Doctor Who

[katie_9918]

What I took from that is that the circumstances in End of Time and in Day of the Doctor were two different meetings. It seems like in End of Time, the council convening was more of a legislative branch thing, while the people the Doctor were in contact with in Day of the Doctor were more of the military branch, because they were getting up-to-the-minute reports on the state of the Dalek attack on Gallifrey.

One could assume that Tennant's Doctor then neutralized the more militant, insane group led by Rassilon (or whoever he actually was) in End of Time, if we can also assume that Day of the Doctor falls not too long before The End of Time. In a way, seeing his future version (therefore making the Eleventh Doctor a fixed point in time, from the Tenth's POV) may have contributed to the brief lapse into the maniacal "Time Lord Victorious" we saw in Waters of Mars.

There's a lot of loose ends (not in a bad way) that can be played with. I choose to play with them in a way that gives us fans some hope that Gallifrey and the Time Lords have been redeemed from the turn they took in The End of Time, along with a bit of very slow, very careful backpedaling (in that not ALL the Time Lords were represented by Rassilon and his cronies in End of Time).

Well, we do have a possible arc for season eight (and possibly beyond): The Twelfth Doctor's search for Gallifrey.

I'm very happy for Tom Baker that he got a second chance to possibly? reprise his own Doctor. Everyone's got their own favorites, "their" Doctors (my first was McGann, and "my" Doctor is Matt Smith), but Baker was immensely popular and I'll bet there were a LOT of people who loved seeing him. I did see somewhere that he owned up to being involved and I'll admit to sitting up and crossing my fingers for Tom Baker when Clara mentioned the "old" curator who wanted a word with him, but it was still a huge surprise for me.

I have seen elsewhere that a few Tennant fangirls have taken the conversation between the Eleventh Doctor and the Fourth Doctor (if he was the Fourth, or some future version who revisited the old face, or just a coincidence?? LOL) as hope that Tennant will come back one day. *headdesk*

[Vee]

Some have said they wish Lis Sladen could've played the Moment.

I think Billie Piper was integral and needed - she's this generation's most iconic companion and an extremely influential part of selling the show in the new millennium, and I thought she did a fantastic job playing something that was often utterly alien to Rose. She's a wonderful actress. That said, I do find myself wondering "what if" - if Billie and Lis could've shared the part, with the Moment switching between the form of Rose and Sarah Jane, scene to scene.

[EricMontreal22]

This is amazing you mentioned this so recently.

My mom's favorite aunt, Joyce Marshall was a somewhat known Canadian novelist who was best friends with Judith Merril, and my mom was just mentioning how her aunt never understood Merril's deep love for sci fi and how Merril even used to do the TVOntario intros for the series. I never thought to look for them. (TVOntario is part of the provincial "educational" networks we have across Canada--or had, some are being privatized and has no connection to PBS but it is essentially the same concept, including relying on UK imports for many of their more watched shows.)

[~bl~]

For me part of it is I just wish Elisabeth Sladen would still be alive. Even with what little I've seen of her, I think she's so great and Sarah Jane would have to have been in it somehow.

Anyway, katie, I'm laughing over the idea of Tennant fangirls having that reaction. Once RTD created the metacrisis doctor, it gave anyone writing and/or running the program the option to bring Tennant back as that character who does age. If they had listened to the interview that Matt Smith and Tennant did with Graham Norton they would know that he would be willing to come back (when asked by Graham about the 50th he said partial quote "old whore...who will turn up for anything.") So seriously if asked and available he would come back again...were they too focused on the braid to listen to him?

[Vee]

Bleeding Cool insists that the classic William Hartnell stories, Marco Polo and The Massacre (of St. Bartholomew's Eve) - both amazing stories which I've only seen the fan reconstructions of - have been found and are currently in the process of being restored. They also allege that the Patrick Troughton stories, Power of the Daleks and The Macra Terror, may be next. Both classics, both have recons out there. The Massacre, coming on the heels of the 12-part epic The Daleks' Master Plan, is also the story which featured the immortal speech William Hartnell was shown delivering in An Adventure in Space and Time - "they're all gone now...perhaps I should go home, to my home planet...but I can't!"

I've seen all the reconstructions, but they can't compare. And the thought of seeing these actual, filmed stories, or The Web of Fear or The Enemy of the World before them, coming into the light of day is amazing.

They're also reporting that the title of the Christmas special, Matt Smith's last story, is The Time of the Doctor, and will wrap up all our questions about the Silence/Silents, Trenzalore, and just who told River "silence will fall" inside the TARDIS in The Pandorica Opens, and why it blew up.

[DRW50]

I watched the 50th a few days ago.

I had no expectations, so that worked out for me.

Good:

- I'm happy Gallifrey is back. No, it wasn't a happy home for the Doctor - it was often a hellhole for him. However, it was an identity, and it defined him. He was never the same without it. I understand why some fans feel the last eight years are now pointless, but the Doctors still has plenty of angst, and besides, RTD long ago undercut most of the Gallifrey angst by turning the Doctor's pain into emo woe over Rose. Plus, this means Leela and Romana are still alive!!

