1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

In 1969, there were 19 soaps that accounted for 9.5 hours of daytime programming. In 1976, those 15 soaps still accounted for 9.5 hours of programming because several soaps increased their runtime. In fact, the 12 soaps in 1989 were probably the most soap opera programming in daytime ever (based on time) as all 3 networks had 3.5 hours of soap programming each day, a total of 10.5 hours of soap opera programming in daytime. From 1991-1999, soaps made up 10 hours of programming each day (as NBC never returned to 3.5 hrs after Generations was cancelled and ABC continued it's half hour with Loving, The City, and PC). In 2005, there were 8.5 hours of soaps each day and just 2 years earlier in 2003 there was 9 hours. We all know what ends up happening between 2007 - 2011.

Thank you for your analysis. I began thinking about gross numbers of soaps & specifically remembering when we had 19 soaps & later when we had 14 soaps. Of course the network expansion made a huge difference, although I'm not sure it was a good difference. 

 

1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

I think the shift in soap programming began in the 1999 with AW's cancelation and NBC opting for only two hours of programming.

That's when I think the first grievous error in canceling was made. I think 5 NY soaps should still be on the air - AW, ATWT, GL, AMC & OLTL. Of course, they'd be very different. 

 

1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

Then ABC getting rid of its half hour block in 2003. With Passions gone in 2007 and NBC holding on to a single hour, the other networks soon followed the trend. But it wasn't all necessarily the networks fault, viewership has continued to free fall. 

And it was predictable that viewership would fall & it fell in primetime, too. The only hope was that the soaps would do something to make a difference in the predictability, like reinventing themselves, again. 

1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

I honestly think storytelling sucks in daytime right now. Since COVID i have tried to get back into soaps and not a single one has enticed me to continue watching beyond a day or two. Even in the 2000s soaps had more excitement and allure. I honestly watch GH, DAYS, YR, and BB and I can't get into any of it. It's like nothing is happening and nothing about any of it reads soap. The odd thing is that many of these soaps have tried to evolve to feel less like soap operas (imo) but are telling stories that are formulaic and played out. So you lose the soap feel, and get tired storylines on top of that. 

My criticisms of the 2 soaps I watch are all in the Writing, although one is their use of personnel but you could call it all about story-telling. 

19 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Thank you for your analysis. I began thinking about gross numbers of soaps & specifically remembering when we had 19 soaps & later when we had 14 soaps. Of course the network expansion made a huge difference, although I'm not sure it was a good difference. 

 

That's when I think the first grievous error in canceling was made. I think 5 NY soaps should still be on the air - AW, ATWT, GL, AMC & OLTL. Of course, they'd be very different. 

 

And it was predictable that viewership would fall & it fell in primetime, too. The only hope was that the soaps would do something to make a difference in the predictability, like reinventing themselves, again. 

My criticisms of the 2 soaps I watch are all in the Writing, although one is their use of personnel but you could call it all about story-telling. 

I assume networks thought it was a safer bet to expand soaps that were working instead of filling a slot with a new soap that might potentially fail. I wonder what the cost difference is for running an hour long soap vs 2 half hour soaps. I always hoped that GL would have reverted to half an hour before it got to the Peapack era. ATWT could have done the same and both could have filled an hour time slot. Same could have been done for OLTL and AMC. 

 

1 hour ago, GLATWT88 said:

I assume networks thought it was a safer bet to expand soaps that were working instead of filling a slot with a new soap that might potentially fail. I wonder what the cost difference is for running an hour long soap vs 2 half hour soaps. I always hoped that GL would have reverted to half an hour before it got to the Peapack era. ATWT could have done the same and both could have filled an hour time slot. Same could have been done for OLTL and AMC. 

 

When they pushed the network expansion on the shows they knew a few things. (1) It would cost more than twice as much to do it. (2) Have to hire & keep in employ more actors. (3) Need more space for sets & stuff. (4) It would increase revenue for the networks only. 

