Well that's how some people saw it. I "bought into" the Queen of nice act too but even back in her first show, that "sweet" veneer was cracking with each season. Remember when she brought Tom Selleck on to promote some movie he was doing and then attacked him about his views on gun control? or when she'd have Erika Slezak on and say how big of a fan she was of her and then when Susan Lucci came on ...Rosie said how Erika Slezak just got emmy's for have multiple personalities and nothing more. Susan was an upstanding woman and just smiled because it was awakard to her. so even back then you could tell she was two faced. Although in her defence, i can not think of another daytime talk show that has had as many soap opera actors and actresses on it. Yes Soaptalk from Soapnet but that was only on a few months out of the year, not really full seasons. Rosie did (i think) 6 full seasons and had a lot of daytime people on it. Even from other stations. I know she had Kim Zimmer on at least twice and others from other networks.

and The View, She was horrible! every week she was picking fights and having celebrity feuds with people. And unlike Merridith Viera before and Whoopie now, Rosie was not someone who could sit back and moderate (which was her job discription.) She was suposed to give her opinions and then sit back and try to let everyone have their say. that's not Rosie. Rosie was "leader" and everyone else had to jump in when she took breaths and god help anyone who disagreed with her. it was a nightmare.

but like i said before, i actually started to like the new show because her one-on-one talks have been pretty insightful. Don't care about her but she had good guests.

Oh I know the "Queen of Nice" was just a persona, but her 90s show was just fun to watch, with her soundboard and her great band and her shooting koosh balls at the audience. It was just a joy to watch.

And as for "The View" I totally get not enjoying her if you didn't agree with her, but she brought star power and drama and made "The View" relevant, at least moreso than it is now.

I totally get Rosie being like a Glenn Beck or a Rachel Maddow, where if you don't agree with her she's not as fun to watch.

I could be very wrong, but given her track record, I have a hard time believing that Rosie will take this very gracefully and in her next book she will make headlines for saying some unflattering things about O/Harpo. I'm not implying that she has no right to be upset because they fouled up on their end, but Rosie does not like to "lose" and though I believe that she has always had incredible respect for O as she has said time and time again over the years, this has undoubtedly changed their relationship. There's just no way it couldn't.

It's kind of funny, Carl said upthread that they were foolish to think O's personality alone could carry a network, and I would have actually disagreed with that. But it's almost like one of the Seinfeld co-stars striking out on their own sitcom. It doesn't always work. It's the OWS that was magic, that's the format that people loved and embraced her in. It's tough, but I think she's going to need to launch something more akin to that. Her Friday Live format with a The View-like panel may not have been such a bad idea had she prepped that to carry over to OWN where she could have ducked in and (mostly) out, not unlike BW on The View, but even less appearances with someone like Gayle in the moderator seat. Who knows... Gayle's got a similar gig now anyway.

I think the biggest marketing issue was making this seem like more of Oprah educating America. I think they should have tried for a more fun approach. You can have fun and still teach important lessons. I guess the kids' TV market is already oversaturated but I would have enjoyed seeing her try to revive some of the feel PBS shows had in the 70's and 80's.

It's striking to read that Oprah and Rosie rarely spoke about the show. Was Oprah afraid of having real conversations with her?

I could be very wrong, but given her track record, I have a hard time believing that Rosie will take this very gracefully and in her next book she will make headlines for saying some unflattering things about O/Harpo. I'm not implying that she has no right to be upset because they fouled up on their end, but Rosie does not like to "lose" and though I believe that she has always had incredible respect for O as she has said time and time again over the years, this has undoubtedly changed their relationship. There's just no way it couldn't.

It's kind of funny, Carl said upthread that they were foolish to think O's personality alone could carry a network, and I would have actually disagreed with that. But it's almost like one of the Seinfeld co-stars striking out on their own sitcom. It doesn't always work. It's the OWS that was magic, that's the format that people loved and embraced her in. It's tough, but I think she's going to need to launch something more akin to that. Her Friday Live format with a The View-like panel may not have been such a bad idea had she prepped that to carry over to OWN where she could have ducked in and (mostly) out, not unlike BW on The View, but even less appearances with someone like Gayle in the moderator seat. Who knows... Gayle's got a similar gig now anyway.

