I can still see Lucious looking out for Jamal too, without Jamal even knowing it.

Jamal needs to get inside the company order to take over it. Maybe to sit at some of the board meeting. Or ask Anika cam he write some music for some of her artist.

The ending stuff was so unexpected and great. Lucious can stop with his "I want to protect you" bullsh!t. I don't doubt that he loves Jamal but this is, and always has been, about Lucious: How it reflects on him that he has a gay son, what it says about him, what could be said about him and his masculinity, etc. It's wonderful drama. Aaaaand, “I’m going after his empire… and I’m gonna take it.” YAS, honey! YAAAAAAS.

I think that is about 85% of Lucious' problem with Jamal. It's about how it reflects on him to have a gay son. However, I do believe him when he says it's about how the world with treat Jamal too. He grew up on the streets with violence and drugs. Something that his kids no longer have to endure. He needs to make the transition in his head.

Chit, SWERVE. Your dislike of Jamal over the grounds that he is a freeloader is nonsensical considering Hakeem is the same and you don't have an issue with that at all apparently. And where is that trash can when you need one? Howard is fantastic, and you can feel for his point of view, but COME ON.

It shocks me how easily that seems to escape people. It's THE WHOLE POINT. He's a filthy rich kid who will not easily abandon the luxuries. As of last week, he "sold his obedience." Now he realized what a mistake that was and is changing & trying something new. That's progress, maturity and a GREAT character arc. How anyone doesn't feel for that (and, notice, all this has nothing to do with his gayness) is beyond me.

I wouldn't compare Jamal and Hakeem. For one, Hakeem is barely out of high school. I consider him a kid. Jamal is a fully grown man. There is a difference IMO.

However, I don't care. I agree that Jamal should be torn and should struggle with the thought of struggling. It's not like he isn't old enough to know what it is like to live without money. No one wants to go back to that.

Edited January 23, 201510 yr by ajsp35801

I can just see Carlivati's trifling mind furiously searching for a way to squeeze in an Empire reference even though it's on another network.

I do wonder what it's like for the people who have been killing daytime soaps because of all the reasons we know so well (lack of diversity, shame about the genre, outdated ideas about human sexuality, etc...) to see an "out and proud" soap become a breakout success by embracing all those things.

I know how I feel. VINDICATED! They should feel ashamed. But I doubt they do. They will say that the primetime audience is different than they daytime audience. There is some truth to that. But it isn't for that young demo that they want to capture so terribly.

I see your point but I'm just stating in terrms of storyline and potential routes that would be an interesting one to explore. Lucius has been shown to be coldhearted and ruthless. I think it would be interesting and within character for him to find a way to split them up. Or hell Andre could do it.

Andre probably could do it. He might seduce Michael himself. He's such as !@#$%^&*], I love him though.

I'll admit, there have been a few scenes where Cookie reminded me of VR. The near fight with Kitty in the elevator where she adjusted her hat for example. I would love to see some soap stars pop up down the line. I think it could happen.

I actually had a conversation with my friends where I said that there is only a handful of women that could have played the role of Cookie and not come off as a caricature or grating and delivered her lines naturally. Taraji, Vivica Fox, AND Victoria Rowell. That's it that I really think could do it.

I'd love to see Victoria Rowell as Lucious' mother. I'd make her a pretentious bitch with a heart of gold. Andre would be her favorite.

I like the way that TH is portraying Lucious's feelings for Jamal. I definitely think that Lucious has love and affection for Jamal. Granted it's mixed with some disapproval but it's definitely not hate. I am looking forward to see what happens between Lucious and Jamal, especially now that Jamal is going to try and make it on his own.

I could see Jamal trying to avoid Lucious, for a while, (unless he wants to confront him about something) and if that happens, I think it will be interesting to watch. I think that if Jamal doesn't really want anything to do with Lucious, that is going to really bother Lucious. I could see him keeping tabs on Jamal, and still finding reasons to get in Jamal's face and try and talk with him.

