2 minutes ago, KLN said:

Agreed. It's mostly on John but you know how women are in these scenarios. Kristen should've turned heels soon as she found that letter. She was a villain in the end for sure, I loved her as that and ot that has it's perks for sure. But with Kristen's backstory going back to childhood and everything that came after, I think they could work her as something more dark grey, maybe jet black when she misses her meds. 😆😆

With a different creative interpretation I think Kristen has legs, just not as a fully stabilized character. She works best in rotation but she has broad appeal for sure. My sensibilities have always told me that.

I know it's a soap and it is what it is, but I was never clear why Kristen wanted to hold on to John so bad.  He was literally in love with another woman!!   Sure, John's tall and rich, but all these women on soaps are desperate to keep men that don't want them.  Idk, Kristen is a hot lady.  I don't know why she wanted a guy that was literally a giant red flag walking lol.

11 hours ago, KLN said:

Same with John/Hope in '99.

I still wanna know whose idea it was to pair those two up in the first place.  Like, did we not learn our lesson from Shane and Kayla?

Just now, Khan said:

I still wanna know whose idea it was to pair those two up in the first place.  Like, did we not learn our lesson from Shane and Kayla?

Don't bring up the dark years when John/Hope were pushed and pushed and pushed.  Sure they had some chemistry, but WHHHHHY?  

I kinda like Shane/Kayla.  Kim always seemed like ALOT to deal with lol. 

6 hours ago, carolineg said:

I know it's a soap and it is what it is, but I was never clear why Kristen wanted to hold on to John so bad.  He was literally in love with another woman!!   Sure, John's tall and rich, but all these women on soaps are desperate to keep men that don't want them.  Idk, Kristen is a hot lady.  I don't know why she wanted a guy that was literally a giant red flag walking lol.

That's where I think her childhood experience, fear of abandonment, etc. could be worked in if they wanted to explore her deeper.

When I was younger I projected my own trauma as to what created her desire for love and desperate fear of abandonment.

The elements have been there all along for her to be a tragic anti-heroine, IMO, even when JER wrote her as the daughter of Satan and Ron wrote/writes her as a masked crusader from a Batman comic.

6 hours ago, Khan said:

I still wanna know whose idea it was to pair those two up in the first place.  Like, did we not learn our lesson from Shane and Kayla?

You know it was JER.

He wanted to bang Hope only slightly less than Marlena so of course his perceived hero should get a hall pass to bang her too. Get out of jail free card for both, we'll just say they were out of their minds and pretend it's not rape.

A big, convoluted 'out' that thumbed it's nose at the two primary fanbases at the time. It was stupid of SSM and Langan to run with it.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

4 minutes ago, KLN said:

That's where I think her childhood experience, fear of abandonment, etc. could be worked in if they wanted to explore her deeper.

When I was younger I projected my own stuff as to what created her desire for love and desperate fear of abandonment.

The elements have been there all along for her to be a tragic anti-heroine all along, IMO, even when JER wrote her as the daughter of Satan and Ron wrote/writes her as a masked crusader from a Batman comic.

There is something deep and tragic about a women who wants a man so badly that she would do anything and he will always be in love with someone else.  Much like Sami, but her trauma was more on display and she moved past it sorta.

9 hours ago, KLN said:

Random question: I was too young for Ryan's Hope but I remember promos from the SOAPnet days... how does Delia Coleridge compare to Kristen?

She doesn't.  Delia was infinitely more layered as a character than Kristen.  She wanted so desperately to be a part of the Ryans, because her own family was so messed up (schizophrenic father, mother who made a living selling subway tokens, etc); and she manipulated the family, who wanted only to love her, and constantly painted herself as a victim (against Mary, against Jillian, against Faith, against anyone who threatened her shaky status within the family), because it was easier than growing up.

I don't know what the hell Kristen wants.  Regardless of who's playing her at the moment.

12 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Don't bring up the dark years when John/Hope were pushed and pushed and pushed.  Sure they had some chemistry, but WHHHHHY?  

I kinda like Shane/Kayla.  Kim always seemed like ALOT to deal with lol. 

Look, I was young and not watching back then but from the clips I've seen, I agree. Shane and Kayla had chemistry!

So did Shane and Kim. Don't come for me. 😄😄

2 minutes ago, KLN said:

Look, I was young and not watching back then but from the clips I've seen, I agree. Shane and Kayla had chemistry!

So did Shane and Kim. Don't come for me. 😄😄

I actually really like Kim.  

she's my 2nd favorite Brady after Roman

*I know unpopular*

But she was exhausting.  And went through so much story in a fairly short period of time.

Besides, I always thought it was shitty Shawn called Kim his best and brightest.  Kayla deserved to win even if Kim/Shane are together now.