So there is the lousy deal they made. Lin Bolen sold AW on it & everything Lemay dreamed of getting out of it creatively did not happen & he became disenchanted. Nixon was completely against it but ABC gave her more studio space, etc. so they used the carrot. Bell was just as against it & he refused to bend any amount so they used the stick. CBS said they were going to one hour with him or without him, he could choose. Labine was just as against it & she & Paul Avila Mayer just did not do it. 

But the other point is that starting up a new soap is the most terrifying business decision because of the record of all the failures. 

25 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

I wonder what the cost difference is for running an hour long soap vs 2 half hour soaps

It was quickly established that running an hour soap was cheaper than 2 30 min soaps. 

In most areas ,although it was more costly expanding, it still came in cheaper and pretty much assured the same ratings throughout the hour.

No of actors, sets, costumes and BTS crew all less on one soap than 2.

2 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

When they pushed the network expansion on the shows they knew a few things. (1) It would cost more than twice as much to do it. (2) Have to hire & keep in employ more actors. (3) Need more space for sets & stuff. (4) It would increase revenue for the networks only. 

1. It didn't cost twice as much. Yes they had to employ more actors and BTS crew but not as much as mounting 2 separate shows.

2/3  Yes but shows did not double the casts or have twice as many sets. 

4. True and that is why they wanted it. When AW expanded the second half hour scored a 30 share whereas How To Survive A Marriage had around a 20 or less.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

It was quickly established that running an hour soap was cheaper than 2 30 min soaps. 

Nothing I read on the subject considered the cost of 2 half hour soaps since that would not be a perspective that a soap in question would be considering. Like other factors it was a perspective from the network view. 

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 

4. True and that is why they wanted it. When AW expanded the second half hour scored a 30 share whereas How To Survive A Marriage had around a 20 or less.

 And here again the benefit accrued not to the show itself, but to the network. 

However, once the concept had been introduced & attempted successfully, of course, the show would gain an indirect benefit because they would be more attractive to a network or sponsor, etc. to get them &/or to keep them. 

 

Edited July 22, 20232 yr by Donna L. Bridges
typo

8 hours ago, carolineg said:

That's a real savage take.  I was calling her too old for the part, but I don't think the poor girl needs botox or plastic surgery.  She just needs to be fired.  I for sure joked about her appearance, but to suggest she alter her physical appearance to pretend to be 25 on a soap that has few viewers is pretty aggressive.  She's not going to look 25 even with the best fillers, so call it a loss.  

What I would do is swap Ella Lentini (Betty) and Brooke Anne Smith (Molly); it is clear they were both auditioned for Molly, and they chose Smith over Lentini; clearly, the former had something the latter didn't for further down the line, but I just... do not see it.

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

It was quickly established that running an hour soap was cheaper than 2 30 min soaps. 

Is it, though? I mean, The Bold and the Beautiful, from what I've read, tapes four-to-five episodes per day (or scenes for that many episodes), while the others do around half of that?

2 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Is it, though? I mean, The Bold and the Beautiful, from what I've read, tapes four-to-five episodes per day (or scenes for that many episodes), while the others do around half of that?

Per Scott McKinsey, Dir., DAYS does 8 episodes per week. He posted that last week in answer to a question. Also indicated that there's no way they could get more than that. So, what you're saying, Yeah, right. 

More about content: I've discovered some posters who do a permanent status or topic "STFU". Clever & fitting. Currently GH STFUs apply to Portia, Gladys, Dr. Montague, Mason stays in it. Finn & Gregory are frequently in. All as you would expect.

Lately, I've taken to posting "Liz, run!" and there's a pic out from the show where she looks like Finn's prisoner. Ick. 

Edited July 22, 20232 yr by Donna L. Bridges
combining

1 hour ago, Liberty City said:

What I would do is swap Ella Lentini (Betty) and Brooke Anne Smith (Molly); it is clear they were both auditioned for Molly, and they chose Smith over Lentini; clearly, the former had something the latter didn't for further down the line, but I just... do not see it.

Is it, though? I mean, The Bold and the Beautiful, from what I've read, tapes four-to-five episodes per day (or scenes for that many episodes), while the others do around half of that?

