5 hours ago, Taoboi said:

I LOVE YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

 

This was so juicy. And holds up to what she said years ago....with more specific details. 

 

Wow. I would have liked to see some of that. And for what made it on air, I liked hearing how you described her thought processes.  

 

But yeah...if networks are really interfering with great story ideas in such an extreme, it's no wonder no one wants to be a HW. 

My

So a GENERATION reboot? I would be down for see Doreen again. lol. But I might have to find time and try to see if I can listen, it sounds like a writer's interview. 

 

I liked Mike/Carrie 😜 But I'm a sucker for unrequited (at first) love that turns into something else. And yes...it definitely was a case of a writer noticing things on scene and turning toward it. 

Her best story there if I remember correctly. 

My theory why the killing pool story was so good was because Reilly probably helped her pace the story.

Sussman seemed to have good ideas, just was lousy at pacing the stories.

4 minutes ago, Darn said:

Yeah they understand that the audience loves her but they don't want to see her as a lead because she's not whatever they've deemed attractive enough. Instead we have Melissa Ordway, who no one would notice was missing if they replaced her with an eggshell colored piece of plywood in a blonde wig in the middle of a scene

The sheer volume of years I have had to endure people telling me Melissa Ordway will soar with the right pairing simply by virtue of Abby's DNA astonishes me.

I know people hated the Hilary/Devon/Mariah angle at the time and I know it was poorly done but I think with the right writing it could've run and run. So could Summer/Kyle/Mariah/another less boring non-Tessa woman, so could a lot of options.

It was clear at the time (just as it was in McPherson and Thomas' DAYS, another very flawed rare bird I championed against the odds) that the day to day micromanagement, budget issues and oversight on the daily writing heavily mangle what they try to do with the plotting. I remember people roasting key details of the business stories they attempted with Lauren, Devon, Hilary, etc. live. And they were fair to do so. But I think it all goes back less to what's on the unedited page and more to the institutional rot, micromanagement and defeat of quality control that wasn't there 20-30 years ago.

Edited January 19, 20233 yr by Vee

 

It's an opinion show, but there should still be more professionalism when interviewing someone. Hell, even when Sally suggested Brad could get a story consultant, the co-host said "Michele Van Jean is there!" That is not her job and now you're shifting the blame to someone you know Sally is close with? I get opinions, but you can't listen to that interview and tell me they executed what they were trying to say well.

I wish I could mute the hosts and just listen to Sally.

 did these people talk about her hubby at all?

The hosts are horrid, so that makes it difficult to listen.  

Here's what she said that I found interesting ---

(1)  She'd watched Y&R since 1973.  She'd watched a few other soaps before (Edge of Night, Secret Storm, and All My Children), but she was instantly captivated with Y&R.  Bill Bell asked her what drew her to the show.  She said, "Bill, I like the show because it's a mood piece.  That's what makes it beautiful and captivating.  [Obviously, that aspect of the show is now out the window entirely.]

(2) She said of all the shows that had expanded from 30 minutes to an hour, Y&R had the roughest, rockiest, most turbulent transition.  

(3)  In 1982, she attended a writers workshop.  In late 1982, she put her "skills" to use and wrote a long-term story projection for Y&R, based on what was airing in late 1982.  Bill Bell read it and was impressed and hired her to work as his story consultant.  She said it was because he was extremely frustrated in late 1982, due to the show having dropped so far in the ratings during the transition to an hour.  

(4)  She was only 26 years old when Bill Bell hired her in late 1982/early 1983.  

(5)  Writing for the show is currently difficult, because of the SET restrictions.  You have to use certain sets.  They can't be moved; they can't be changed, because it causes budgetary problems.  Therefore, a number of things you'd like to SHOW HAPPENING, instead must be recapped in Crimson Lights.  

(6)  She never specifically mentioned "Black Lives Matter".  She said that her projection (which CBS nixed in 2016) was that Devon and Hillary would have a fight, Devon would drive away angrily, he would be speeding, he would be stopped by the police, he would get out of the car with an angry, bitter, combative attitude -- she said he would be a complete "a-hole" to the police -- and they would be unnecessarily brutal to him because of his belligerent attitude.  She thought it would be an interesting storyline, with multiple facets, because no one in the altercation was completely right and no one was completely wrong.  [Sorry, but this is the type of storyline that soaps did extremely well in the 1970s and 1980s when they were at the top of their game, before all the evil twins and doppelgangers.  This would've been a much more provocative storyline, in my opinion, than anything we've seen on Y&R in 20 years.]    

