j swift

While I wouldn't go as far as saying that I couldn't stand Kelli as Kim, it was remarkable that between Kelli's Kim, Randall Edwards' Delia, and Cali Timmons' Maggie, Roger Coleridge certainly has a type (lol). They were each schemers with a strong sense of family, always looking out for number one, driven to distraction by romantic fantasies, and always underestimated by their foes. Roger is truly a character that one would never see on a soap today because (a) his age (and his hairline) would be considered too niche, (b) his caddish nature would be considered undesirable, and (c) his complexity would never have been given time to develop. As far as the Proud and the Passionate, to me, there was always a funny through line about the character of Kim that she wanted fame, but she was not a gifted actress. She was always forced to seduce directors, or undermine the lead actors, to get parts because she wasn't very good. Even her own mother was never impressed by her skills on the stage.

You are correct. The issue was discussed in prior pages. At the time of the strike there was a newspaper article about scab soap writers that is cited here http://ryansbaronline.tripod.com/labinetimes88.html Labine lamented that the older woman/younger man story she created had resulted in an unplanned murder. She didn't name the characters in the story but viewers would have easily understood the reference. Worse yet, the scabs had written Kimberly into a corner. Rae had pointed the gun at Michael, but dropped it when she couldn't shoot him. Then, Kimberly shot Michael, but it wasn't initially fatal because, like Scrooge, he was visited three times before he died. First, Tiso Navatny's (sp?) hit-man found Michael close to death, but not dead yet, and left the scene. Later, Jack Fenneli (sp?) came to yell at Michael for screwing up his news story about the mob, but by that time Michael was dead and the police arrived at that very moment. Clearly, Jack was going to be unfairly tried and Rae, who felt sorry for the now pregnant Kimberly, was going to confess to save her daughter. Labine coarse corrected and somehow placed the blame on the mob, even though viewers clearly saw Kimberly shoot him, and she flashbacked to the shooting several times afterward. If this board existed at the time, we would have been up in arms, but savvy viewers who were aware of the strike in 1981 were more forgiving. Kimberly's pregnancy resulted in a lot of good stories, but it was probably never part of Labine's original proposal. But, that's what you get when hire a dude because he has smooth moves on the disco dance floor, rather than actual corporate experience. Interestingly, a 1991 article on Corbett noted that he got his real estate license after being fired from RH, and given that forty years later he still reports on real estate for Extra, it may have been kismet.

I was also never as much of a fan of RHONJ as I am of Potomac and New York. To me, a key distinction between the two shows was when Danielle pulled Margaret's ponytail (which sound ridiculous when just writing the phrase), it became about women in their 40's discussing the rights and wrongs of hair pulling, where as Potomac has broken the fourth wall and discussed the implications of being on a show that portrays violence between two women of color. Which may be why the Jersey women are often the subjects of ridicule through the editing of their show and their tacky displays of wealth, while the Potomac women feel as if they are in on the joke.

What chilled me to the bone was Monique's demeanor that continued into the next day. She was filled with misguided rationales without any insight into how extreme her reaction was to the situation. I also really appreciated the context that each of the other women discussed in terms of the racial and gender implications of being a part of a tv show that showed physical violence between two women. It was very compelling. Between this and the Staci interview, at some point Tamron's just going to have to rename her show Watch What Happens 2.0

Pete and Diana were a little too similar to the rich girl/poor boy/father's disapproval story of Kit and Joey to stomach a second time in two years.

I have a long held theory (for which I would like to gather more evidence), that one of the tell-tale signs of poor soap writing is repeating first names of prior characters. While I understand that a name like Vic is common, I would propose that the choice to name a character with the same first name that viewers would recognize from just a few years prior is indicative of a writer who is either unfamiliar with the history of the show, or doesn't value the long term commitment of the audience.

This article refers to Ben Masters as Vic. I was just reading about John Considine's Vic Hastings, who was hired by Alice to run Frame Construction after Steve went to prison. But was there another Vic? Note that nobody argued for the continuing story of Pete and Diana (from the long lost and never to be heard from again Aussie Frame family tree). Also, isn't weird to think of a time when soaps were so popular that a writer could cite a plot in a daily newspaper and expect that the readers knew the reference? Yet, it always strikes me as reductive when soap critics blame the writer for the quality of the production. 1982 was bad time for NBC in general. The ABC soaps were kicking butt, NBC prime time was failing, and the company was about to be sold, so it would be a bit of an overstatement to suggest that the writing alone was the cause of AW's misfortunes.

