DRW50

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have not seen enough to give a real opinion of the 50s-70s but of what I've seen I do think Marland was the strongest writer. The only thing I really miss from his vision is more of a spark of life, the type of firecracker Lisa was in her early years, or Margo was in her early years. He did try, with Meg, and later Tess, Marcy, etc. but these women were often so far on the outside (and if they moved inside, like Meg, they lost most of their edge). The Dobsons and whoever replaced them made a lot of mistakes and seemed to just drain the show even further of depth and identity (more location shooting wasn't worth the sacrifices made), but Margaret Colin and Justin Deas do give some of the juice that the very very earnest material surrounding them needed. I think the very dreary younger set was the show's biggest issue, beyond the clump of older characters they had run out of story for - while going through that 1978 episode I genuinely had a hard time telling Sandy apart from Annie, even though Sandy should have been about 20 years older. (also - nothing against Kelly Wood, but something about Mary just irrationally annoys me) I will also give credit to Susan Bedsow Horgan and the others who put so much in place before Marland arrived.

Always better when Haz and Terese/Paul/Toadie/Mel aren't the focus. I think this was one of the show's best weeks since its return, even better because this was just an ordinary week, no big stunts. Almost the entire cast had storyline, which meant less of the padding and isolation that has hurt a lot of the revival. Leo's business struggles had ripple effects for so many people. Holly is still just a plot device, but this was probably the best use of her so far in that role, helped by getting to see her with Karl and by the character acknowledging how crazy her actions were. It was great to see Krista finally get to have some manipulative, scheming moments, after so often just suffering or being in support. Majella Davis is one of the best hires the new show has made and so often she's taken for granted. Depressing as that dungeon-like Eirini Rising set is, the brief Harold scenes add a certain depth to the show for me due to the focus on his ageing and readjustment. There was a lot of focus on letting go, getting older, and regrets through the whole week, with Aaron, Susan, Vic, Harold, Karl, all of which came across as thoughtful and not melodramatic. This also served as a balance to the younger set of JJ, Nell and Dex, giving the show a real multi-generational sense. There were some nice friendship moments too, which Neighbours is generally good at, but I noticed more than usual this week - Haz and Harold, Haz and JJ, Wendy and Terese. This was probably Haz's best week since the first few weeks of the revival. I was also glad to finally see movement in the Jane/Mike story. Jane sitting alone in the dress shop struggling through sorrow and doubt on what was meant to be one of the happiest days of her life was some of the best work Annie Jones has done on the show.

I was thinking more of when Pam Long was there, as Vanessa and Holly were later writers (I'm not sure about Maureen). By the time we got to the '90s I never felt like the show was trying to make him happen, I think he was mostly used as a stopgap for other pairings (Billy/Vanessa, Roger/Holly), but maybe if I disliked him, I would feel differently. Frank I think there was a case for keeping as he always had family around and was a popular figure in the late '80s to mid '90s. I guess he was also very cheap. Tina Sloan has less of a case but I guess she was too (there was a rumor, no idea if it was true, that she was not paid much because she didn't need the money and just wanted to work).

Another case of the shockingly decrepit and rapidly decaying Trump cutting ads for Democrats. (not that this will matter to the selfish people in swing states who vote for proven grifters and trash like Stein and West). https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-reveals-favorite-opponents-1916249

Maeve isn't one of those characters I can see staying around too long even if Leslie hadn't wanted to leave. The Fletcher pairing feels more like an attempt at keeping her around as at this point Fletcher had more ties to the canvas than she did. I can see Fletcher/Alex as an attempt at keeping Fletcher around.

I agree (although he's one of those guys who benefited with age). With other "recurring regular" Michael Cumpsty.

I don't really let things like this on soaps bother me, but given that Ross was often Philip's father figure, and Ross was best friends with Rick's father, knowing they all slept with the same woman is...something.

What did you think of the show in the late '70s? Do you think there were any real mistakes they made or did the show just inevitably lose steam after twenty years?

Until reading the review I had no idea Tom Verica was ever on the show. Verica is one of those actors who floated around TV (my main memory of him was him looking good in his underwear on Central Park West) before hitting it big with Shondaland. He now directs some of her shows.

Thanks @soapfan770 . That may also be why I never saw Kelley's charms. I remember her joining Sisters but by that point I was DONE with that show due to the wrecking ball done to Georgie and her family. I agree with you about Debi Mazar - I know she's mentioned some roles she turned down that could have helped her, but I think that while she's a striking presence, she never was going to be a lot beyond what she was. Yes, the lesbian kiss was such an obvious stunt, and the show wasted Amanda Donohoe so badly - she truly lit up the screen at times. I can't even remember if she had an exit. Or what Abby's exit was either. I do remember liking Conchata more than Tucker did. A few years before she passed she was interviewed by AV Club and seemed hurt by being fired, and then having to go to the Emmys as a nominee after being fired.

I also would have given it to Beaty of the three. JFP did know how to use her ties/good will. AW won a number of Emmys when she produced the show.