- Kate Stewart. She may not have the same twinkle with the Doctor that the Brigadier had, but times have changed. She's a very worthy successor to his legacy, and I'm really happy to see her back.

- Hurt, Tennant, and Smith. While the invention of the War Doctor is something else I have mixed feelings over (I didn't want to believe the Doctor would ever be this huge warrior, but it also feels a little like stunt casting and confusing insertion into an already confusing backstory), Hurt worked very well with David and Matt, especially when they got serious in the Tower and began talking about the genocide of the TIme War.

- I grew to absolutely despise Ten by the time he left, and I can't look at him now without feeling nauseous. Frankly, it takes a little effort for me to even separate Tennant from him, which is sad. This episode, while it showed me that Ten is very played out (they had nothing to do for him but recycling the old Elizabeth I gag), also showed Tennant's charisma and talent, and his easy chemistry with everyone. By the time he left, with that little, polite nudge toward Ten's terrible exit line, I had made peace with Ten, and can now try to put those last few years of Ten behind me and look at him in another light.

- Tom Baker! That booming voice made me emotional in a way I hadn't anticipated. I'm so happy he got to return and got to have closure. Even all these years later, so many years, he commands the screen. Yet he didn't ham it up, as he could have done. He had a genuine connection with Matt Smith and the scene felt like he was both passing the torch and reminding Eleven that things always change, and someone will always be there watching. I'd like to believe he was playing The Watcher, from Logopolis.

- The idea of all of the Doctors fighting to save Gallifrey. A beautiful moment, with a thrilling and surprising cameo from Peter Capaldi.

- The Zygons. Considering how strong Terror of the Zygons is, it's always felt wrong that they never came back. This episode showed the real potential they have as villains in the Whoniverse. The scene of Kate revealing herself as a Zygon surprised me. and was also a very effective gory moment, which we don't get on the show too often.

Mixed

- The fangirl with the scarf. She seemed like something from RTD's era. She also seemed very dated and out of place. I guess she was supposed to represent the average fan. I did like that after realizing the Doctor couldn't save her, she saved herself. Nice idea, and it was a surprise from Moffat.

- Billie Piper. I thought she did a good job as "The Moment", and I'm glad the show didn't go the route of having Rose return to charm yet more Doctors, as many fans seemed to want. Yet I sort of feel like - and I say this as someone who hated Rose/Doctor - they should have had a real scene with Ten and "The Moment," just so that their fans could have been acknowledged a little more. This is a minor complaint, as overall, I did think this worked out decently and I was happy that the show acknowledged Piper's importance without delving into a story that has already been combed to bits.

- Clara. As always, I see no personality or purpose for Clara. I felt the same way about Amy for most of her first season, so there's still a shot, but as someone who is a fan of JLC's from her soap work and enjoyed her in other roles (as Oswin, as herself in that Peter Davison comedy special), I keep waiting for more from Clara. I just can't see a connection with Smith. She had a little with Tennant, and her scene with Hurt was strong and moving, one of my favorite parts of the episode. I hope they can salvage her.

Not so good

- Sluggish pacing. The first hour or hour and a half seemed disjointed and lacking in energy. I was surprised, because Moffat's "big" episodes generally have some energy, even when the writing isn't there.

- Elizabeth I. Everything about this was just way off, IMO. I understand the joke, but I think it only worked the first time around (the Shakespeare episode with Martha). I just couldn't really laugh at Ten calling her ugly and disgusting and avoiding her at all turns. It felt mean-spirited.

- I realize that RTD's era was in large part about the importance of the companion, and Moffat's run has also put companions in the role of "so and so who will save the Doctor/save the world/etc.", but I was surprised at how meaningless the companion role, and voice, seemed in this. It's not new for anniversary episodes (the companions were also decoration in the 10th and 20th anniversary episodes), but, given the show's rich history, I wanted a little more. I wish they'd included Susan, as she was the first companion, and the most important.

All in all, I'd give it a B, and I am looking forward to seeing where we're going. The preview looked exciting. As always, Matt Smith says so much with a single look.

Edited November 26, 2013 by DRW50

[Vee]

Oh, I was sick of Ten by the time he left too. But it's been a while, and I can look back with a lot more ease now than I could, say, two or three years ago - I can even rewatch the whole of The End of Time and enjoy it more, though I hate that story. The Tenth Doctor had some great times, a pretty great run, many wonderful stories, despite some other stuff that still grates. David Tennant is also a sweetheart, so talented and grateful to the show. It also really helped that both he and his Doctor were a lot more balanced in DOTD - there wasn't quite so much of the victory-lap excesses that I felt a lot of the specials in 2010 had, but I chalk most of those up to RTD. Russell T. Davies is an incredibly talented man, but he didn't curb his impulses enough near the end of his run, and that's evident in reading The Writer's Tale, where amidst a lot of other very brilliant ideas and intelligent creative musings, he confronts the problem of the Rose solution with the Doctor clone in Journey's End, and then utterly whiffs it by giving Rose a few more lines and calling that agency enough for her to choose life with a clone. But that's a whole other discussion.

