the fatherhood of Natalie's latest child. Although one has to credit Ron for creating Walker/Flynn, Victor Jr, and Todd, the first doppelganger of a long lost twin ever in the history of soaps. He later repeated the same hat trick on DOOL with Hattie. If Adrienne or Bonnie get a long lost twin then we'll have a trifecta.
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One Life to Live Tribute Thread
You make an interesting point about the story telling in the later years. I was recently watching some late 1970's (maybe it was early 80's?) episodes around the time when Viki almost saw Karen turning tricks in the Llandview Hotel. In that episode, she mentored Pat about the politics of working in the newsroom with men. She talked to Tina about how to keep herself safe from predators. Then, she was at the hotel to have a professional lunch about her newspaper. Fast forward forty years and Viki never had an office set, she had no female friends, and she chased after damaged men who were rarely worth her time.
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One Life to Live Tribute Thread
Cathy really was a piece of work. A victim of mental illness and trauma, who coped by becoming dependent on any guy who looked at her twice. She was always the third wheel in every love triangle, and tried to steal men from Vicky, Pat, and Karen. She was certainly no match for any of those iconic Llandview women. As a result she was in at least two relationships where her lover only stayed out of pity. That being said, I am surprised that Ron Carlivati never brought her back. He was such a fan of the Vicky antagonists (from Allison, to Tina, Echo, and Irene), that it seems natural for Cathy to try to get her hooks into Clint. Until I caught up on her history, I never realized that she was the reason Pat came to Llandview. I recall Pat being Vicky's close friend so it is weird that she was originally team-Cathy. The whole thing about how she escaped kidnapping charges is also an odd detail. Today, I guess she would have been diagnosed with a brain tumor (the rare type that causes people to plan child abductions). At the time the insanity defense was in the news, so I suspect that was motivation to use it as a device. However, while Cathy couldn't remember stealing Kevin after she was found, she had clearly planned the kidnapping and was conscious of her efforts to escape, which therefore negates her qualifying as insane. Obviously, the writer at the time thought enough of the character to devise a way to keep her on the canvas, but subsequent regimes were not as beholden to poor old Cathy. In hindsight, it was a cruel trick that Vicky's long lost daughter Megan shared a name with Cathy's late child. Vicky begged Larry not to tell Clint that baby Megan inherited her illness from him. However, Clint went to father tons of other kids who never developed the same genetic defect. He also shared DNA with Asa, Bo, Natalie, Joey, Cord, Kevin, and Jessica who never had babies with a similar illness, which makes me second guess Larry's prowess as a genetic specialist...
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Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread
I think the disconnect for Dakota's introduction was the de-evolution of the character of Jill. Jill had a bout of amnesia when she met Dakota, which in typical soap style caused her to change her hair and wardrobe, rather than seek medical intervention. A later version of the same plot was attempted on GH when Felicia hooked up with Decker Moss. The result was that both women looked foolish to fans. Jill was a sophisticated Manhattan attorney, why would she suddenly wish to run around with a perm and ripped jeans? The idea that a professional woman fantasizes about escaping her work responsibilities by living on a boat in the Hudson River was not appealing then or now; and seems a little anti-feminist in retrospect.
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Another World Discussion Thread
The conundrum in Dennis's case is that he didn't change his last name when he lived in Texas and found out the Alex was his father, nor was he given inheritance rights to the Wheeler estate (I believe those went to his mother and uncle). Also, when Iris returned to Bay City she didn't call herself Iris Wheeler, by then she was mostly credited as Iris Cory. Finally, when she found out the identity of her mother she certainly was never introduced as Iris Kosloff. Given the co-existing, (and previously discussed) Frankie Frame situation, I can only conclude that Bay City existed in a parallel matronymic culture. Who knew they were so progressive?
- Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread
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Another World Discussion Thread
Speaking of the Love family, does anyone recall the source of their family's wealth? I don't remember any reference to "Love Inc." I do recall that Peter worked in the legal department at Cory Publishing, Nicole was a model, and Donna dabbled in interior decorating when they were introduced. However, how did Reginald become so wealthy and why did none of his heirs become involved in the family business? Also, was Michael Hudson's odd foray into spying for a federal agency on Lucas ever fully explained? Was his tech company just a cover for his spying? Looking back, Michael and Donna were constant c#*& blockers for Felicia. From Carl all the way to Lucas, it was wonder she didn't dislike them more.
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Bravo's The Real Housewives of....
RHOP: Gizelle's nonverbal reaction to Monique's reveal about Jamal has haunted my thoughts since Sunday. Her humiliation was undeniable, and deserved or not, it was compelling. She worked so hard to suppress tears mixed with the furor of feeling exposed and I could not look away. We've watched Gizelle struggle with a desire for attachment. I am empathic to the fact that she must feel so alone, raising her daughters without the benefit of a companion. She clearly wants to be in a relationship, and as an audience we don't have a sense the variables that have prevented her from finding commitment. She is beautiful, (despite her poor taste in furniture, clothes, and men), she seems attentive to the needs of the men in her life, and she is charming. So, unless the issue is a lack of availability, it hard to understand how she has only dated shmucks who don't return her devotion. I feel Gizelle likes to stir the pot, and enjoys dispensing some judgment on her friends. However, she is not cruel, and while she may repeat the word on the street, she would never go as far as Monique to actually try to dredge up information solely for the purpose of trying to hurt the feelings of the other women. While it is also true that there has not been enough focus on how the rumors of Monique's infidelity, so soon after the birth of her son, affected her life and her marriage, I think the pleasure she took in humiliating Gizelle was reprehensible. RHOA : Latoya is a try-hard and I am glad she's not a full-time housewife so we don't have too focus to much on her story. Drew's scene with her husband was difficult to watch. However, I never watched The Game, so I don't understand how she played a character named Drew? I read the wiki for the plot of the whole show and other actresses played characters with different names so it was hard to understand why her character shared her full name. Also, can we all agree that the pronunciation is bio-pic not bi-opic? The etymology is a biographical picture, not half of an optical image.