Agreed, Henry Sleasar's scripts continued to reference Springfield later in the story. In 1982, Jody returns to Springfield to see her dying mother, (who had a prior affair with Ben Travis, Nicole's father). The mother (who is referenced as either Billie-Lorraine, Leonie, or Billie-Mae in different texts) was smothered to death soon after Jody's arrival leaving her an orphan (Jody's step-father and brother had been killed by the mob) and prompting the Republic of Eden plot, (possibly the nadir of the show). At the time it seemed to be a P&G "generic" Springfield, and not necessarily the place where Reva Shayne et al lived. It does bring up an interesting question of why the character was named Jody Travis. Of course, she and Nicole shared a father, but she was the product of an affair which she found about after her stepfather and stepbrother died. So, why did she refer to herself using the surname of her biological dad, whom she had never met, as opposed to her step-father who raised her? Obviously it was a plot devise to clue in the audience regarding Nicole and Jody's relationship, but upon reflection it doesn't make much sense.

OMG, I adored Therese Lemonte! Bye Bye Blackbird on Iris's terrace and then kaput; amazing. I don't remember anything about Carol, but Therese was iconic. [Edited] I read the 1975 soap history thread on these boards about Carole Lemonte; she was quite a cruel minx. Gaslighting poor Lenore, trying to get her medical history from Russ and her legal history about the Addison murder trial from news archives. I appreciated the timeliness of Lenore's wanting to work outside the home, and Carol using Lenore's stress over balancing work and motherhood to set her up to fail around the office. And, Steve having to remind Robert that women should be allowed to be more liberated. Who knew Steven Frame was so progressive? Also, Lenore's mother appropriately suggests she go see the psychiatrist. When was the last time soaps didn't demonize mental health issues? It was a great example of 1970's soapiness because there were layers of Lenore being jealous not just of Robert's attraction to Carole as a younger woman, but also her jealousy of Carole's career accomplishments, coupled with the over the top reaction of Carole snooping around Walter Curtin's untimely demise. One gets the sense that in 2020 female soap characters are only concerned about affairs of the heart and they never talk about their ambitions in the workplace; unless they are schemers or objects of scorn. So, Olivia came after Robert had already left town? That seems so odd to tie her to a character that was no longer on the canvas. Also, it is interesting that Vic Hastings, (John Considine's character), was pretty important to the plot during his time on the show, and then they re-hired the actor to play Reginald Love. I know there is a list somewhere on these boards of actors who played more than one character on the same show, but it always strikes me as an indicator of a production team that devalued the audience's experience of soap history.

So, I'm re-reading the history and my memory escapes me on a couple of issues related to my favorite AW leading man, Robert Delaney. 1). I've totally conflated Olive Randolph and Olivia Delaney. On the Another World homepage, it mentions that Olivia came to Bay City to track down her husband Robert. I recall Robert being married to India in Somerset and then Lenore and Iris, so where does Olivia fit in the timeline? 2). What caused the breakup of Robert and Lenore? I know there was a tell-tale scarf that lead to the revelation of Walter Curtin's guilt in the murder of Wayne Addison, and I think Walter died in a car crash soon after it was revealed, but when did Lenore find out that Walter was guilty? And why does it say that she left Bay City to protect Wally from Walter's guilt? Finally, Lenore and Pat were close, but what was her relationship like with Iris and Rachel? 3). I recall that Larry helped Clarice raise Cory, her son with Robert whose existence drove Iris to nefarious deeds. What were the circumstances that lead to Robert finding out that he was Cory's father? Did he contribute monetarily to Cory's upbringing? How long were Robert and Clarice involved and how would you characterize their relationship (a fling, a rebound, or was there any sense of them being destined for each other). BTW Cory Ewing and Wally Curtin would have made excellent legacy returns later in the series, such a shame that they were neglected by subsequent writers.

I just re-read the 1980 synopsis of AW and it was really good. The Janice/Mac/Rachel/Mitch story had its climax in March (so odd to think of time when soap climaxes didn't have to coincide with sweeps weeks), the drama with Pat, Cecile, and Phillip at Brava seemed like a fresh new situation for old characters to thrive, and Kit Halloway as a Patty Hearst prototype was intriguing. For those unfamiliar with the story, Kit came to Bay City to get away from the press attention she suffered after being kidnapped by left wing radicals. Elena, Cecile's mother, recognized her from the society pages and outed her to the rest of the town. Which then caused a rift between Mac and Pat about publishing a story about Kit in Brava and further blowing her cover. I was a Joey Perini fan, and I recall that AW botched the landing of the Halloway family by bringing in too many of them too soon, and eventually both the Perini's and the Halloway's were all written out, but I like when soaps dramatize stories that were ripped from the headlines. The Halloways were sort of the Loves 1.0; an earlier attempt to establish another wealthy family in town beside the Corys.