Speaking of Gayle, interesting that Oprah let her jump ship to CBS for the morning show...that is as clear a sign as any that Oprah doesn't have faith in the viability of the network.

She absolutely should have transitioned Friday's Live to OWN, but in a daily format that she could do once a week at random.

And you've said it, Oprah and OWN fouled things up on their ends badly, at least you can look at Rosie and say she tried to make the show work with changes, but like everything on OWN it was botched. Rosie cannot be happy about this, except that she didn't lose money on this deal and even though it's a failure it isn't one that will really hold her back from whatever it is she wants to do. If she goes to Broadway, wonderful. I thought she was kick ass on her Sirius radio show and should likely go back to that.

I think the biggest marketing issue was making this seem like more of Oprah educating America. I think they should have tried for a more fun approach. You can have fun and still teach important lessons. I guess the kids' TV market is already oversaturated but I would have enjoyed seeing her try to revive some of the feel PBS shows had in the 70's and 80's.

It's striking to read that Oprah and Rosie rarely spoke about the show. Was Oprah afraid of having real conversations with her?

The marketing issue is a big one because Oprah's message can be patronising and nobody is going to tune in for that. Oprah should have had a child friendly show air in the daytime, something that moms and kids could watch together and learn from.

You know why Oprah and Rosie rarely spoke about the show? Because at the end of the day Oprah doesn't really care about this network and its success, she's just glad she didn't sink any of her own money into it, the only loser in this deal is Discovery. If she was invested in this network she would be actively managing it and hustling for it. She isn't doing that. She's constantly farming out responsibility to a slew of TV execs who can't make OWN work.

DaytimeFan, we may have stronly different political views, but I am very appreciative of your incredible insights into the entertainment industry (which I almost always concur with). What do you think is next for Oprah?

Oprah is facing some very tough decisions into 2014. If OWN does not grow the time will come when Discovery will stop putting money into it and the plug will be pulled because I am certain that Oprah will not put a dime of her own money into the network, her wealth manager in Los Angeles wouldn't allow her to because the risks are massive. Discovery has put in $312 million into OWN and it was recently disclosed by Discovery that OWN will continue to lose money for over the following two years with more investment to come. I won't be surprised if Discovery's investment doesn't balloon to $500 million or more over that time period. Discovery has also said it does foresee a time when its investment will be recouped. As Discovery has put in all the money, it will recoup all the initial profit until its debts are paid, then profits will be split 50/50.

I don't know if Oprah will be patient enough with that timetable, I also don't know how Harpo Studios, Discovery's partner in OWN, will continue to operate without any profits unless Oprah drives her own money into it, something I don't foresee her doing.

I think Oprah's brand has already been tarnished and is starting to fade. The fate of O Magazine is one I am keen to watch. I have read the odd one at the dentist's office or on a plane and I have to say it's terrible, nothing of substance, a lot of nothing. I really don't know how it is a success and I wonder what circulation numbers are like. Oprah is fortunate that her business is a private one, unlike Martha Stewart's MSLO, thus excused from public scrutiny.

I think OWN is a mistake. I think Oprah would have been far better served expanding her production company to supply programming to scores of broadcasters, from the BBC to CBS to Bravo to TLC. That would have allowed Oprah to produce the niche of programming that she seems to be fixated on for OWN and casually observe projects and take a more supervisory role, which is what she seems desperate to do with OWN, which is why it's failing.

If Oprah wanted to enjoy her life and only do what she was 100% interested in, starting a network was NOT the thing to do, it's a 24/7 job. Harpo Studios was the right answer and I'm sorry she didn't take that route, she still has time to correct her course.

I wonder how soon before Discovery sues Oprah/Harpo for her share of the network. They can't be too happy.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some nasty legal battles to come soon. I bet they're itching to re-brand this network and get it away from Oprah.

They folded Discovery Health (which had better ratings) for THIS?

