Vanessa playing Joey seems unlikely from everything that went down. I only did think it was possible around the time Doug died, because I, at the time, didn't think Doug was dead. I assumed he had been tipped off by Randy and either he or Doug told Vanessa. Then, Vanessa had to keep up the act while Doug plotted revenge. However, as already mentioned as more time has gone on, it does seem less likely that Doug is plotting some comeback to bring down Joey.

Vanessa doesn't need to be tied to any comeback, in fact, if she is shocked by it, so much the better.

People didn't want to believe that Vanessa is who she actually is (I was willing to entertain the idea that Vanessa was not dumb enough to become a gangster's moll), but we all witnessed her make a cuckold of her husband and not regret one moment of it, so why would anyone believe she cared about helping the husband she never loved? If they do try to retcon Vanessa, it would only be because the writers have written her into a corner and are trying to rescue her from the bin. I say, leave her in the bin.

2 hours ago, MontyB said:

Doug is not dead.....

Hmmmmm.......

That was my theory from day 1 since we didn't see anything after Marcel was approaching Doug.. and we never really saw a body. I was assuming that Marcel was working with someone (maybe Vernon and/or Elon) to get the goods on Joey.

I have a feeling that Joey is looking like the savior, but I have a feeling he's due for a fall.

4 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Vanessa doesn't need to be tied to any comeback, in fact, if she is shocked by it, so much the better.

People didn't want to believe that Vanessa is who she actually is (I was willing to entertain the idea that Vanessa was not dumb enough to become a gangster's moll), but we all witnessed her make a cuckold of her husband and not regret one moment of it, so why would anyone believe she cared about helping the husband she never loved? If they do try to retcon Vanessa, it would only be because the writers have written her into a corner and are trying to rescue her from the bin. I say, leave her in the bin.

I think it would be interesting and fascinating to see Vanessa climb her way out of the bin and try to get back into everyone's good graces.

OMG, I loved today's episode. From the character development over the past 13 months, to the family drama with the McBride's, to Joey having Hayley's number, to Kat getting Naomi involved with the Hayley shenanigans and Kat and Donnell bonding. Because I care about the characters today's episode was that more thrilling.

49 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I think it would be interesting and fascinating to see Vanessa climb her way out of the bin and try to get back into everyone's good graces.

That would be good soap. Doug confronting her ass at the cotillion and making it known to all of high society what trash she really is. Then Vanessa would have to claw her way back into the gates - might have to make good with Hayley and Leslie otherwise.

1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

That would be good soap. Doug confronting her ass at the cotillion and making it known to all of high society what trash she really is. Then Vanessa would have to claw her way back into the gates - might have to make good with Hayley and Leslie otherwise.

God I love this but I just have this sinking feeling the Cotillion will either be off screen or just as anticlimactic as Winter Fest and the clinic opening.

9 hours ago, GLATWT88 said:

Does she? Maybe I am biased, but I feel like Kat is usually initiating the bad blood between them. Well aside from Eva sleeping with her man.. oop

Yes. She does. There have been times Kat have had conversations or is civil and Eva has been just as nasty to her.

6 hours ago, GLATWT88 said:

hat would be good soap. Doug confronting her ass at the cotillion and making it known to all of high society what trash she really is. Then Vanessa would have to claw her way back into the gates - might have to make good with Hayley and Leslie otherwise.

I would love that.

5 hours ago, Antoyne said:

God I love this but I just have this sinking feeling the Cotillion will either be off screen or just as anticlimactic as Winter Fest and the clinic opening.

I am hoping more anniversary party...proving that this show has a thing about May reveals, but time will tell.

7 hours ago, Antoyne said:

God I love this but I just have this sinking feeling the Cotillion will either be off screen or just as anticlimactic as Winter Fest and the clinic opening.

They're not spending any money on this cotillion storyline at all or they would have had a few dayplayers and under 5s in scenes with Samantha, Tyrell, Tyrell's girlfriend and Alexandra's granddaughter (what's her name?) so that we can see Tyrell's struggle with the dancing, see Alexandra's granddaughter outshine Samantha in the walk (or whatever it was) instead of hearing Samantha whine about it. Or see Kat and Naomi go dress shopping with Samantha (or at least be seen with shopping bags talking about it afterwards). Hell, these are wealthy and well-connected people, they could have a stylist meet with Samantha and do a virtual try-on of designer dresses. This cotillion feels like a concept rather than a real milestone event or coming of age story. It's totally abstract, like most of the potentially interesting events, occurring offscreen.