I think it would have worked with Reena on her own returning to Texas after her marriage imploded. Also, I just re-read the 1980 synopsis and Blaine was already in Bay City and was on her own (between her pairings with Jamey and Sandy), so she could have crossed over easily, given her ranching experience. Meanwhile, Iris divorced Brian one week before visiting Houston, and Mac had just recovered from his trauma with Janice, so it was an especially odd time for her to pack up and leave town.

Speaking of retconning a soap family's history, can we talk about Kevin Anderson? On the one hand, it was nice to see James Goodwin get a second chance at soap fame after playing that drip of a character Johnny Bauer (another retcon of a historical soap family) on Guiding Light. I don't even recall the circumstances, but any male lead who wears a prince charming costume to his wedding, as Johnny did for Mindy, is not worthy of my fandom. However, Kevin Anderson as the long lost cousin, (half-brother?) who hated Jake lacked any logical reason. First of all, we had already met Jake's family when his Uncle Vince, and Vince's kids, lived in Bay City, so introducing a new branch in that family tree seemed the product of a writer who had not researched the history of the show. Second, to this day I could not figure out the source of Kevin's vendetta against Jake and his motives for subverting the law. There were vague hints of jealousy, but we knew that Jake did not grow up under ideal circumstances, and his successes as an adult were tenuous at best. So, what drove Kevin to not like Jake as an adult whom he had no contact with for over two decades (btw was the whole story repeated on GH between Sonny and Ric)? Third, Goodwin is a charming actor, so his pairing with Lorna was romantic to watch, but it was such a stark contrast to his other actions within his storyline. Eventually, Kevin was written out after trying to kill Carl. However, if anyone can recall or interpret why this character had so driven by a need for justice, I would still be interested in your take. Was the whole story just to serve as a redemption for Carl and create routing value for his pairing with Rachel? Also, am I alone in thinking that the Carl/Jake relationship was never as fully explored as it could have been? Jake benefited from Carl's interference a couple of times, but there were few memorable scenes between the two, and I am at a loss to recall how they felt about each other.

I recall being a fan of Nicole #1, the model/coke addict who was paired with Jamey. Her story reflected the times. She was also very pretty and wore great costumes, including one gold lame cocktail dress with huge shoulder pads that I still envision whenever I think of the character. However, I would hypothesize that as Vicky aged she made Nicole seem redundant. You didn't need two women from the same family who were both the "wild child". I suppose that Nicole's original purpose was to connect the Love's to the Cory's through Jamey, and to create drama for Donna that would interfere with her love life. However, once Vicky became a 20-something she began to fulfill those roles. Peter was always a superfluous character. He never drove story on his own and his motives changed according to the convenience of the plot. During his romance with Sally, he was the moral center of the family and wagged his finger at Donna for being such a snob. Later, he was the sniveling son trying to win his father's approval who then just disappeared and was never mentioned again. Donna was popular from day one, but we shouldn't forget Bridget. AW had an amazing history of household staff characters from Louise and Vivian to Alma and Buzz. Bridget was initially two-faced. She was kind to Donna's face and tolerated the loss of salary when Carl embezzled the money and Donna couldn't cover the payroll. But, she was also working with Jake and Vicky to get Marley's inheritance, so there was an interesting other side to the character. Later, Bridget was written as a loving and caring maternal figure, but I always remembered her intriguing introduction.

