I agree it was the gay slurs. But my points was that she had no problem with Cookie referring to herself as a B.

I didn't know that this was going to be one of Cookie's story arcs. I should have known since Luscious made a comments about how she behaves. Hmmm. I see why they would go this route but I am kinda sad too because changing her kinda implies that there is something wrong with her. I think she's flawless as is! I wonder if code switching will come into play here.

And I also think that she might be a little threatened. Lee's show is good and has brought in great ratings. And he has something that she doesn't and I don't know whether she is uninterested in having it or he network won't allow it....A majority black cast.

I don't think she'll lose her spunk though. I think she'll just be more cautious and slicker. I don't see Cookie as being one who'll lose her spunk. Just selective when she chooses her battles. Taraji somewhat implied that Cookie becoming refined is her way to appeal to Lucious and stick to Anika.

But I am wondering if this change will backfire and result in her losing Lucious because he seems to prefer her the way she is.

Oh, I wasn't arguing that anyone thought it was sexy. I was just pointing out that it was intentionally not sexy.

Gotcha!

MoTheGreat...the battle is about who will lead the company. I suppose that the person who has the biggest star will take the reins.

Agreed. This is about power & position.

Hakeem and Jamal aren't competitors yet but Hakeem has already exhibited jealousy for Jamal and I think their parents' games will put them on opposite sides.

She seemed shocked [via Twitter] by the dialogue and content of the show in the pilot but when fans came for her ass on Twitter, she cowered. But her ego was quickly stroked when the creators, Lee [Daniels] and Danny [strong], sent over a box to Shonda with a bunch of treats and a message saying that "over at Empire, we bow to the Queen of TV." She quickly tweeted the box and expressed love for the show.

Ugh. That's lame.

Furthermore, Lee is already appealing to people because he acknowledges his show is a soap.

I so so so so so love that he does that. I'm so happy to finally see a soap out there whose creators aren't afraid to say what it is or pretend it's "high-stakes drama" or some bullsh!t.

I've never heard of it but what did they say if you don't mind sharing? I'm very fascinated by the character of Andre. He's the one to watch because he's so silent. You never know what he's thinking or plotting and I find that it gives him a certain edge. Which I love.

The girl said she watch the show twice. Andre stare at Lucious like your're not going to do nothing. Then once things got messy. He goes in the corner, like he's a scare child. Or he's literally trying to restrain himself from actually from doing something.

She mention that he seems detach maybe because his bipolar. The first child will kill for his mother. He condition himself because where he at, to not react off basic instinct.

Edited January 16, 201510 yr by MoTheGreat

This trick....that's what happens when you feed the beast....

Exactly. Shonda's ego will be her undoing if she doesn't get it in check. Every cast member of her shows turns into a cult member praising her to no end and frankly it's creepy. The last thing she needs is everybody else doing it too. She's done a LOT for the cause of diversity in entertainment and she deserve credit for it but when you start believing your own hype, that's not good.

I've seen some talk about it but not much here: how does everyone feel about the use of gay slurs on this show? I don't mind them so much because I feel like the show is reclaiming them in a way and also because, let's face it, a lot of people talk like that but I'm not a member of that particular minority so I'm curious how it plays "ingroup" for lack of a better description.

Andre is being horrifically ignored by both parents, and Cookie is the worst when it comes to parenting. She is worse than Luc. Luc is about business. Cookie is about Jamal and using him against Luc. Meanwhile, to make things happen, Andre has gone off his meds [because he probably feels stifled by them] so that he can win this contest and run that company.

My heart goes out to him.

Agreed. This is about power & position.

Hakeem and Jamal aren't competitors yet but Hakeem has already exhibited jealousy for Jamal and I think their parents' games will put them on opposite sides.

I don't see Hakeem being jealous of Jamal. He wouldn't ask Jamal for help. I see Hakeem as Lucious & Jamal as Cookie in that they have an understanding of each other.

I so so so so so love that he does that. I'm so happy to finally see a soap out there whose creators aren't afraid to say what it is or pretend it's "high-stakes drama" or some bullsh!t.

Me too. But there are some creators that do acknowledge that their show is a soap. They are just fearful to announce it because they fear people will be repulsed and turned away. I'm glad that Lee is like, "F*ck it. This is a soap."

But I don't see why people are scared to say shows are soaps b/c 95% of TV shows are soaps.

Walking Dead -- Post Apocalyptic Zombie soap

Star Trek -- Space Opera

Grey's Anatomy -- Practically a modern day version of GH & The Doctors from their inception till about the mid 70s

How to Get Away With Murder -- Basically a knockoff of Edge of Night

Scandal -- Basically a modern day version of Capitol

Everyone watches soaps whether they know it or not.

I've seen some talk about it but not much here: how does everyone feel about the use of gay slurs on this show? I don't mind them so much because I feel like the show is reclaiming them in a way and also because, let's face it, a lot of people talk like that but I'm not a member of that particular minority so I'm curious how it plays "ingroup" for lack of a better description.

Hearing Cookie say that was a jolt and I was honestly kinda stunned it was allowed on network TV. But I did get the sense that the TV show acknowledged that it was wrong for her to say it but also understood that someone like Cookie would do just that. In general, there is a lot of homophobia displayed by the characters, but it makes sense for who they are and that's how they would express themselves. Although, while I see your argument about reclaiming them, I don't know if it's the show's place to reclaim them....

