Looking back...Primetime Ratings from the 80's

[kalbir]

CBS messed up their Thursday lineup in Fall 1986. Magnum, P.I. moved to Wednesday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Dynasty (which was still a Top 10 show heading into Fall 1986). Simon & Simon moved up 1 hour to 8 pm where it was DOA against The Cosby Show and Family Ties (which were #1 and 2nd in 1985/86). Knots Landing moved up 1 hour to 9 pm where I think CBS expected it would kill off The Colbys but instead Knots Landing got weakened further by Cheers and Night Court. CBS saw the error of their ways and moved Knots Landing back to 10 pm but then NBC counter-programmed Thursday 10 pm by replacing aging Hill Street Blues w/ new drama L.A. Law and that move paid off for NBC. 

Here's how L.A. Law compared to Knots Landing in the years they were head-to-head.

1986/87: 21. L.A. Law (first season), 26. Knots Landing (down from 17th in 1985/86).

1987/88: 12. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30.

1988/89: 13. L.A. Law, 27. Knots Landing.

1989/90: 16. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30.

1990/91: 23. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30.

1991/92: 28. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30.

1992/93: Both were below the Top 30 and 1992/93 was Knots Landing final season.

L.A. Law and Knots Landing first faced off on December 4, 1986 and the L.A. Law episode was Jeanne Cooper's first appearance as Gladys Becker. I see what you did there NBC, you're not fooling me.

The Dukes of Hazzard and Dallas both appealed to male audiences and Dallas was CBS's highest rated scripted show so maybe that's why CBS left The Dukes of Hazzard where it was despite the ratings collapse in its final three seasons. 

Perhaps Lorimar insisted on keeping Dallas and Falcon Crest in a block. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by kalbir

[soapfan770]

Thanks as always @kalbir! I didn’t remember Knots airing at 9 either. I dusted off my old prime time encyclopedia directory off the shelf lol and I see it lasted just two months lol. 
 

I have in my notes Knots was #31 for 87-88 and was actually technically still at #29 and #30 for 89-90 and 90-91 seasons but so many had tied up those seasons sometimes It ultimately fell off some lists.

 

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Edited January 7, 2023 by soapfan770

[Paul Raven]

Knots was moved twice out of the 10pm slot and both times failed as a 9pm show. CBS moved it back to 10pm both times.

1st time was in 81/82 up against Barney Miller on ABC and Diff'rent Strokes on NBC.  It looked like good counter programming against an ageing sitcom (Barney) and a kid oriented sitcom (Strokes) and following a hit (Magnum).

But the 10 pm show Jessica Novak was up against 20/20 and Hill St Blues and flopped. CBS stuck with it all season but it was back at 10 the next year.

Then again in 86/87 with Kay O'Brien as the 10 pm show. CBS were quicker to move it back this time -mid season.

 

[kalbir]

You're welcome @soapfan770

@Paul Raven You'd think CBS would have learned their lesson in 1981/82 re Knots Landing at 9 pm but they didn't.

CBS did not have much success with launching new dramas in the second half of the 1980s. They kept the primetime soaps and action shows as long as they did because the new dramas launched from Fall 1985 to Fall 1989 which had multiple season runs (The Equalizer, The Twilight Zone, Houston Knights, Beauty and the Beast, Jake and the Fatman, Tour of Duty, Wiseguy, Paradise) didn't show any signs of growth. Magnum, P.I. was effectively done Spring 1986, Simon & Simon was effectively done Spring 1987, and the primetime soaps were creatively exhausted by Spring 1988. It wasn't until Northern Exposure premiered Summer 1990 that CBS had a new drama which would show growth during its run.

Edited January 7, 2023 by kalbir

[soapfan770]

The Laurence Tisch years for CBS really were an era of incompetence and dismal results for the network weren’t they? 

[j swift]

I've often wondered about the rationale of pairing Dukes of Hazard with Dallas/Falcon Crest and Fall Guy with Dynasty?  I don't think they were produced by the same company and it wasn't as if the 8pm show was the established hit.

I recall my family being avid Dallas viewers on Friday nights, but we never watched Dukes (as kids we were forced to slug through MacNeil/Lehrer on PBS before we got to the good stuff).  And, to this day I don't think I've ever watched an episode of Fall Guy or Matt Houston (which someone will remind me if it took its place, or ran before The Colby's) by choice.

Maybe it was a "one for the guys, one for the gals" situation, but programming an evening seemed like there was more audience research involved, and I wonder how they sold advertisers on the diversity of those fans.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by j swift

[kalbir]

Yeah they were. It also didn't help that CBS struggled with sitcoms for most of the 1980s, from when M*A*S*H ended and The Jeffersons, Alice, One Day at a Time fell out of the Top 10 in 1982/83 to Murphy Brown and Designing Women entering the Top 30 in 1989/90 (they became Top 10 shows in 1990/91). Newhart and Kate & Allie started good, but they couldn't maintain their momentum and they got overshadowed by the big NBC and ABC sitcoms of the mid-1980s.

It's so funny how the fortunes of CBS primetime and daytime changed in opposite directions over the course of the 1980s. CBS primetime was riding high at the beginning of the 1980s thanks to Who Shot JR mania but was an absolute mess by the end of the decade. CBS daytime was shaken up at the beginning of the 1980s by the huge rise of ABC but was #1 by the end of the decade with all four soaps hitting their stride plus the game show block.

Also Magnum, P.I., Simon & Simon, Knots Landing. CBS Thursday was killing it with that block until NBC premiered The Cosby Show and the rest is history.

Edited January 8, 2023 by kalbir

[Paul Raven]

Program compatility and audience flow seems to be an inexact science, although I'm sure the networks invested zillions of dollars in research.