- Another World Discussion Thread
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Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread
How early did we know that Jill was adopted? Of course I remember the introduction of Bess, Maggie, and Ben, as well as the infamous line from Faith about Jill being unwanted. However, I don't recall Jill's adoption as being a salient part of her backstory until later in the series. Does anyone recall the circumstances under which we first found out that Jill, Faith, and Roger didn't share the same biological mother? Was it a retcon or was that fact always part of Jill's bio?
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Another World Discussion Thread
Looking back, I think there were some key elements missing from the setup of the plot and the payoff was deeply unsatisfying. This was mostly due to recasts and other production elements that were beyond the control of the writers. On paper, meeting the patriarch of the Love family and having him be involved with the matriarch of the McKinnons was intriguing, but the execution was flawed. I think fans were ultimately disappointed when a plot that should have established the backstory cannon of the Loves and the McKinnons turned into the expansion of the Hudson clan and the conflict between brothers John and Michael. First, the children that were most affected by Mary's absence were not the central focus of the story. There was a lot of hubbub regarding Reginald's return on the relationship of Donna and Michael (whom by all rights should have already bought their own penthouse and moved out from living with her adult brother and sister long before Reg even came to town). Cheryl, Vicky and Marley really should have been the center of the story. AWHP reports that Mary came on in August 1986, but Marly left the first time in September 1986 for a year, Vicky left in December (who would have know Rhonda Lewin would have been such a flop) and Cheryl left (with Scott) by July 1988 after being backburned for a few awhile. MJ was given most of the dialogue about accepting her missing mother back into the fold, but there was very little exploration into how the loss of her mother played into her youthful indiscretions into porn and drugs. However, I think the show missed a beat by not focusing enough of the storyline on the impact on the youngest kids. It has already been mentioned that Donna's de-evolution into a weeping victim damaged her as a character in ways that could only have been resolved by Anna Stuart's return to the role and the ensuing retrograde amnesia of never mentioning Reg again. However, having Cheryl and/or Marley being terrorized by Reg would have fit better with those characters. Then, an emboldened Donna and Mary could have helped them fight back. I also agree that more exploration into the marriage of Elizabeth and Reginald, through the eyes of Jason Frame and Mary McKinnon would have been preferable. The whole timeline of when they both left (and why) was resolved through exposition which was very unsatisfying. Imagine how great a set of flashbacks with Anne Heche as Elizabeth and Tom Eplin as a young Reg to let viewer see their relationship would have been? The loss of Elizabeth could have gone a long way to humanize Reg and his motivation. It would also have served to make him more of a plausible angle in the Mary/Reg/Vince triangle. And Anne as Elizabeth would have explained Reg's attachment to Vicky. Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead. It was instantly assumed that Reg owned the Love mansion and controlled the businesses. However, years earlier Carl had embezzled from the family business and Donna was able to mortgage the house to pay off the debt. So, it would have been nice to have some explanation about how he was able to immediately repossess all of his belongings, especially after defrauding his investors by escaping to South America. I've always wanted one scene where a character like Mary has to go to the DMV and try to get a driver's license after being declared missing for years. Just something to acknowledge that appearing back in town doesn't indicate that all of your rights and properties are immediately returned to their prior ownership. Speaking of the undesirable focus on the expansion of Michael's family, does anyone recall when the girls went from being Love's to Hudson's? Vicky was frequently referenced as Vicky Hudson, but she couldn't have been adopted by Michael because the twins turned 18 soon after she arrived in Bay City (when Marley was supposed to receive her trust fund). So, when did they change their last name?
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Dynasty Discussion Thread
I just read an excerpt of Helmet Burger's memoir in one of the British tabloids (he played De Vilibis). He noted being miserable playing the role that he felt was too melodramatic. He was having addiction issues that plagued him until his death and Joan Collins later wrote in one of her memoirs that she did not like working with him. So, I wonder if that put the kibosh on the whole storyline including Ms. Scannell's part? Structurally, Nicole felt more like a temporary barrier to ease the transition for Jeff from Fallon to Kirby.
- Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread
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Another World Discussion Thread
I think one other issue that has gone unmentioned was the lack of reestablishing Alice and Sally's relationship. There was no mention of how their maturity had affected their rapport. I don't recall Sally (or even Aunt Liz) catching Alice up on her many weddings or life events that Alice had missed. Meanwhile, Ada and Rachel's relationship changed over time and they discussed their evolution from Rachel being judged by Ada during the Steven years, to Ada's support during the Mac years, and finally Rachel being able to care for Ada when she moved onto the Cory estate. While Sally never seemed disappointed or resentful that Alice went missing for most of the traumatic events in her life, Alice was so critical of Sally's choices both with David and Caitlin (being holier-than-thou was a Matthews family trait). From my history of posting on this board, one can tell that I was never an Alice fan, but her relationship with Sally before Sally's demise negated most of their early history. I mean why did Alice fight so hard to adopt Sally from her uncle and grandmother if she was going to completely ignore Sally in her early 20's?