Andre is being horrifically ignored by both parents, and Cookie is the worst when it comes to parenting. She is worse than Luc. Luc is about business. Cookie is about Jamal and using him against Luc. Meanwhile, to make things happen, Andre has gone off his meds [because he probably feels stifled by them] so that he can win this contest and run that company.

My heart goes out to him.

Yes, and I'm sure it hasn't escaped him that his parents have no time for him. The only time Lucious gave him any attention was to tell him that he'd have the company if he saw Empire's plan to become public through. He's really fascinating because there is something dangerous about him -- like how far does he go when he's off his meds? I certainly want the answers!

I don't see Hakeem being jealous of Jamal. He wouldn't ask Jamal for help. I see Hakeem as Lucious & Jamal as Cookie in that they have an understanding of each other.

I agree! I don't think Hakeem is continuously jealous of Jamal -- he's too self-obsessed and self-assured for that.

But there was a nasty moment at the end of episode 1, that look that Hakeem gave Jamal, that sort of shows there's much more to be played between them potentially.

Andre is being horrifically ignored by both parents, and Cookie is the worst when it comes to parenting. She is worse than Luc. Luc is about business. Cookie is about Jamal and using him against Luc. Meanwhile, to make things happen, Andre has gone off his meds [because he probably feels stifled by them] so that he can win this contest and run that company.

My heart goes out to him.

Cookie was the most close to Jamal. he's the one who came to see her in jail. He's the one who kept her up on the news in the family. Andre went to a Ivy league school to forget about his coke jailbird selling mother.

Hearing Cookie say that was a jolt and I was honestly kinda stunned it was allowed on network TV. But I did get the sense that the TV show acknowledged that it was wrong for her to say it but also understood that someone like Cookie would do just that. In general, there is a lot of homophobia displayed by the characters, but it makes sense for who they are and that's how they would express themselves. Although, while I see your argument about reclaiming them, I don't know if it's the show's place to reclaim them....

Yeah, I don't know if she's reclaiming them but somebody made that argument on another site and I've tried to look at it that way. It's interesting to see the discussion about it because I grew up with George Jefferson and Fred Sanford throwing the n-word around on television.

I don't think she'll lose her spunk though. I think she'll just be more cautious and slicker. I don't see Cookie as being one who'll lose her spunk. Just selective when she chooses her battles. Taraji somewhat implied that Cookie becoming refined is her way to appeal to Lucious and stick to Anika.

But I am wondering if this change will backfire and result in her losing Lucious because he seems to prefer her the way she is.

Yes, I figured this was going to be about appealing to Luscious. He seems to feel he needs to put forward a certain public persona and needs a woman by his side that carries herself the same way and understands the need for it. I can't say that it is not the wisest choice as a businessman. However, it's not about who you really are, moreso, it is about the face that you show the world. When Cookie starts using some of her smarts to figure out how to cultivate the right perception in the media whether she has changed or not, Luscious will see her as an asset. I don't think it will backfire at all.

Me too. But there are some creators that do acknowledge that their show is a soap. They are just fearful to announce it because they fear people will be repulsed and turned away. I'm glad that Lee is like, "F*ck it. This is a soap."

But I don't see why people are scared to say shows are soaps b/c 95% of TV shows are soaps.

Walking Dead -- Post Apocalyptic Zombie soap

Star Trek -- Space Opera

Grey's Anatomy -- Practically a modern day version of GH & The Doctors from their inception till about the mid 70s

How to Get Away With Murder -- Basically a knockoff of Edge of Night

Scandal -- Basically a modern day version of Capitol

Everyone watches soaps whether they know it or not.

Yes!

That's what I've always said, too. Most of the shows out there are soaps or, at the very least, heavily employ the soap format (and if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...). I laugh when people tell me "I don't watch soaps" and I'm like, Really? You watch Scandal and Pretty Little Liars!

The girl said she watch the show twice. Andre stare at Lucious like your're not going to do nothing. Then once things got messy. He goes in the corner, like he's a scare child. Or he's literally trying to restrain himself from actually from doing something.

She mention that he seems detach maybe because his bipolar. The first child will kill for his mother. He condition himself because where he at, to not react off basic instinct.

Ah...I noticed that death stare too along with how he was gripping the railing. At the time I chalked it up to his mania. But I wouldn't be surprised if he goes off the rails and Cookie shows him the same compassion that she has always shown Jamal, thereby, strengthening the bond he has for his mother. And yeah, he might just kill someone before the show ends.

Cookie was the most close to Jamal. he's the one who came to see her in jail. He's the one who kept her up on the news in the family. Andre went to a Ivy league school to forget about his coke jailbird selling mother.

Jamal came to see her, fine. However, Andre has a mental illness that Cookie is more than aware of. Right now, she doesn't need him for anything, so she is ignoring him. If any one of these guys need her right now, Andre is that person. He's doing too much to win that company, and its clearly not good for him.

Besides CookieLu being at odds, I'm really intrigued by what will happen with Andre. This will get really bad, and I can't wait.