Thinking back, it was a show that was flawed from its initial conception. They tried to center the plot around the popularity of Iris, but it was an odd choice at the time given that she was known as a protagonist on AW, not a heroine. I know the show pre-dates Blaine, but a younger woman, on the come up, trying to find a partner, is more compelling than a woman "of a certain age" who had already learned her lessons from years of trails and tribulations. I was a big Iris fan, but just like the failure of the Kramer spinoff from Sienfield, there can be too much of a good thing in tv dramas. Obviously, there were other characters from the start, but Iris was undoubtedly the main draw, and removing her so quickly from Reena's orbit did not allow a smooth transition to a new person who we loved to hate. Also, the initial plot was a love story which was never her central motivating factor. Iris had been through many men during her time and Bay City and she refused to change for any of them, (including the totally dreamy Robert Delaney). In fact, she never seemed to bemoan a lost love or worry about being single. Then, you have Dennis, who should have been the male lead given his history on the show and his relationship to Iris, but he was SORASed and recast shortly before the show premiered so there was no connection between the audience and the actor. Finally, the casting of Alex Wheeler was obviously flawed, so much so that they killed him off twice in the first year. Re-watching the show, I couldn't pinpoint if Alex lacked charm due to poor acting or poor writing, but it was hard to believe that this sleazeball in a leisure suit could persuade Iris to leave Bay City, as well as promote such loyalty from Ginny, Ryan, and the rest his staff. In addition to frequent cast overhauls, and suddenly missing families, there was the problem of multiple writers as evidenced by the confounding "social issues" plot regarding Elliot Carrington and Barrett Marshall. The backstory was about war crimes that occurred in Vietnam. The production seemed unsure about whether to pin the crime on Elliot or Barrett. Barrett was the obvious choice because he was the third wheel in the popular Ryan/Ginny romance. But, it may have seemed distasteful to have a long lost war veteran be responsible for killing innocent families and the actor playing Ryan was eager to leave the show around the time of his wedding to Ginny, thus there may have been a future for the character of Barrett. So, then Elliot became a prime suspect and the story hinted that he may have planted the memory of committing the war crimes in Barrett's already troubled mind. He was also the spanner in the Iris/Alex love story, and even though there had been no prior evidence of mental illness when he was in Bay City, suddenly he was very unstable in Houston, and even went so far as to slap Iris when he found out that Alex was Dennis's biological father. However, Elliot had some story potential with both Dennis and Paige, and his pairing with Paige was a compelling redemption story after both of them had been rejected by everyone in town. But then, after another writer change, Barrett and Elliott had their final mental breakdowns and left the show. This kind of back and forth just ruined the pace of the storytelling and made both characters seem to change motivations randomly according to plot convenience. We were an NBC soap household and I was always excited for the premiere of a new show because there was always so much hype, and NBC started so many new soaps. After the total snoozefest of How to Survive a Marriage (this 6-year-old was predictably not engaged by a feminist take on the dynamics of 70's relationships), I was thrilled to see Iris have some new adventures. But those hopes were quickly dashed. If anyone has read any of my other posts then you know that I despise when "bitchy women" are tamed by the love of a "good man", and for me that was the central concept of Texas and its biggest shortcoming. Lastly, don't even get me started on the redundancies of both Wheeler brothers having conniving ex-wives who popped up in Houston just in time to spoil their new relationships.

I just finished listening to the full New Christy Minstrels Soap Theme playlist on Youtube and it was a hoot. Titles like One Life to Live or The Young and Restless are easy to makeup lyrics for their instrumental themes, but The Doctors was clearly a stretch ( ♫ we are all doctors ♪).

Not only was Jamie's age in suspended animation, but he also seemed to have forgotten any of the lessons he learned from being in a triangle with Blaine and Sandy. One would think that after his history with Blaine, Jamie would have learned to listen to his mother when some new vixen claims he fathered her baby. Also, in the creepy-but-never-mentioned file, he dated Vicky's aunt Nicole back in the day.

One last thought from Donna's introductory scene - I really liked Jennifer Runyon's Sally. I am more familiar with Mary Page Keller's performance because that was the period that I watched the most, but in re-watching this scene I admire Ms. Runyon's take on the character. Runyon's Sally is spunky and had the chutzpah to spare with Donna. Keller's Sally was a good heroine/damsel-in-distress but she lacked some of the spark that connected Sally with her history as a troubled teen. It is akin to DAYS Hope wherein later writers forgot her subversive nature as a teen and only wrote her as sometimes sleuth and misbegotten Mom. My interpretation was that Donna's disapproval of Sally was motivated by snobbery and protecting Peter, versus any real animosity toward her. Sally's time with Caitlin was written as he was a bad boy and she was this sweet and innocent girl. To me, Keller's Sally lacked the wit and self-assurance to battle Donna on her own. However, if I remember correctly, Sally had already been married, she went through a rebellion period, and she wasn't always nice to those Hobson boys. So, writing her as a wilting flower forced to choose between Peter and Caitlin was a bit of a character change for such a powerful young woman. In hindsight, I wish they had stuck with bratty Sally.

No wonder Peter was so screwed up. Reg is talking about the new beginning with his dead grandson from Donna and completely ignores any reference to Peter (or Peter's son with Britney (which maybe wasn't Peter's but Reg didn't know that for sure), or Scott, or even his great grandson Stephen). P.S. - From Kevin Thatcher to Britney's son, Caitlin Ewing was always game to raise some other guy's kid (unless Britney's son was his, but I recall that he was Peter's progeny). Also, I totally forgot that Reginald threw himself off of the roof, I guess to preserve Michael's innocence as a character.