Yeah, the obvious answer is to replace Smith or rest Molly.  I have said more than enough about the whole Molly thing.   It is what it is.   I just thought suggesting BAS needs surgery to look younger....is not the right solution.   She never should have been set up to be in this position in the first place.  Idk, I know I am part of the problem, but I am truly starting to feel bad for her now.  The internet is (sometimes hilariously) roasting her and BAS probably did not know Molly was previously played by a 25 year when she took the job.  I am being THAT person and a hypocrite, but I highly doubt we'd be making jokes about TJ if he was recast with a 39 year old actor.

So anyway, want to talk about GT as Skye again?  Lol..

5 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Yeah, the obvious answer is to replace Smith or rest Molly.  I have said more than enough about the whole Molly thing.   It is what it is.   I just thought suggesting BAS needs surgery to look younger....is not the right solution.   She never should have been set up to be in this position in the first place.  Idk, I know I am part of the problem, but I am truly starting to feel bad for her now.  The internet is (sometimes hilariously) roasting her and BAS probably did not know Molly was previously played by a 25 year when she took the job.  I am being THAT person and a hypocrite, but I highly doubt we'd be making jokes about TJ if he was recast with a 39 year old actor.

Wait... someone said Smith should... get work done to appear younger? How f**ked is that?! My God... how gross. And gosh... I can't even begin to imagine the chemistry with TJ.... poor thing.

5 minutes ago, carolineg said:

So anyway, want to talk about GT as Skye again?  Lol..

YES!

Also... fi-core material begins airing Tuesday for General Hospital so.... brace yourselves!

6 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Wait... someone said Smith should... get work done to appear younger? How f**ked is that?! My God... how gross. And gosh... I can't even begin to imagine the chemistry with TJ.... poor thing.

YES!

Also... fi-core material begins airing Tuesday for General Hospital so.... brace yourselves!

Yeah, that's the initial post I was replying to.  It's funny to a point and I love a good meme, but I do have a modicum of taste and don't want BAS to become a Kardashian because a bunch of people on the internet think she's too old for a part on a soap. 

From past experience I don't think the fi-core stuff will be bad on GH just nothing will happen.  That's seem to be the case in recent years.  Stories just stall a lot.

Who would you cast as Lila rae?  I would love for her to blow into town a spoiled princess ala Brenda and mix it up with Cam.

10 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Yeah, that's the initial post I was replying to.  It's funny to a point and I love a good meme, but I do have a modicum of taste and don't want BAS to become a Kardashian because a bunch of people on the internet think she's too old for a part on a soap.

EXACTLY! She is a beautiful woman, who despite looking young for her age, does look her age, and there is nothing with that. At all.

11 minutes ago, carolineg said:

From past experience I don't think the fi-core stuff will be bad on GH just nothing will happen.  That's seem to be the case in recent years.  Stories just stall a lot.

I remember the last time we had fi-core material, and I really enjoyed it. Garin Wolf took over as head writer, and he really did shake things up. Monica was brought back into play, and I adored it. Some scenes during that time:

I can only hope this round of fi-core writing isn't micro-managed by Disney-ABC as the past few writing regimes have been, and they're allowed to [hopefully] condense and shake things up a bit. But... it's doubtful.

17 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Who would you cast as Lila rae?  I would love for her to blow into town a spoiled princess ala Brenda and mix it up with Cam.

It depends on where she is placed, age-range wise. Obviously, a SORAS would happen, but would it be to the age ground of Danny & Jake, or a bit older into the Josslyn, Trina & co. camp. But, if she was around the age group of Josslyn & Trina, then here's how I would do it:

A mischevious Lila Rae (Lauren Boles, ex-Ciara, Days of Our Lives; Emily Alyn Lind) would arrive in Port Charles making some major waves, and causing some major headaches for the Quartermaine family. And she's followed her boyfriend to town, who happens to be a college-dropout Cameron (if William Lipton is unavailable, return Cade McWatt to the role), much to the chargin of his own mother, Elizabeth Webber. Soon, Lila Rae's mother, Skye (Gina Tognoni) returns to town, alongside Jackson Montgomery; she is not only revealed to be one of Martin's ex-wives, but also the person working alongside Tracy (much to everyone's surprise) to uncovering the Deceptor/Deception as a company. Of course, things would have to be flushed out... but I think it'd be a fun story to tell.

