58 minutes ago, Khan said:

I remember some of Travilla's wardrobe choices for the KL ladies.  Oof.

I thought the Knots ladies wore the Travilla fashions better, although it was more jarring considering what they were wearing before. I also think they did a better job transitioning out of it than Dallas did. Knots was always good at adapting, Dallas was more drastic with their changes and the drab western wear was terrible.

8 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Both Donna and Jenna were unfortunately stuck with cheap Ray Kreebs. They were dressed in KMart clothing. Once Donna left Ray she became really regal. Even Ray mentioned to her how high and mighty she thought she was with her expensive clothing.

Jenna was dressed so dreadfully when she got stuck with Ray.

Y'know...in retrospect, making Ray the illegitimate son of Jock Ewing was probably not the wisest decision that the show could have made.  It seemed like, once Ray was tied biologically to the Ewings, he became less interesting.

I realize why they did it -- Larry Hagman didn't want him off the show -- but I feel like there were other, better ways to keep Ray on the show AND keep him the lascivious scoundrel that he was at the start.

8 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Both Donna and Jenna were unfortunately stuck with cheap Ray Kreebs. They were dressed in KMart clothing. Once Donna left Ray she became really regal. Even Ray mentioned to her how high and mighty she thought she was with her expensive clothing.

Ray became so obnoxious in his later years on the show, what with his insecurity about Donna and his obsession with his teenage stepdaugher’s romantic life. During his middle years on the show, after he adjusted to being Jock’s son, he also adjusted to Donna’s career success and was no longer worried about competing with the other Ewing brothers. He became pretty mellow and he and Donna were a nice contrast to all the drama of JR/Sue Ellen and Bobby/Pam. 

I guess the writers felt that was dull, because then they undid it all.

I always thought once Bobby left that Gary and Val should've moved over to Dallas. They hinted at it in the writing. Miss Ellie could've inserted Gary into Ewing Oil. JR would've been furious and you know he hated Val just as much as Pam. 

Pam and Mark could've been the new boring Ray and Donna. They should've kept Donna regal and Ray being jealous of her success.

26 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

Ray became so obnoxious in his later years on the show, what with his insecurity about Donna and his obsession with his teenage stepdaugher’s romantic life. During his middle years on the show, after he adjusted to being Jock’s son, he also adjusted to Donna’s career success and was no longer worried about competing with the other Ewing brothers. He became pretty mellow and he and Donna were a nice contrast to all the drama of JR/Sue Ellen and Bobby/Pam. 

I guess the writers felt that was dull, because then they undid it all.

The dream season messed everything up and the 1986 season was basically the 1985 had Bobby not left. It was a repeat season from 1985 with Bobby back. Even I as a big fan felt cheated and the 1986 season was so damn awkward till the last few episodes.

I thought the decision to make Ray a Ewing was a poor one. That was a card they could have held in their back pocket to introduce a new family member/character when they needed it. Not to blow on an existing character in the early seasons of the show, when they hadn’t yet begun to run out of story.

10 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

I thought the decision to make Ray a Ewing was a poor one. That was a card they could have held in their back pocket to introduce a new family member/character when they needed it. Not to blow on an existing character in the early seasons of the show, when they hadn’t yet begun to run out of story.

Agree.  Plus, making Ray a Ewing meant he and Lucy had committed incest, which is just...yecch.

Top 10 shows of all time. Do you agree?

https://screenrant.com/dallas-best-episodes-imdb-score/

I think the problem with that ranking is that there are so many episodes and people certainly aren’t ranking every single one and not against each other. 

So, now that I’ve picked on the methodology, I’ll comment:

I’d argue that “Swan Song” is the best episode. It’s such a great wrap up to Patrick Duffy’s first stint on the show. The resolution to the the show’s Pam/Bobby/Jenna triangle is deliriously soapy: Pam is willing to sacrifice her happiness so that Jenna can be with Bobby; Jenna is willing to sacrifice her happiness so that Bobby can be with Pam; and Bobby sacrifices his life for Pam. Bobby and Pam’s reconciliation after two seasons apart is the most romantic and heartfelt scene of the series. Add to that Bobby’s weepy deathbed scene, and you have the best episode of the series.

Edited February 8, 20223 yr by Chris 2

53 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

I’d argue that “Swan Song” is the best episode. It’s such a great wrap up to Patrick Duffy’s first stint on the show. The resolution to the the show’s Pam/Bobby/Jenna triangle is deliriously soapy: Pam is willing to sacrifice her happiness so that Jenna can be with Bobby; Jenna is willing to sacrifice her happiness so that Bobby can be with Pam; and Bobby sacrifices his life for Pam. Bobby and Pam’s reconciliation after two seasons apart is the most romantic and heartfelt scene of the series. Add to that Bobby’s weepy deathbed scene, and you have the best episode of the series.