I honestly didn't think Kayla and Shane were that bad.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

There is something deep and tragic about a women who wants a man so badly that she would do anything and he will always be in love with someone else.  Much like Sami, but her trauma was more on display and she moved past it sorta.

For me it was love in general.

I grew up in a broken home, sexually abused, separated from my mom at a young age, told she abandoned me and didn't love me, etc. Closeted gay kid in the 90's.

It could've been a lot worse but I didn't know the trauma I was in when I was in it.

I've more or less healed all that through experience, growing up, learning to trust, forgive and allow vulnerability but I poured myself into soaps to escape reality and I identified with the angry wound that was Kristen DiMera in my teens for sure.

She's a tragic mess of a character but I like her  personally and think she has story value.

 

2 hours ago, Khan said:

She doesn't.  Delia was infinitely more layered as a character than Kristen.  She wanted so desperately to be a part of the Ryans, because her own family was so messed up (schizophrenic father, mother who made a living selling subway tokens, etc); and she manipulated the family, who wanted only to love her, and constantly painted herself as a victim (against Mary, against Jillian, against Faith, against anyone who threatened her shaky status within the family), because it was easier than growing up.

I don't know what the hell Kristen wants.  Regardless of who's playing her at the moment.

Very interesting. Thank you!

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

I don't think Kristen Blake DiMera is a tragic anti-heroine.  She's what happens when you don't know how to write a "good" character in a way that's interesting.

20 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I actually really like Kim.  

she's my 2nd favorite Brady after Roman

*I know unpopular*

But she was exhausting.  And went through so much story in a fairly short period of time.

Besides, I always thought it was shitty Shawn called Kim his best and brightest.  Kayla deserved to win even if Kim/Shane are together now.

I honestly didn't think Kayla and Shane were that bad.

She seemed like a lot as a character. 😄😄

I love Patsy but she has a lot of... energy.

8 minutes ago, KLN said:

For me it was love in general.

I grew up in a broken home, sexually abused, separated from my mom, told she didn't love me, told she abandoned me, etc. Closeted gay kid. It could've been worse but I didn't know the trauma I was in when I was in it.

I've more or less healed all that through life experience, growing up, learning to trust, forgive and allow vulnerability but I identified with the angry wound that was Kristen DiMera in my teens for sure.

I am so sorry you had to go through that, but happy you seem to have come out the other side well.

It's always nice to talk about fictional characters and discuss silly points as an escape or stress reliever.  Days and GH to a lesser extent have always been a comfort to me.  No matter how much comes my way or how things change, Marlena will still be on cooing with John lol.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

I don't think Kristen Blake DiMera is a tragic anti-heroine.  She's what happens when you don't know how to write a "good" character in a way that's interesting.

That's a very good point.  Her being "good" was a complete flop.  I do think it's hard to put her up against another good character like Marlena.  There had to be some contrast between the two.

RE: Shane/Kayla -- Perhaps, if their respective spouses (Kimberly and Patch) were both dead, or presumed dead, audiences might have accepted the pairing.  But, the truth was, Kimberly was still very much alive, so it seemed like a slap in the face when you had Shane literally saying he had been with the "wrong" Brady sister all along.

Just now, KLN said:

She seemed like a lot as a character. 😄😄

I love Patsy but she has a lot of... energy.

She had something.  PP was definitely something different in a good way.  Too bad she had so many personal struggles because I definitely think she's more interesting than Kayla.  Sorry MBE fans!!

Just now, Khan said:

RE: Shane/Kayla -- Perhaps, if their respective spouses (Kimberly and Patch) were both dead, or presumed dead, audiences might have accepted the pairing.  But, the truth was, Kimberly was still very much alive, so it seemed like a slap in the face when you had Shane literally saying he had been with the "wrong" Brady sister all along.

Fair.  That was awful and Shayla seemed really put out by Kim being upset.  But again time and fan opinion have made them seem worse than they actually were.  

6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I do think it's hard to put her up against another good character like Marlena.  There had to be some contrast between the two.

Not necessarily.  Kristen and Marlena could have both been "good" people caught in a no-win situation over John.  Unfortunately, it's been AGES since DAYS was the type of soap to do that kind of sensitive, nuanced, character-driven drama.  And JER...?  Well, like @KLN says, he tended to see things as black-and-white.

5 minutes ago, carolineg said:

That was awful and Shayla seemed really put out by Kim being upset.

Plus, I don't think enough time had passed after Patch's "death" for viewers to accept Kayla moving on with anyone, let alone her ex-brother-in-law.  Or, maybe enough time had passed, and I'm just blurring it all together in my mind, I dunno.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by Khan