12 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

yo spoiler alert

It was in the previews at the end of Friday's show so we already know it happens. I assumed previews on screen weren't really spoilers.

1 hour ago, ranger1rg said:

-- @DramatistDreamer I feel the same about Vanessa and Joey. The writing is at best all over the place.

Makes no sense to me that she wants to chop it up with Leslie. And yes, she constantly talks about loving Joey for who she is, even though we're getting all these discussions about how he needs changes in his life.

Regardless, why is Joey listening to her? He had an off screen talk with Marcel and hated it. That was followed by another one of Joey's "I like myself as I am" speeches that we've had a dozen of.

We've had 14 months of wondering if Vanessa had some ulterior motive and plan regarding Joey. Is that what this is? Because I'm tired of it.

-- The more talk we get about this free clinic (which now will offer free dental work!) the more it's clear that not having a clinic set is a mistake.

I love that this show is run and written by women, but show feminity toxicity in spades with almost all of their female characters.

• Dani and her manipulative crying routine in order to get Andre to comfort her just because Chelsea established boundaries.

• Vanessa being a whore, a bad mother, a bad business woman, and trying to change a man (which is written as being empowering, yet if a man tries to change a woman.. he's a plain old misogynist)

• SPS and the SA of Ted, the way she talks down to the white characters with borderline bigoted comments (i.e Vanessa and Derek)

• Naomi and her constantly cutting down on Jacob, who is nothing but a saint to deal with her.

• Chelsea and her tendency to make everything in her relationship with Madison all about her (This is why you need to hold off on the U Haul LOL)

• Lia... say no more LOL

Now do I enjoy watching the show? I do, but I also know that toxicity reigns supreme on this show and I wish that it was equal and that we had more male toxic behavior to even out the female toxic behavior. The best books written thrived on toxicity and forbidden things ( The Thorn Birds, Any book written by Danielle Steel, Any Judith Krantz novel, etc).

So to the poster/s that call Joey and Bill misogynist... I say to them... Thank God! They're the most interesting characters because they are toxic and not written to be anything but toxic... while the female characters are being portrayed as 'empowering'. However, you can put lipstick on a pig, it's still going to be a pig.