Another reason why undoing it all later with the "dream reveal" was the worst move Leonard Katzman could have made.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

Another reason why undoing it all later with the "dream reveal" was the worst move Leonard Katzman could have made.

That and not going properly into Pam vs JR in the dream season. It's pretty much what the majority of the viewers wanted/expected. Yet, it was a bust because they just didn't want to write Pam as a strong female character and brought in the slightly bizarre Angelica Nero.

Well said. The show had already begun to get repetitive during Duffy’s last season before his departure, and the ratings were beginning to soften in the latter part of that season. Exploring what happened to Pam after Bobby’s death should have driven plot for years. Pam should have been left in residence at Southfork as Bobby’s widow. She and JR could have battled in the office during the day and at Southfork at night. And it would have been fun to see the two of them reluctantly team up against outside threats.

But as you said, they were afraid of Pam as the main protagonist. So they didn’t really explore her going head to head with JR, and they had her jump back into bed with Mark Graison a couple of days after Bobby died. This was another missed opportunity - to eventually introduce a new, better character to be her love interest.

They really blew it, so Katzman decided to go back to the tried and true when he returned to the show, even though that setup was running out of gas even before Duffy’s departure. Ah, what could have been.

1 hour ago, te. said:

 and brought in the slightly bizarre Angelica Nero.

Who Larry Hagman hated working with and said she was an awful actress.

37 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

Well said. The show had already begun to get repetitive during Duffy’s last season before his departure, and the ratings were beginning to soften in the latter part of that season. Exploring what happened to Pam after Bobby’s death should have driven plot for years. Pam should have been left in residence at Southfork as Bobby’s widow. She and JR could have battled in the office during the day and at Southfork at night. And it would have been fun to see the two of them reluctantly team up against outside threats.

But as you said, they were afraid of Pam as the main protagonist. So they didn’t really explore her going head to head with JR, and they had her jump back into bed with Mark Graison a couple of days after Bobby died. This was another missed opportunity - to eventually introduce a new, better character to be her love interest.

They really blew it, so Katzman decided to go back to the tried and true when he returned to the show, even though that setup was running out of gas even before Duffy’s departure. Ah, what could have been.

This is why I asked Paul Raven for the ratings. Dallas lost viewers in the vey first episode of the new season. They dropped from a  28 HH number to a 23 HH. To be fair Dallas didn't have a cliffhanger like say Dynasty because we knew Bobby was dead.

The ratings did start to increase though after episode one as Pam dealt with Bobby's death and Sue Ellen going off the deep end with her drinking. But the numbers fell back to even below the season premiere after the whole Pam jungle mess and the Angelica Nero garbage. Dallas was still ranking in the top 5 early on in the dream season but once the focus went away from Pam vs JR and Sue Ellen downfall the show fell out of the top 10.

I pulled out the Barbara Curran book to look at the rankings (she gives those consistently more than ratings). The ratings/rankings actually fell off earlier in the dream season than Pam’s jungle adventure. By the seventh episode of the season in November, it had dropped out of the Nielsen top 10 for the first time since the second season. It hovered around number 10 (sometimes ranking a bit higher, sometimes a bit lower). When the emerald storyline started in January, it fell a bit more (ranking 11-13), and by April, it was regularly ranking 15th. I understand why they panicked and brought Duffy back, but I wish they had thought it through more. But they did need a big event to get the eyeballs back on the show again.

11 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

I understand why they panicked and brought Duffy back, but I wish they had thought it through more. But they did need a big event to get the eyeballs back on the show again.

Unfortunately, whenever a show makes a move out of desperation, it rarely, if ever, works.  So what happens?  They end up making another, even more drastic move in order to course-correct from the first, drastic move; and on and on it goes until they've chased away their entire audience for good.  Just look at what happened with DYNASTY and FALCON CREST for examples.

Edited February 8, 20223 yr by Khan

I don't think they needed a huge event as such - I think they needed to go where the viewers wanted them to go, which was properly do Pam versus JR and promo the [!@#$%^&*] out of their long-awaited feud and showdowns. It's like the re-tooling of Dynasty mid-season 6 - it was clunky as hell, but gave viewers what they wanted (Alexis, Blake and Krystle in a storyline together).

I'm not sure people missed Bobby as much as the producers thought.