The fact is all network TV especially NBC has been stuck in a rut since around 2004. When all the older shows (save for a few) started to end and no interesting scripted programming was being produced to replace it. There's only been a few decent new shows since then. (Grey's, PP, Castle, Mod Fam...and a few more)

Network TV as it was known from the early 2000's and before is DEAD.

It is.

I watched "Once Upon a Time" yesterday (recorded of course) and was more impressed by how they tried for the broadest audience than I was with the content of the show. I have to applaud them for trying. The next 3 or 4 years are going to see changes that make this discussion irrelevant.

My theory is as long as NBC is at the bottom of the ratings, DAYS is still in good shape since they draw about 2 million viewers a day which is not that much less than what they getting in primetime. It always seems that networks tend to play it safe when they are in trouble.

Either that or it's the only loyal viewership they have outside of the TODAY show.

Honestly, the only things I ever watch or sample on NBC are their tentpole shows: Days of Our Lives, The Today Show, The Tonight Show, and Saturday Night Live.

I think ABC has potential in their Wednesday night block (I watch Modern Family, Suburgatory, and Revenge), and it seems they're putting forth effort in scripted dramas (i.e. 2 new dramas on Sunday with DH sandwiched in between). I see hope in ABC. NBC? Yeah, not so much.

Also, isn't Tim Allen's new comedy doing well? Talk about a throwback to the 90's...

Edited October 25, 201114 yr by Gray Bunny

That's how I see it. And when CBS falls it will fall hard, much like NBC did by relying too much on L&O and then futzing around with it.

I think CBS has done a better job having a broader group of shows to work with. NBC had a handful of hits and they milked those hits dry. CBS has a few older hits but they aren't relying on those. There was also a lot of arrogance from NBC in their heyday, which I haven't heard as much about from CBS. It may not be great at CBS, but during NBC's heyday, people were fleeing the network due to NBC's need to control everything.

It is.

I watched "Once Upon a Time" yesterday (recorded of course) and was more impressed by how they tried for the broadest audience than I was with the content of the show. I have to applaud them for trying. The next 3 or 4 years are going to see changes that make this discussion irrelevant.

Well and there's the problem. They want to try to compete with the cool factor of cable shows, yet still get as broad an audience as possible. And that's why we have flops like Playboy Club (love or hate Made Men, and I personally love it, it has a cult fanbase--tons of people are aware of the show, its aethetics, who don't watch and it would obviously have died on network tv). Every so often a high concept show breaks through (while I wasn't a fan by the end, Lost is I suppose the proverbial goal they all want to aim for) , but it seems less and less likely especially with how so many people will just turn to cable first anyway. But I do give props to ABC in particular for somewhat trying this year.

Edited October 26, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

CBS will rarely get "props" from me because they rarely put on an ambitious show. They don't try hard enough to do something different - I can see why because they want a broad audience. But I'm always going to be more pro NBC/ABC/FOX when it comes to networks because they at least *try* to put on different or ambitious, or heavily serialized shows. Like this year, NBC's got "Awake" and "Smash." ABC's got "The River," "Once Upon a Time," "Pan Am," and "Revenge." FOX has "Terra Nova, " "Touch," and "Alcatrez." Conventional wisdom will say most if not all these show will only get 1 season or less, two if they're lucky.

The best dramas are on cable anyway.

Here is the thing tho, out of all those shows you mentuoned... they either are mediocre at best or not really a new concept (Smash? Revenge? These are nothing new).

CBS may not try to do odd shows, but they do not have to. They know what works for them and they go with it. They do funny comedys and good legal/investigation shows with interesting cases that run for years and do very well in reruns for them. And they so go more outside the box than given credit for, they have pretty much always had a scifi/supernatural show (touched by an angel, early edition, ghost whisperer, etc). They also embrace their older and male audience, unlike other networks. Not to mention they did try to go more soapy this season with Ringer, but it was seriously awful so they passed. The Good Wife is a good mix of legal episodic and soapy drama. Even their typical episodic shows are full of interesting characters with great dynamics that keep the audience watching, namely Criminal Minds.

ABC is a down phase right now with dramas, but they are doing well on comedies. As long as they can be strong in comedy and work on drama then be strong on drama and work on comedy they will do OK.

At this point NBC is honestly nearly hopeless. I do not see any change coming soon or anything turning it around. I question how much longer they can be a viable network, much like The CW.

Smash and Revenge are at least tweaks on new subjects, and not something we've seen before (Smash, though obviously instigated by Glee, etc, seems from the pilot 20 mins to be a completely different type of musical show for example)--but I do agree otherwise.

I rarely defend CBS, but yeah, I don't know why they should have to abandon what works for them. Cable reruns of their shows get higher ratings than first-run episodes of NBC's stuff.

I rarely defend CBS, but yeah, I don't know why they should have to abandon what works for them.

I'm not saying they should abandon what is working for them. I'm just saying I don't really "respect" CBS because they don't really "try" - they just do what works, same old, same old. CBS will always be my fifth ranked network. LOL Though I do watch 5 shows on CBS. The only show I "respect" is HIMYM because it's heavily serialized, they do call backs, flashbacks, showing the future, quick witty lines and it's written like a single cam comedy.

Doesn't NBC get the Super Bowl this year? What are they showing after it?

Doesn't NBC get the Super Bowl this year? What are they showing after it?

The Voice

I'm not saying they should abandon what is working for them. I'm just saying I don't really "respect" CBS because they don't really "try" - they just do what works, same old, same old. CBS will always be my fifth ranked network. LOL Though I do watch 5 shows on CBS. The only show I "respect" is HIMYM because it's heavily serialized, they do call backs, flashbacks, showing the future, quick witty lines and it's written like a single cam comedy.

It's funny, I had a stupid "fight" with a friend who hates laugh tracks and loves HIMYM (a show I rarely watch, but do have a sort of arespect for too, for the reasons you said--I think it strives for more than most of these shows, particularly on CBS do). Hw was sure that he was right that the show didn't have a laugh track--I guess he manages to just tune it out (it really doesn't need one...)

I've always been a CBS boy, so probably a little biased, but I think very unfair to say that CBS doesn't try. Maybe in terms of having shows with more diverse casts (CBS's record for gay characters is abysmal), but CBS may rely heavy on crime dramas, but not sure how that's different than FOX's over-reliance on singing competition shows. How is giving up 3-4 hours of fall programing for an American Idol Clone "trying"? Or ABC's reliance on DTWS and "soapy" shows like Desperate Housewives, Brothers & Sisters, Revenge, and Good Christian Belles trying? Like JackPeyton said, CBS always has at least one or two "outside the box" shows a season just like the other networks, Ghost Whisperer, Joan of Arcadia, Touched by an Angel, Moonlight, Jericho, Swingtown, Harper's Island...

Edited October 27, 201114 yr by wingwalker

I love those little videos. The hit NBC shows carrying the royal NBC and the bit with the shows literally facing the axe - brilliant.