DRW50

Thanks. Never heard of this or seen it. Teri had some bad breaks on TV. Patrick really was all over TV in these years. A very unique presence. They also have a pilot up for the attempt at revamping It Had To Be You, and a blog post about their struggles. FAYE DUNAWAY (PART NINE) | Nicholls and Vickers

GL did have some angst-ridden, doomed young couples in the '60s. I don't know if any were signature. Johnny and Peggy might come closest.

It's hard to believe sometimes Cass and Felicia weren't even on the show 20 years. They lived so many lives. You probably remember better than I do. I thought I remembered him saying something briefly about needing to go home to his wife, maybe when he was leaving a party.

It speaks volumes for how much charisma Stephen had that he even had so many popular pairings (and I think Nicole/Cass even had a few fans, although I wasn't one of them). I could swear he mentions her in one appearance but I may be making that up.

Yes. Looking back there are a few culty vibes in the relationship and the wedding, but it's still beautiful. I am also not that aware, compared to people who watched at the time. I wonder if Leslie/Mike are similar to Kim/Dan (I might be going that way as Kathryn played Leslie for a brief time).

We clearly weren't meant to see Kathleen and Cass as a proper couple in her second go-round. They had almost no fun moments together. At their best I would put them over Cass and Frankie. Stephen and Alice worked well together but I find the relationship overrated and a bit dreary at times. I would give Cass and Lila a B.

There are a few other hints of drama with Carrie around her wedding day, like Jackie fearing her and some other hints of her toxic past, but I agree it's mostly low-key. I think Kelly and Morgan may be the first "big" GL wedding I have ever seen. You can tell they put a lot of care into it with the location. Even if it doesn't compare to later glories of budget busting like the Mindy and Kurt wedding. I wonder how Leslie and Mike's wedding was.

@Paul Raven That's totally fair. I do like Susan and she could have clicked as Kathleen.

I don't think a recast Kathleen would have worked. Julie Osburn was what made the character special, as shown in the otherwise iffy material in Kathleen's 1991 return. I do wish they hadn't killed her off. I might have killed off Mary (as it wasn't like they were doing anything of worth with the character anyway) and then Cass would reveal that Kathleen told him she had to get away from everyone to deal with losing her mother again just as she had found her. After a while she could have sent him a note saying she was divorcing him as she needed a clean break from her life in Bay City.

I don't think it matters, although JER having days go on for weeks never made sense to me. When I was a kid, I always liked how early '90s ATWT would show a transition from night to day during an episode with stock footage of a sun over a cityscape. Watching it again through Youtube has been a source of comfort.

The Boudreaus were another case (as happened repeatedly on GL in its last decade or more) where a plan to bring in black characters seemed sabotaged before it even began and the best you were going to get was tokenism. IIRC Richard Biggs and Shari Headley left in no time at all, rightfully so. The main problem with the Mel and Rick relationship was how blatantly plot-driven the material was. They got together very quickly. I didn't believe it. I tried to like them, but I had no real investment. There was something deeply cynical about Rick's heart transplant story, which is the reason I think it had little impact on viewers. You knew he was not going to die. And dumping a new wife and a new child (a year or so after he had already had a child with Harley) on Rick did not change the lack of stakes. The only time Mel was allowed to have more of a personality was when she got sick of Rick's obsession with Beth, but none of that was about her and that whole story was garbage. I did enjoy her flirty final relationship with Cyrus, but that was clearly another case of the show knowing time was almost up and just pairing off characters who were at dead ends.

I am not sure how viewers at the time felt about it, but beyond some of the spats between Barbara and Margo (which would continue through the rest of ATWT's run), I don't actually like the whole plot with Barbara scheming to get Tom and Margo believing that Tom had cheated on her. I know it was done to liven Barbara up after many wan years, but by the standards of most Marland material, the whole thing seems extremely plot-driven. Tom and Margo are never really the same as characters after this (or her miscarriage). I think the other schemes Barbara is thrown into afterward, like bringing Duncan to town to ruin the Shannon/Brian relationship, feel more natural. I know they had to get Barbara from the point of just being the put upon heroine to being a schemer, but I wish they'd found another way.

Considering how many times viewers stuck around with Sonny committing heinous crimes, they probably assume fans will see this as more of the same. To be honest I'm not sure how many fans even care about this instance. I don't keep track of the ratings, but I do wonder if they have improved any after scapegoating Mulcahey. If not, it just shows again how they care more about power games than quality.

I agree. I think if people are still missing the this is my house/I gave it to her era, what the place is now must seem alien. And it maybe doesn't have enough character. Still, I'm glad they have kept the mansion and enhanced its importance, and while Tracy is still there you can still see some of the depth of earlier years.