I cant express to you how much Im loving my girl Hayley. She's hilarious and really having fun with this role! She's getting extra sassy, messy and of course sloppy and it makes for an interesting watch. She's my MVP right now

Honorable mention goes to Deanna. The actress sounds mousy and that can be annoying but it works for the character being fragile and volatile bc she has fire to her. The way she dragged Vanessa.....even I felt that

8 hours ago, Antoyne said:

God I love this but I just have this sinking feeling the Cotillion will either be off screen or just as anticlimactic as Winter Fest and the clinic opening.

I dont think it will bc there was a casting call for the event a few months ago for people that seemed like would play parents. At the very least they are bringing in extras for it so it should be big. Unlike the clinic, they actually have a set for this, which presumably will be at the country club

36 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

I cant express to you how much Im loving my girl Hayley. She's hilarious and really having fun with this role! She's getting extra sassy, messy and of course sloppy and it makes for an interesting watch. She's my MVP right now

Honorable mention goes to Deanna. The actress sounds mousy and that can be annoying but it works for the character being fragile and volatile bc she has fire to her. The way she dragged Vanessa.....even I felt that

I am loving them both.

31 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

I dont think it will bc there was a casting call for the event a few months ago for people that seemed like would play parents. At the very least they are bringing in extras for it so it should be big. Unlike the clinic, they actually have a set for this, which presumably will be at the country club

More reason for me to believe they are treating the cotillion like they treated the anniversary party. So as long as they handle the fallout well, it will be a great set of episodes.

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

They're not spending any money on this cotillion storyline at all or they would have had a few dayplayers and under 5s in scenes with Samantha, Tyrell, Tyrell's girlfriend and Alexandra's granddaughter (what's her name?) so that we can see Tyrell's struggle with the dancing, see Alexandra's granddaughter outshine Samantha in the walk (or whatever it was) instead of hearing Samantha whine about it. Or see Kat and Naomi go dress shopping with Samantha (or at least be seen with shopping bags talking about it afterwards). Hell, these are wealthy and well-connected people, they could have a stylist meet with Samantha and do a virtual try-on of designer dresses. This cotillion feels like a concept rather than a real milestone event or coming of age story. It's totally abstract, like most of the potentially interesting events, occurring offscreen.

10 hours ago, Antoyne said:

God I love this but I just have this sinking feeling the Cotillion will either be off screen or just as anticlimactic as Winter Fest and the clinic opening.

1 hour ago, Cheap21 said:

I dont think it will bc there was a casting call for the event a few months ago for people that seemed like would play parents. At the very least they are bringing in extras for it so it should be big. Unlike the clinic, they actually have a set for this, which presumably will be at the country club

I am holding onto faith that this cotillion storyline will be explosive and will actually be the convergence of several storylines with a big climax. Here's hoping @Taoboi theory about May is correct and we get what we have been waiting for, otherwise these stories seem to be spinning their wheels - lots of exposition but not actually going anywhere.

@DramatistDreamer I get what you are saying about not seeing all those scenes leading up to the cotillion and that would have been lovely to see because it is something this soap is severely lacking - showing not telling. However, budgets are not what they once were so I am being hopeful they may be saving their pennies to really make this cotillion eventful for viewers by pulling all the stops.

I just don't want to get too hopeful and be let down like Winterfest which was a total bust.

1 hour ago, Cheap21 said:

I cant express to you how much Im loving my girl Hayley. She's hilarious and really having fun with this role! She's getting extra sassy, messy and of course sloppy and it makes for an interesting watch. She's my MVP right now

Honorable mention goes to Deanna. The actress sounds mousy and that can be annoying but it works for the character being fragile and volatile bc she has fire to her. The way she dragged Vanessa.....even I felt that

I have grown to like Hayley so much more since her true intentions were finally revealed. I crack up every time she gets annoyed, even more so with the goody two-shoes like Naomi and Ashley. Something so satisfying about seeing her disgust and their sympathy or concern. Like mind your business. I don't want your performative acts of pity.