The conventional wisdom at the time seems to be that light action/adventure leading into soap was the way to go, probably based on nothing more than it worked for Dukes/Dallas.

CBS tried again with Freebie and the Bean/Secrets of Midland Heights and NBC had BJ and the Bear/Flamingo Road.

I guess if the action shows had cute guys the woman would be interested and the soaps had plenty of pretty girls so the reverse was true. That kind of sexist stereotype holds true today.

There have been plenty of odd scheduling moves over the years. Remember CBS launched All in the Family following Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres and Hee Haw!

[soapfan770]

CBS was so uneven during the Tisch years. You had 2 or 3 sitcoms  that were successful but everything else failed. Y&R had better ratings some of this prime time flops, and CBS didn’t always treat their primetime hits right. Dan Rather floundered big time, yet 60 Minutes remained well respected and highly watched. 
 

Interestingly in the mid-late 90’s I remember the old TNN network aired Dukes and Dallas reruns in a block. I find it amusing that the Hulk was also on that Friday night line up 1979-81 lol. 

[kalbir]

Yup. You had the third place mess era (Fall 1987-Spring 1991), some signs of life (Fall 1991-Spring 1994), and another mess era starting Fall 1994. 1995 CBS sold to Westinghouse and goodbye Laurence Tisch, hello Les Moonves.

Yes, it's funny that CBS had a Friday night line up of The Incredible Hulk, The Dukes of Hazzard, Dallas. Two shows for the kids, one show for the parents when the kids have gone to bed LOL.

[Paul Raven]

Looking at CBS in the 80's one of their problems was the reliance on 70's sitcoms and the failure to come up with new sitcom hits. In the early mid 70's there was a slew of long running sitcoms introduced and very few misses.

AITF, Maude, MTM, Mash, Bob Newhart, Jeffersons, Good Times, Rhoda, One Day at a Time, Alice.

The problems started when MTM, Bob Newhart and Rhoda departed. Saturday night fell apart as Tony Randall and We've Got Each Other failed to take off. Betty White was  a flop.

But going into the 80's CBS still had a strong sitcom lineup But after 76 the only bright spots were WKRP and House Calls, but neither were super hits.

So when the 70's shows finally departed in the mid 80's  the cupboard was pretty much bare.

[DramatistDreamer]

The only successful sitcom that aired on CBS in the early to mid 80s that I can think of, was Kate & Allie.
 

When I think of sitcoms and the 1980s, I am more likely to think of peak Diff’rent Strokes, peak Facts Of Life, and the start of NBC’s ‘Must See TV” Thursday night lineup, and Who’s The Boss?, Webster, Mr. Belvedere and the early beginnings of ABC’s TGIF lineup. Even Fox was starting to compete by the end of the decade and with syndicated television shows like Small Wonder (which got heavily made fun of by other student writers in my grad school sitcom class but even they had to admit to having watched the series as little kids-we all had to) and What’s Happening Now that aired on my local Fox broadcast network, Fox was starting to embed in the weekend time slots as early as 1985.

CBS was fortunate to get any traction from their sitcoms that were 70s holdovers exiting the television landscape in the 80s. Other than Kate and Allie, the only other memorable sitcom in that era was Charlie & Co., which CBS ultimately badly flopped by changing its time slot just as it was starting to cultivate an audience and throwing the nascent sitcom into the lions den of direct competition with 80s powerhouse The Cosby Show, which just seems cruel, in retrospect.

I agree with @Paul Ravenabout CBS’ sitcom programming cupboard almost being completely bare by the mid 80s and it was pretty much their own poor choices that led them there.

Edited January 8, 2023 by DramatistDreamer
WTF spellcheck?!

[Paul Raven]

Another problem for CBS that plagued them for years was trying to find successful 8pm shows Tues, Wed and Sat.

They tried and tried again with youth oriented shows that repeatedly fizzled. Younger viewers and CBS were poles apart.

Remember these shows? TV 101, Dolphin Cove, Houston Knights, High Mountain Rangers, The Wizard, Downtown, Outlaws, Stir Crazy, Hometown, Otherworld, Whiz Kids, Wizards and Warriors... just a few of the shows tried in those slots.

[kalbir]

Also Newhart, even though it was up and down ratings-wise during its run.

September 1985, Charlie & Co. was placed Wednesday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Dynasty, the previous season's #1 show. January 1986 moved to Tuesday 8:30 pm head-to-head w/ Growing Pains, and then pulled from the schedule. Returned April 1986 Friday 8 pm head-to-head w/ Webster and ended May 1986. Charlie & Co. had a great cast (Gladys Knight, Flip Wilson, Kristoff St. John, Jaleel White) but somehow I feel CBS didn't have alot of faith in it.

Earlier in the thread you brought up ABC Tuesdays in the first half of the 1980s where they also relied on 1970s sitcoms and the only new sitcom to have any success was Too Close for Comfort. Fortunately for ABC, they rebounded with sitcoms when Who's the Boss took off in 1985/86, then successful new comedies Growing Pains and The Wonder Years, and the breakout success of Roseanne in 1988/89.

As for NBC, we all know that it started the 1980s as a mess in primetime. NBC made a comeback in primetime with the breakout success of The Cosby Show in 1984/85, which also pulled up Family Ties, Cheers, Night Court. Then there was the breakout success of The Golden Girls in 1985/86, and NBC would have the sitcom game on lock for the rest of the decade.

Edited January 9, 2023 by kalbir

[DRW50]

John Leonard, TV critic, talks about the television season of 88-89 (up to late December, anyway), spitting venom as a whole, but praising Designing Women, Murphy Brown, and especially Heartbeat. He praises Roseanne Barr but dismisses the show itself as looking down on poor people. It's about 30 minutes in.

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Edited January 9, 2023 by DRW50