I share your naiveté with regard to hair extension, but I clearly recall Linda wearing the extensions on her talk show Attitudes, and one day during a segment where she hung upside down one of them started falling out. Here's a clip from earlier in the episode when Mitch is gifting Felicia some lingerie and she has the shorter hairdo. It looks like she was growing out the sides to attach the clips, but there are clearly extensions because her hair was not that long all the way around. I also found it funny that Mac and Cass never remarked on Felicia's hair at the party. Perhaps they were too embarrassed to ask why she was wearing a wig? To me this clip also proves that Mitch was never meant to be Felicia's long term romance because they were not a good match: (1) Who gives a woman lingerie for her 40th birthday? (2) Felicia Gallant iconically wore peignoirs with marabou trim, not lacy teddies. I Googled the musical, odd that it was written by John Pielmeier of Agnes of God fame. Also, an odd choice of music because while it sets a mood, the lyrics don't fit with the scene very well.

Donna's mention of her 7th grade teacher Mrs Cavanaugh during Felicia's party also got me thinking about whether or not Donna ever graduated from high school. Given that she spent so much time in the secret room under The Love mansion during her pregnancy with the twins, I wonder if she ever achieved a diploma? Also, this episode features a flashback to Iris and Michael's affair (they crammed a lot of story into 40 minutes in those days). Was this the first time that viewers were told of their affair? I know Iris returned four months earlier and they set up a Donna/Iris/Michael triangle, but were there any prior flashbacks to the fact that they had actually been in flagrante delicto while living in Europe? Finally, did Lisa and Felicia have a goodbye scene in the prior episode? Because it seems odd that she's going on a midnight flight to London on the night of Felicia's party, Matt visits her, and yet she doesn't even call Felicia (or Jamie) to say goodbye.

I was watching old clips based on our discussion of the history of Donna Love and I had some thoughts: (1) This is Donna's first scene - talk about weird ages, were Peter and Donna's date meant to be the same age given their racquetball rivalry? because the guy looks at least a decade older? And who's Nancy Thompson? (2) taken from Anna Stuart's return to the role on the day of Jason's murder (2a) Why was Iris hosting the birthday party for Felicia? I don't remember them being friendly enough to be given such an honor (2b) Are we to believe that Felicia put in her own extensions? Because she starts the episode with her iconic hairdo, she then puts on some Carly Simon and emerges with a whole new look. (3) Had the writers of AW learned nothing about the use of crumpled photos as red herrings from the triplet fiasco?

Excellent point, Mary's growth is the one part of that story that I can appreciate . Apparently I had this same conversation two years ago

The story contains one of the anti-feminist themes that I hate the most. Mary opts for a quick divorce from Reginald in order to be with Vince. As an audience we are supposed to applaud Mary's humility at not asking for a settlement in order to be with the man she loves, as opposed to the reality that this guy essentially kidnapped her, took her away from her kids, and owed her some cash for pain and suffering. I mean at the very least, Mary could have gotten the house in Paraguay... Also, I agree that Ben makes more sense as a historical character to bring back as a protagonist in the Marley/Jake romance than Dennis. Finally, how far do you imagine Lassiter was from Bay City? I know metaphorically it was a world away. Yet, I wonder practically how much contact the Bay City McKinnons had with the Lassiter McKinnons, given their geographic proximity.

According to the AWP, they sold the restaurant and left to be with MJ in Minnesota. I watched the scene, it was soon after Mary had completed her training as a psychologist and there was dialogue about how she was going to start a practice in their new town. Ada, who co-owned the restaurant with the McKinnons, was there to say goodbye, but there was no mention if she profited from the sale. The Reg/Mary story had so much potential that was wasted. Mary could have been snobbier after living for 17 years in Paraguay with a full household staff (but never learning Spanish). However, the production staff seemed to pattern her after Denise's portrayal of Leslie on GH, rather than knowing her range from seeing her as Susan on Days. There could have been a legitimate triangle with Reg and Vince, given that Mary had only known the benevolent side of Reginald and she might not have liked Vince's controlling nature. Instead, Reginald instantly turned to mustache-twirling villain, Mary immediately accepted life above a restaurant (and never asked for a monetary settlement from the Love's), and most of her kids who were yearning for her return left town within a year. There wasn't even a stated motivation for Reginald to return to Bay City after living abroad. EDIT: I just recalled that John had been studying medicine with the OB-GYN who attended the birth of the twins. Which is how he helped solved the mystery of Donna being haunted by the number of hospital room where she gave birth (does anyone else remember that part of the story, or are there any synopsis from the end of that plot?) and why he was in the picture. However, if he was there, it seems cruel that he let Donna go through all of the strum and drum rather than just filling her in on what he knew.