That set/budget issue is crippling the show.

Still doesn't explain how random sets sometimes appear.

Smart writers/producers should have scaled back on the business stories and let Jabot be the main business. Jack/Kyle/Ashley/Lily/Billy/Abby etc could all be working there.

That business has history with the show and far more relatable than some media company that we have no idea of what they do and seems to change direction and leadership every few months.

6 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

 

Smart writers/producers should have scaled back on the business stories and let Jabot be the main business. Jack/Kyle/Ashley/Lily/Billy/Abby etc could all be working there.

That business has history with the show and far more relatable than some media company that we have no idea of what they do and seems to change direction and leadership every few months.

The newer writers have missed the point in Y&R's business storylines.  Bell's business storylines -- which he did extremely well, in my opinion -- were never about the "business" itself; his storylines were about the interactions of the characters within the business, and how greed in the workplace, a bad business decision, or a careless remark made to a co-worker could set off a chain of events that impacted not only the employees of the company but everyone else within their circle.  The newer writers seem to think we care about who's the CEO of this company or who's the CEO of that company.  That means nothing to us at all, if we're not seeing their workplace interactions.  

29 minutes ago, Broderick said:

(5)  Writing for the show is currently difficult, because of the SET restrictions.  You have to use certain sets.  They can't be moved; they can't be changed, because it causes budgetary problems.  Therefore, a number of things you'd like to SHOW HAPPENING, instead must be recapped in Crimson Lights.  

This has been a cross-network issue for many years. I remember Bob Woods at OLTL telling the oral history that near the end of its ABC run he found himself asking, 'why do we have so many scenes in the hospital lounge?' The answer was 'because [the hospital set] is up.'

Early years of soaps (50s, 60s) took place in the living rooms or kitchens of the main characters residences...with maybe one restaurant set, one hospital and police station set.

Difference was that the writing was probably better in those earlier years.

1 minute ago, Soaplovers said:

Early years of soaps (50s, 60s) took place in the living rooms or kitchens of the main characters residences...with maybe one restaurant set, one hospital and police station set.

Difference was that the writing was probably better in those earlier years.

She points that out.  She said that soaps are fundamentally person-to-person drama, and if you're devoted to it, you can make it work in a restaurant or a coffee house.  lol.  

36 minutes ago, Broderick said:

The newer writers have missed the point in Y&R's business storylines.  Bell's business storylines -- which he did extremely well, in my opinion -- were never about the "business" itself; his storylines were about the interactions of the characters within the business, and how greed in the workplace, a bad business decision, or a careless remark made to a co-worker could set off a chain of events that impacted not only the employees of the company but everyone else within their circle.  The newer writers seem to think we care about who's the CEO of this company or who's the CEO of that company.  That means nothing to us at all, if we're not seeing their workplace interactions.  

So very true.

That's why in the current budget climate, having a multitude of characters in the one workplace makes sense.

The personal and business interact. And to me Jabot is the best bet.The beauty industry is something a lot of viewers can relate to and are interested in. Although I always found it hard to swallow that a major company of this sort would be operating out of Wisconsin, nonetheless there were attempts made to discuss product strategy, promotional campaigns etc. We also saw the products.

Vague discussions of podcasts etc don't have the same impact.And there could be topical stories about the challenges facing the industry with online, monorities, influencers, 'green' products etc.

4 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

So very true.That's why in the current budget climate, having a multitude of characters in the one workplace makes sense.

 

Yes, and then when you tell a provocative storyline (such as the one Sussman mentioned -- an uncharacteristically belligerent Devon having an altercation with the police), it could ripple throughout the entire organization and beyond.   You'd have Lily, who works at Jabot, immediately taking up for Devon, while a character who's at odds with Lily over a project at Jabot -- say, Billy, for instance -- immediately takes up for the police.  A character who'd previously worked with Devon but who now works at Jabot might release, on social media, video footage of Devon yelling at the policemen.  Those were the types of stories that Bill Bell did -- not so much "who's the new CEO", but rather how all the characters respond to one another and to the events that are happening in their midst.  It becomes about the CHARACTERS, and not just about where they happen to work.   

Thanks @Chris B for the cliffs on the interview!

Overall, if CBS is not going to allow the show to join the rest of us in the twenty-first century then cancel it. It is painful seeing these shows drag on their pending demise when they could still be profitable if they simply reverted back to what soaps used to be--the innovators of the industry. 

It is sad that streaming platforms literally make millions on soaps. Meanwhile, soaps are bleeding out.