Jamal/Lucious is one of my favorite relationships dynamics on this show along with Cookie/Lucious.

Lucious will be very hurt if Jamal cuts him off. I can hear the rant, "I have loved him and provided for him despite him sleeping with men. And this is how he treats me!". Oh, the outrage.

I also think that Jamal will probably start living in an unsavory place. I don't doubt Lucious to hire a bodygaurd to follow and protect him. Or Cookie will. No way will they leave him to roam the streets alone.

It would be sweet justice if Victoria did land a role on Empire. I'm sure her ex-Y&R costars would gag.

That thug, Vivica, could not do Cookie justice! Cookie is in the league of Alexis Carrington because Taraji has the chops to get her there. Vivica and her head rolling hoodrat ass could not do it. Taraji is damn near perfect casting. I can't imagine anyone playing this role but her!

VR as Lucious mother? Huh?

I can still see Lucious looking out for Jamal too, without Jamal even knowing it.

Jamal needs to get inside the company order to take over it. Maybe to sit at some of the board meeting. Or ask Anika cam he write some music for some of her artist.

I just wrote this before I read your reply. I definitely think he will hire a bodyguard for him.

It would be sweet justice if Victoria did land a role on Empire. I'm sure her ex-Y&R costars would gag.

Seethe, bitches!

Now you know Lee Daniels must know who Victoria Rowell is. He must be aware of her Queenacity (totes made that word up)!

That thug, Vivica, could not do Cookie justice! Cookie is in the league of Alexis Carrington because Taraji has the chops to get her there. Vivica and her head rolling hoodrat ass could not do it. Taraji is damn near perfect casting. I can't imagine anyone playing this role but her!

VR as Lucious mother? Huh?

Care to explain the huh? LOL

I think that is about 85% of Lucious' problem with Jamal. It's about how it reflects on him to have a gay son. However, I do believe him when he says it's about how the world with treat Jamal too. He grew up on the streets with violence and drugs. Something that his kids no longer have to endure. He needs to make the transition in his head.

IA. EMPIRE's characters are too multi-dimensional to not have multiple reasons for what they do, which is why they also can't be judged in simple terms.

I wouldn't compare Jamal and Hakeem. For one, Hakeem is barely out of high school. I consider him a kid. Jamal is a fully grown man. There is a difference IMO.

However, I don't care. I agree that Jamal should be torn and should struggle with the thought of struggling. It's not like he isn't old enough to know what it is like to live without money. No one wants to go back to that.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how old Jamal is. Has it been established? Can we say with certainly that he's a full grown man? Maybe that's the case.

Regardless, that's exactly it. No one would easily choose a hard, difficult life, especially if they have grown up privileged.

Andre probably could do it. He might seduce Michael himself. He's such as !@#$%^&*], I love him though.

Cue the Andre/Rhonda/Michael threesome!

Care to explain the huh? LOL

Victoria Rowell is 15-20 years too young to play Howard's mother! They look more like siblings age wise or could easily play same-age lovers.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how old Jamal is. Has it been established? Can we say with certainly that he's a full grown man? Maybe that's the case.

Regardless, that's exactly it. No one would easily choose a hard, difficult life, especially if they have grown up privileged.

I think Jamal is about 22 or 23. He was about 4 or 5 when Hakeem was a toddler.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how old Jamal is. Has it been established? Can we say with certainly that he's a full grown man? Maybe that's the case.

Regardless, that's exactly it. No one would easily choose a hard, difficult life, especially if they have grown up privileged.

He is at least 5/6 years older than Hakeem if we go by that flash back of him being put in the garbage can. Maybe 23/24. Still very young but old enough to have a job at Empire if nothing else. If he doesn't want to cut a record, then he needs an office position. Earn his keep!

But again. I don't care about that. I don't mind spoiled grown up kids with no ambition. Why work when you don't have too. If I could lay around the house and watch soaps all day, I would do that.