I wish more of that Brooke was available. I can see why the show wanted to mature her as they had plenty of other bad girls, but it's always unfortunate to remember how many times we got this through "redeemed by rape" stories.

Debi Mazar and Alan Rosenberg were brought in from Civil Wars or another Bochco show, weren't they? How did they fit into this show? In that last opening, they look like fans who edited themselves into the credits of their favorite program.

The elevator shaft was in the long run a real mistake - shock value that got some buzz but cemented the show as a joke.

@soapfan770 Thank you for tagging me. I think this was around the point I stopped watching. I remember Gwen's introduction and enjoying her as a character (although I never thought Sheila Kelley was especially hot, even though I thought she had a good spark [Ken Tucker must have worn out his DVR when she did pole dancing on Soap Talk!)). That's about as far as I went. I think the show just ran too long. The show, as Tucker mentions, was a product of the late Reagan era. If you watch To Live and Die in LA, you can feel the same haze between them. I remember those early episodes drowning in sunlight, flooding the windows. You could feel the stickiness through the screen. And the early cast had that same pent-up energy and charisma. As the show went on it just became generic, or worse than generic, because they were trying to force wackiness (which also doomed Picket Fences and Northern Exposure). I also don't think characters like Arnie were that compelling to sit through so many years of them. I do think the attempt at making Arnie and Roxanne a couple was just a bad idea.

This also happened with Jerry ver Dorn - some people (fans, at least) were upset that he beat Michael Sutton. Nothing against Michael Sutton, but I was thrilled at the time that Jerry won and I still am today. I would have voted for Maule over Deas though, even if I think Deas did some strong work at times (not in that episode...).

@slick jones shared in the Soap Hoppers thread that Barbara Rucker (Sandy Thompson) passed away five years ago, from Alzheimers. Sandy is such an odd character to me, as she stayed on for such a long time after her split from Bob, surviving recasts and various changes in focus and sliding into the moribund mid/late '70s period. I think there's only one surviving episode of her. Rucker certainly seems to have a classy presence, even if there are so many blondes with the same hairstyles or faces around this point it took me a bit to remember who was who. She and Michael Nader made a very pretty couple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2lb5hXZk9s

https://www.vulture.com/article/remembrance-donald-sutherland-obituary-1935.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/20/movies/donald-sutherland-movies.html @Faulkner Thanks for the Gould article. Unlike Sutherland, Gould often seems forgotten today, aside from occasionally popping up somewhere like SNL. I hope more people appreciate him while he's here. I did not know Sutherland had a falling out with Altman that was never repaired. I guess that explains why they never worked together again - I don't really see him as an Altman-type actor anyway, but I'm sure he would have slotted in somewhere in Nashville or Short Cuts.

I suppose when we know a writer is gay and they write the stories they have written for such a long time, talking about his sexuality can be inevitable. Similar to all the criticism JFP received for being a woman and having so many misogynist stories. I think straight writers or writers we don't know the sexual orientation of also get criticism (I remember the show getting brickbats for the choice to have Will in what was presented as a hot sex scene with Gabi when he was written as gay by that point). I could try to be unbiased, but I guess I just can't very easily when I have so little respect for a writer. That's my own issue, of course.

He's written homophobic storylines for 15 years, repeatedly involving men who sexually harass and assault other men. When it is such a long-running trait of his writing, it's difficult not to call his choices out. I do think they want us to feel sorry for Leo. Many fans did have the same complaints when it came to Sami, EJ, etc. The main difference is those characters had supporters. Leo has few, in spite of being a constant focus for year upon year. So the criticism stands out more.

I'm glad he praised Heather. I can't watch her on B&B but I still miss her on Y&R.

I saw some people speculating she would force him to go to rehab. I watched some of the Tracy scenes today - I can't stop marveling at how such an easy foil/prop for so many years has become arguably the heart of the show. Jane is just so wonderful and adds many layers to her work, allowing the softness of Tracy while not making her a pushover. She's really become a mix of Lila and Edward but not in the way soaps so often signpost and shoehorn ("you're just like _____"). I hope Korte and Valentini and whoever else knows how lucky they are to have Jane.

I don't think he cares about any lgbt fan but himself - this is the man who wrote a story where a gay man faked hate crimes to keep a boyfriend. If this is meant as some kind of a message to Middle America, he should really show them by quitting... And yes maybe this isn't meant to be about his being gay and the promo is just misleading. Either way, I will never feel sorry for a sexual harasser. It's especially offputting given the backstage climate of the show.

Is this the part where they use homophobia to make people feel sorry for Leo? Ron never learns...and at a time of increasingly virulent homophobia in this country too.

Trump and his handlers have also been doing this with the "black church visit" in Detroit. Didn't matter that it was BS (between his paid extras and the white people bused in), the media still ran with it because they need and want to believe he will have huge support from black voters. This is their narrative going back for decades. And now we will get the same in Virginia, with that smirking jackass Youngkin at his side. The Beltway would sell every organ in their body to finally make Youngkin a star. They will push this and do anything they can to will it into being that Trump is on the way to the landslide they yearn for.