March 19-23, 2012

[DRW50]

Have I missed ABC soap fans going around talking about how Y&R should be canceled? If anything, some ABC soap fans tried to hype Y&R, due to their disastrous stunt casting of ABC stars like Eden Riegel and Genie Francis.

[Skin]

Yeah I don't see this ABC lynch mob against Y&R at all.

ABC Daytime has been in trouble ratings wise since 07' when they started hitting 2.3's consistently and being outranked by the View. All their soaps were on notice once that happened.

[Max]

Well Carolyn1980, who was absolutely engraged when ABC cancelled OLTL, predicted a 2014 demise for Y&R (which will almost certainly have better ratings than OLTL had in 2011):

And here's an entire thread where several SONers pissed on Y&R and reported about a "likely" 2014 cancellation (and this thread was by no means the only time discussion in favor of Y&R's "imminent" demise has come up):

http://boards.soapop...__fromsearch__1

Given how much outrage there was on this board over the dual AMC/OLTL cancellation, I do indeed see a lot of pro-ABC soap folks having anti-Y&R opinions.

[DRW50]

But did they say that Y&R should be canceled because the ABC soaps were canceled, or that they have similar ratings?

[tune_in_tomorrow]

I'll let Carolyn1980 explain her reasoning, but I believe those dates for DAYS, B&B, and Y&R correspond with the end of their current contracts so those dates seem logical to me. The networks have decided there's not enough audience to justify the costs, and outside of an occasional slight bump, which are becoming more and more infrequent, the ratings are trending down across the board and have been for years. At some point, the budget can't be cut any further and still leave a product.

[Skin]

Yeah, most of the time I hear the Y&R should be cancelled is because posters think the show sucks and is completely gutted beyond recognition. They are upset because the show is bad, not because of the shows performance. It's just an opinion. Posters said the same thing about AMC and GH.

[Max]

I'm pretty sure those dates that Carolyn brought up are indeed when the contracts expire.

People are perfectly entitled to hate Y&R, but a prediction and/or desire to see it cancelled should be based upon some objective criterion. The barometer that has always been used is how that soap's ratings compares to ratings of other network daytime programming. As I explained earlier, saying that Y&R deserves to be cancelled because it has fallen so much from its peak is not a great way of enhancing the case for cancellation, because (even though that criterion is at least objective) if the same standard was applied, then the ABC soaps would have been axed long ago. (And I somehow doubt that those folks who were livid over the fact that AMC/OLTL were cancelled because they dropped below a 2.0 would have been more understanding if those soaps had been cancelled when they fell to a 3.0.)

The commonly held belief that Y&R sucks is irrelevant. It is not going to be cancelled--nor should it be--so long as it is neck-and-neck with TPIR as the #1 show on network daytime television. Y&R has never been my favorite soap, but I am just trying to be objective here. (I hate The View, but it too should stay on the air.) Truthfully, even if Passions--which I consider to be the worst TV show ever--was daytime's #1 program, I would have had no business calling for its cancellation.

[DaytimeFan]

Are you serious? You're actually dictating the criteria by which people can ask for the death knell to be sounded for Y&R? It should be based on some objective criteria you say? Then explain to me how OLTL was cancelled when its ratings were superior to GH (and I was never an OLTL fan so it was nothing to me when it was axed). OLTL vs GH was a subjective call on the part of Brian Frons and the rest of the ABC executives.

The commonly held belief that Y&R sucks is not irrelevant. If a show is on its last legs and is reviled by its fans, it's the perfect time to cancel it and replace it with something new because fans won't miss it. That didn't quite happen with OLTL and The Revolutions ratings speak to that.

Y&R is not neck in neck with The Price is Right. In fact, Y&R hit new lows this week and has dropped .7 of a ratings point in a single season! If that trend continues Y&R will be at a 2.3 this time next year and at 1.6 in 2014, the perfect time to cancel it.