I remember praise for JJ's work (beyond criticism of the heavy crying), but less for the material, as so much was grotesque (telling Liz that the only time he loved her was when she was bleeding in the snow from a rape) and depressing. I would classify that as a failure and I felt like others did at the time (including JJ himself, to a point), but I shouldn't speak for anyone else. The main difference for me with Lois and Lucky is that I think Lois was a part of a very specific time and place on GH. Even by the time she left, she didn't really fit in (in my opinion). And most of what worked with the character for viewers was that early spark with Wally Kurth and that Lois was brash and fun. Even with Ned and Brooklyn still around, Lois had been gone so long and her era of the show was so distant of a memory, I don't think there was a huge hole in the canvas via her absence. That shouldn't have been the case with Lucky, in either of his returns. The first time he had his father there, this time his mother. Both times he had Liz. This time he has a son. And while Lois was a well-loved character, she was never a part of the long-term legacy of GH in a way that Lucky should have been. Yet neither of JJ's returns ever really has clicked, in my opinion. And I do wonder why. I could blame Frank and Guza, and I will, but I do wonder how much JJ is forever going to be that boy viewers remember hero worshipping Luke and getting into scrapes and letting Foster run riot. Given how pointless Lois being back could have been, I have actually enjoyed Rena's return more than I expected, especially since I was never that into the character. She isn't getting what she should, but she does still somehow have a natural bond with Amanda Setton (in spite of how apathetic Setton is) and in the TARDIS-like Q mansion setup these days. (the stuff about her voice not so much but it wasn't anything horrible) There's a certain naturalness at forming bonds which still isn't there with Lucky. I think because there wasn't as much baggage over Lois' head, no history of her being a deadbeat or what have you, that just has to be awkwardly half-handled with Lucky. I don't really know if there was ever momentum (the ratings certainly didn't reflect it), but I do think most would give him credit over her. I've actually never seen anyone praise her, anywhere.

I think there's a throughline from his last OLTL years to here - namely the period where he decided to just triple down on the Fords and going back a bit before that where he did nothing to stop Ron's sickness as a writer. I guess you could say at least he was supporting a vision there, whereas he isn't here, but there is a gaping hole in both programs where any identity used to be. I have to assume Ron was the only one who had a "vision" and without him Frank has simply never cared.

I don't believe it's solely down to the writers. This is how Frank shows, or often just modern soaps, often are. Going back to Frank, if you go all the way back to his OLTL run, this is what you tend to get. He presided over the end of OLTL and even then the only hints of emotion were down to some of the longtime cast members, never, ever anything from him. He's just there to keep the budget under control and chop everything into bits. With that said, Lucky's return likely would have failed no matter what, as it already did under a regime that many would say is much better than this one. Too much time being spent with her clinging to Sonny and all the confusing stuff about the pills...it didn't feel as much about her having an edge as her likely being the scapegoat to help exonerate Sonny with the people of Port Charles after her probable death. I never believed any of the anti-Sonny stuff, whether under Mulcahey or not. I know how that game ends.

I didn't understand anything being done with Ava (it felt like they were mostly rushing to her death), but then Ava is not any coherent character so what else is new. I do think Cynthia Watros finally got some wonderful chances as Nina. I know a lot of Nina fans hated what the show was doing with her, but I do wonder how they feel now. I hated the treatment of the Quartermaines (the same few scenes of banter followed by "good" characters degrading them, often while living under their home), but I suppose I can see why people miss those days compared to how barren the atmosphere at the mansion is now - I'm very glad the place is still being used but it feels like a community center more than a home. I give more credit to the Q actors (well the older actors, anyway) from that era than anyone else, and beyond Jane Elliott, they're all gone. (I know Wally Kurth is still there - not a big fan, sorry)

Considering how confused and clunky many motivations were even in his return, I'd say that most of the writers aren't allowed to write for character even if they want to.

I would agree, but then Sam was in the same boat (I actually think there were more viable paths for Sam than for the Carly of recent years). Admittedly Kelly was not in the same position backstage Laura is in, due to many factors, but I think the show finally writing her out just shines more of a light on how spent characters like Carly, Jason and Sonny feel. It's just that the show also doesn't make any effort to bring in new characters viewers should invest in. They had a good thing going with Liz's sons, mostly played by decent actors and tied to the past, present, and future, but that was all squandered and now we're left with a 30 year old Aidan.

I don't think the show should bother with gay characters unless they are going to treat them as genuine presences, but even beyond that, I feel like the Spencers are pretty much done, unless they heavily invest in Lucky, Liz, and her kids (which doesn't seem likely). Carly, Michael and Carly Jr. are black holes and Lucas has limited ties to them. And the Jerome side of Lucas is all gone now. I don't know what his future is. I know I've already said that enough as it is though.

I'd be surprised if Jackson returned expecting anything of quality. Money talks. No soap genuinely cares about lgbtq characters. It's just lip service. The show only even made a statement against racism because of racist trolling, and proceeded to even further marginalize the actress who was targeted. I don't even know what Lucas should feel like. The character has never had any real voice beyond Ryan Carnes being a likeable, low-key presence. There was no reason to bring him back beyond said lip service.

Glad I've never had any use for RSW. I did have sympathy in the past for some of what was said about Freddie Smith but clearly people knew more about him than I did. https://bsky.app/profile/chipturner.bsky.social/post/3lawb572wok2v I unfollowed Freddie Smith and it looks like Robert Scott Wilson liked his post so I unfollowed him, too, on IG. anyone that helped Cheeto get elected I want no part of.

Glad you got to see them. I was surprised by the production quality compared to what I've seen of the show. I agree that I hope more appears...anything, really.

Thanks. So I guess Guza just went off on his own plans for Jason deification after they left. I do agree with what you and others have said about that aspect of GH, although it must have been in the '00s I didn't watch as much. Beyond some strong moments around the time of the rape revisitation and Bobbie lying to Luke that Lucky had died, I don't remember many standout individual scenes from Guza's 98-00 run.