Edited March 18, 201213 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I think Oprah's brand has already been tarnished and is starting to fade. The fate of O Magazine is one I am keen to watch. I have read the odd one at the dentist's office or on a plane and I have to say it's terrible, nothing of substance, a lot of nothing. I really don't know how it is a success and I wonder what circulation numbers are like. Oprah is fortunate that her business is a private one, unlike Martha Stewart's MSLO, thus excused from public scrutiny.

Circulation is dropping precipitously, according to a report I read a few months back. The magazine benefited from exposure on The Oprah Winfrey Show, which of course is no longer on the air.

I wonder how soon before Discovery sues Oprah/Harpo for her share of the network. They can't be too happy.

I don't think there will be a nasty court battle. I wish I could find the article that talks about how the contract between Discovery and Oprah tips heavily in Oprah's favor. Basically, the contract states that Oprah can force Discovery to purchase her half of the network in 2014 or 2015.

I wonder if Discovery would ever sell their shares to an outside vendor, or maybe that's also prohibited by their contract.

As DaytimeFan said, they're the ones losing all the money in this. I would be surprised if there isn't some clause in there for them to wash their hands of this deal.

Oprah is not the draw she use to be. She should have just stuck with doing primetime specials a la Babs. Her show was losing viewers left and right and only went up the last few weeks and the finale.

In some ways, I do feel bad for OWN. Expectations were so HIGH and I don't think people realize it does take a few years to build a network and to find its voice. I can't recall this much scrutiny for the launch of another network.

I remember when FX first debut and it was a hodge podge of different things. It really only began to hit its in the last 10 years when it shifted its programming to more scripted shows and movies.

The bottom line is that OWN needs better programming.

Rosie should start a talk show on ABC to replace Revolution.

Circulation is dropping precipitously, according to a report I read a few months back. The magazine benefited from exposure on The Oprah Winfrey Show, which of course is no longer on the air.

That's what I expected to hear, interesting that it's already chatter in reports. Hearst runs the magazine, I recall that it's a licensing and editorial agreement with Oprah, so again, she really doesn't risk money if it folds. I suspect that within 5 years it will be no more.

I wonder how soon before Discovery sues Oprah/Harpo for her share of the network. They can't be too happy.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some nasty legal battles to come soon. I bet they're itching to re-brand this network and get it away from Oprah.

They folded Discovery Health (which had better ratings) for THIS?

I don't really know if Discovery would sue. It's a joint venture, Oprah surrendered Oprah.com and her licensing for 50% of the company and for some reason I think she had a surrender clause where her interest would be bought back for whatever she put into it. As Oprah has invested $0 at this point, she'd make $1 (since a contract needs consideration to be valid).

I wonder if Discovery would ever sell their shares to an outside vendor, or maybe that's also prohibited by their contract.

As DaytimeFan said, they're the ones losing all the money in this. I would be surprised if there isn't some clause in there for them to wash their hands of this deal.

Discovery is indeed the only losing party in this deal, it wouldn't surprise me if they had an out clause as well to fold the network, though I don't see them being able to sell their interest to anyone but Oprah. That said, the language seems to indicate that both parties are going forward for a few more years to "grow the audience" on this "journey"...I think they're both stalling to stop themselves from accepting what a dismal failure the network is.

Oprah is not the draw she use to be. She should have just stuck with doing primetime specials a la Babs. Her show was losing viewers left and right and only went up the last few weeks and the finale.

Yes and that could have been accomplished through growth of Harpo Studios. Could you imagine what NBC would pay for Oprah prime time specials? She's be a raging success.

In some ways, I do feel bad for OWN. Expectations were so HIGH and I don't think people realize it does take a few years to build a network and to find its voice. I can't recall this much scrutiny for the launch of another network.

I understand your point, but I also feel that Oprah had to expect this. It's also the first network to launch based on the appeal of a single individual, arguably one of the most famous and successful women in the world, so scrutiny had to be very, very, high. The old saying goes "they build you up to break you down" and Oprah's had 25 years of build up. This is the breaking down.