[Max]

DaytimeFan, given how much you love to condemn others (particularly Americans and conservatives) for lacking knowledge, the above quote shows complete ignorance on your part. OLTL's ratings did not start "surging" until after the April 2011 cancellation announcement. Prior to then, GH had pretty much been the top rated ABC soap for the previous four years. Here is the data--complied in a chart prepared by Angela--to prove my point (the chart can be found on post #44 of the thread):

http://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/43800-latest-ratings-gh-hits-new-lows/page__st__40__p__1062009__hl__+ratings%20+chart__fromsearch__1#entry1062009

[DRW50]

Price is Right is a rotgut show, done on the cheap, a show CBS is perfectly fine with watching die a slow death. That is also their view of Y&R, apparently, only Y&R costs more. So Y&R would always go before TPIR, especially since CBS isn't the main owner.

[DaytimeFan]

How dare you suggest that I have condemned anyone when that is simply a blatant lie.

And back to the point of "complete ignorance," let's discuss the fact that OLTL ran under budget while GH ran over budget for YEARS, leading to JFP's dismissal and Valentini's hiring. Budget constraints go hand in hand with ratings, neither GH nor OLTL is/was a particularly profitable show.

Exactly.

[Max]

In the thread about The Talk, you never seemed to miss a chance to trash Americans for their backwards ways.

I see that you are now bringing up budgetary issues, but your initial statement was that OLTL was cancelled over GH despite the fact that it had superior ratings. Now that I proved that claim of yours to be incorrect, you are shifting the subject.

I have admitted that I was wrong in the past, and apologize again if my statement about Y&R being neck-and-neck with TPIR in the ratings is inaccurate. (Even so, Y&R is far and away the #1 soap and is almost certainly the #2 rated show that airs on a network's daytime lineup.) It's unfortunate that apologizing and admitting mistakes are things you don't seem to be willing to do.

[DaytimeFan]

Refer yourself back to The Talk thread, please, and read that I defended the system of constitutional monarchy against ignorant nonsense from the likes of you, nonsense that suggested that the American system was progressive and that the UK system was regressive. I do not have a negative opinion of Americans as a people, I AM American (dual citizenship). I do hold negative opinions on certain issues, but for you to suggest that I trash Americans is a blatant lie, how dare you.

You have not proved my claims regarding OLTL vs GHs ratings to be incorrect. As you should be aware OLTL, GH and AMC are all network owned programs, AMC and OLTL being filmed in ABC owned studios, they do not have contracts with ABC so they could be cancelled and moved along the timeslot at the will of the network. OLTL surged after its notice of cancellation, it surged for months in fact. Had ABC wanted to, they could have instantly cancelled GH and shifted OLTL into the GH timeslot or put The Revolution into the GH timeslot. They did not do that for subjective reasons, perhaps for brand awareness, perhaps because they simply like GH better, perhaps because a coin toss was lost. But the ratings were not the root cause of it because if the ratings were the problem all three shows would have died together because the difference in ratings points was minimal.

And bringing up budgetary issues does not shift the subject, it enhances my argument because it is now a two pronged base of logic: ratings and budget rather than ratings alone. Any show, if it does not balance financially, will fail on network television. That is simple accounting and it astounds me that you do not see that as self evident.

I have nothing to admit mistake to and nothing to apologize for, least of all to the likes of you. This is the final time I am ever responding to you Max, this argument and any other argument we could possibly have, is finished. I refuse to engage in any further communication with you. Period.

[Max]

DaytimeFan, I'll be thrilled to never talk to you again. But to anyone who belileves that ABC could have "un-cancelled" OLTL after it "surged" in the ratings, I doubt that was possible given the contractual agreement already in place with PP to move that soap to the internet.

[Errol]

Just to be clear, OLTL actually began its upward trend (year-over-year increases) during the week of March 14-18, 2011. Although many of us thought it started after the cancellations, after checking the ratings archive it is clear that the upswing began almost exactly a month before it was officially canceled by ABC.

For reference, check page 7 (currently) of the ratings archive (more data on page 8 as wel).

http://www.soapoperanetwork.com/ratings/page/7