If we want to keep Lila Rae a bit younger, perhaps Mckenna Grace (ex-Faith, The Young and the Restless) would be another suitable recast.

Mckenna Grace is not coming back to daytime. She's hitting it pretty big in film and TV.

9 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

EXACTLY! She is a beautiful woman, who despite looking young for her age, does look her age, and there is nothing with that. At all.

I remember the last time we had fi-core material, and I really enjoyed it. Garin Wolf took over as head writer, and he really did shake things up. Monica was brought back into play, and I adored it. Some scenes during that time:

I can only hope this round of fi-core writing isn't micro-managed by Disney-ABC as the past few writing regimes have been, and they're allowed to [hopefully] condense and shake things up a bit. But... it's doubtful.

It depends on where she is placed, age-range wise. Obviously, a SORAS would happen, but would it be to the age ground of Danny & Jake, or a bit older into the Josslyn, Trina & co. camp. But, if she was around the age group of Josslyn & Trina, then here's how I would do it:

A mischevious Lila Rae (Lauren Boles, ex-Ciara, Days of Our Lives; Emily Alyn Lind) would arrive in Port Charles making some major waves, and causing some major headaches for the Quartermaine family. And she's followed her boyfriend to town, who happens to be a college-dropout Cameron (if William Lipton is unavailable, return Cade McWatt to the role), much to the chargin of his own mother, Elizabeth Webber. Soon, Lila Rae's mother, Skye (Gina Tognoni) returns to town, alongside Jackson Montgomery; she is not only revealed to be one of Martin's ex-wives, but also the person working alongside Tracy (much to everyone's surprise) to uncovering the Deceptor/Deception as a company. Of course, things would have to be flushed out... but I think it'd be a fun story to tell.

If we want to keep Lila Rae a bit younger, perhaps Mckenna Grace (ex-Faith, The Young and the Restless) would be another suitable recast.

Listen, I hope after BAS runs her course at GH she lives her best life on Hallmark TV.  She looks perfect for those romcoms.  Pretty, busy single mom of 2 fits her a lot better lol.

I like your idea of tying Skye to the deceptor.  As I have stated before, I am not the biggest fan of bringing AMC/OLTL peeps to GH.  I feel like GH has a lot of their own characters to bring back (side eye at Lucky).  I would make Lila Rae around Joss/Trina's age, but keep her a lovable vixen and not a psycho like Esme.  I would also bring back Brenda's son and make him gay.  I think @Vee suggested that and I like that idea.

 

Just now, carolineg said:

Listen, I hope after BAS runs her course at GH she lives her best life on Hallmark TV.  She looks perfect for those romcoms.  Pretty, busy single mom of 2 fits her a lot better lol.

I could even see her in one of those "my babysitter is a killer" films on Lifetime. I really do.

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

I like your idea of tying Skye to the deceptor.  As I have stated before, I am not the biggest fan of bringing AMC/OLTL peeps to GH.  I feel like GH has a lot of their own characters to bring back (side eye at Lucky).  I would make Lila Rae around Joss/Trina's age, but keep her a lovable vixen and not a psycho like Esme.  I would also bring back Brenda's son and make him gay.  I think @Vee suggested that and I like that idea.

I only suggested Jackson, because I really enjoyed his episodes, and feel like his connection to Anna would be a nice tie to the canvas. We need a powerhouse lawyer and he could be that.

And Alec Barrett being gay would be awesome! I always suspected Aiden & Danny would be the "young" gay couple, in their high school years, with a sudden discovery of "star-crossed lovers". Or even mirror Hollyoaks would Alec being the third-wheel in their web, falling for one of them, making the other crazy with a lover's jealous.

I'd also welcome a recast Lucas back to the canvas around the time of Bobbie's death/funeral, etc. and re-integrate him into the General Hospital staff, explaining he's been out of town at medical conferences, etc. There are honestly plenty of former characters I'd bring back and replace with some current players.

2 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Also... fi-core material begins airing Tuesday for General Hospital so.... brace yourselves!

Is it gonna be Gary Tomlin?