I took Tom Baker, the Curator, to be just what he said - a distant future incarnation of the Doctor who has chosen to revisit an old favorite face. We'll never see that Doctor, but that's alright - it will be out there, in the far-flung tomorrow. And thus Tom Baker will forever be the Doctor. There are rumors that he is not at all well IRL, which I hope are untrue, and so I'm glad they got this done. He had all his classic Doctor-ish tics back in there - the shushing, the cooing. He was unbelievable to watch, moment to moment. The look in his eyes.

Apparently Hurt was a last minute substitution for Christopher Eccleston, brought in days before shooting. He did wonderfully IMO. I have a feeling we may have to wait another 25 years for Eccleston to come around a la Baker.

I was a lot more intrigued by the scientist girl - Osgood - when I realized she was actually Kate's daughter, the Brigadier's granddaughter. And it was the Curator - the Doctor, Tom - who gave her his scarf.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Vee

[DRW50]

Someone told me they thought she was Kate's daughter. I didn't hear that part. If so that's a nice touch, although I wish she'd had a better defined role.

Given Tom's age I guess that's not a surprise, but I hope he's OK.

I'm surprised, with John Hurt's schedule, he was able to come in just a few days before filming. That was very kind of him. He gave a great performance.

I've never read RTD's book, but that's a fascinating excerpt. Rose's "happy" ending is one of those things that I have more and more issue with as time goes on, although maybe her fans liked it.

[difficultdiva]

I spent almost the entire weekend watching everything and anything that dealt with celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who. I haven't always been a fan of the "special episodes", but DOTD was a wonderfully funny, touching and exciting story that focused on the inner turmoil over what the "War Doctor" had done and how Ten and Eleven tried to run, forget and distance themselves from it.

I love John Hurt and I'm glad that Moffat was able to get an actor of his caliber and talent to portray that role. I do hope that in 25 years time, "My Doctor Nine" aka Chris Eccelston will rethink his position on not being involved in the history, longevity and celebration of DW and his role in the reboot from 2005. If he doesn't, it will never take away my love of the show or my love for his short, but effective portrayal as the depressed, time weary Nine.

In the first part of DOTD, Kate does mention that her assistant is her daughter. I didn't catch her name though. Hopefully, both of those characters will be involved in the new Doctor's journey, when he's introduced.

I'm glad that Billie Piper was apart of this anniversary special, especially since she wasn't Rose, but the image/essence of her. I'm also glad that she didn't at all interact with Ten. I think it would have turned the storyline into another thing that some viewers would see as another validation of the love story between those two characters. Ten's Rose is in her alternative universe with Handy and that's where she should stay.

For a series, that had the misfortune of premiering on the day after President John F. Kennedy had been assassinated, Doctor Who has made its mark in all of time and space and the entire world. 50 years is an amazing thing to achieve. I read an article that stated that 77 million people watched the special on Saturday.

Edited November 26, 2013 by difficultdiva

[Darn]

How is that possible when Hurt was shown as the Doctor in the last episode? Did they intend for Eccleston to play the Doctor in that episode first?

I just got inexplicably emotional over the idea of Matt Smith leaving. He's "my" Doctor and I just find him so incredibly talented and joyous in his portrayal. I would have loved to have seen him interact with Martha or Donna.

[Vee]

Yes, the story I have heard is they did originally have the idea in mind for it to be Eccleston. I don't know how quickly they settled on introducing the War Doctor instead, or how the shooting schedule for that vs. Hurt's quick bit in The Name of the Doctor worked.

I think Matt Smith is the best Doctor since Tom Baker, though they're all great. I wish he'd done another year or two more - I'll always wish he could've stayed longer. But Peter Capaldi is just about the best present to make up for it. He's going to be incredible, and his age also is a key element that will influence the future, something commented on directly by the War Doctor in DOTD re: how the post-war Doctors regressed.

[DRW50]

I'm going to miss Matt a great deal, although the last year didn't quite work for me in writing (I felt like he became a sex pest and I didn't see a bond with Clara). Capaldi has the potential to be wonderful, as long as they avoid the Colin Baker route.

Matt was also my favorite since Tom.

Edited November 26, 2013 by DRW50

[Vee]

I don't see how Capaldi would turn into Colin Baker. There's no comparison between those eras.

[DRW50]

The Doctor, no longer young and exuberant, now older and abrasive, being nasty to his young female companion. Moffat suggested he might go this route (not in those words) in an interview, I think.

[Vee]

Well, I don't think he'll ever be as nasty as they made Colin earlier on. He might be a little more crotchety but I think they know their limits on that. Matt Smith's Doctor was the old man in the young body more often than not.