A number of soaps did seem to initially flourish as an hour--AW, AMC, OLTL all benefitted at least at first, but they also all had great teams behind them at the time.

I think the problem with an hour is the temptation to do more whether you can justify it or not. Lemay and Rauch brought in so many new characters who were out of there within a year, two years, played by people who weren't going to stay around, all while established characters were slowly hung out to dry. This turnover led to a ridiculously small amount of characters who ended up carrying the show.

The late 70's and early 80's AW I've seen - when there are full episodes, or a good chunk of episodes, amounts to:

- Mac, Rachel, Iris and friends

- Mac, Rachel, Mitch, and friends

- ...and those other people who just happen to somehow be on the show.

Edited September 6, 201114 yr by CarlD2

I certainly have NO idea why they ever thought making A 90 minutes was a good idea (I've read that Lemay loved the idea--but he seemed to burn out and leave within months...)

This is the type of thing that led to Richard Bekins appearing in like 175 consecutive episodes. Now I would love to watch Richard Bekins every day of the week on a soap, but that's just very very poor planning, especially for an hour format.

I certainly have NO idea why they ever thought making A 90 minutes was a good idea (I've read that Lemay loved the idea--but he seemed to burn out and leave within months...)

Even when I was loving them at their best, I cant imagine having to watch AMC or OLTL for example for 90s minutes everyday. Looking back at history, that does seem like a foolish decision for the shows that did do that

Even when I was loving them at their best, I cant imagine having to watch AMC or OLTL for example for 90s minutes everyday. Looking back at history, that does seem like a foolish decision for the shows that did do that

And this was before VCRs were common place (I imagine nowadays a 90 minute soap would prob be an hour plus commercials, though they had less commercials back then)--90 mins just does feel like such an investment. I can't imagine what the actors thought--I know many had a very hard time moving from 309 mins to an hour anyway--back in the 30 minute days they would routinely be done filming before dinner time so it was much easier to also do theatre work, etc.

Agnes definitely had a little team working with her in the early days of AMC. I think three or four other writers. But I guess that's mostly because she was working on OLTL at the same time and needed some help.

And this was before VCRs were common place (I imagine nowadays a 90 minute soap would prob be an hour plus commercials, though they had less commercials back then)--90 mins just does feel like such an investment. I can't imagine what the actors thought--I know many had a very hard time moving from 309 mins to an hour anyway--back in the 30 minute days they would routinely be done filming before dinner time so it was much easier to also do theatre work, etc.

The main actors (Beverlee McKinsey, Douglass Watson, Victoria Wyndham) said it was the hardest they'd ever had to work.

It's funny because on some of the tapes from back then, around early 1980, whoever did them at the time must have gotten a little bored, because in some episodes, you can see bits of OLTL, then they quickly flipped back to AW. It's like...wow there's Clint and Edwina...wait, there's Ada again!

Ha that is funny!

Agnes definitely had a little team working with her in the early days of AMC. I think three or four other writers. But I guess that's mostly because she was working on OLTL at the same time and needed some help.

That's what I remember from those old credits--although I believe she had a few co-writers on OLL from the start too (of course for a year or so she was writingboth it and AW, the way she was writing both AW and GL for a brief bit).

I agree about hour soaps being a blunder. The only hour long soaps that ever held my full attention were the GH of 79/80 and GL 80-84. Bill Bell resisted for years making Y&R an hour and when he did, all of the actors contracts had to be re-negogiated and John McCook and Brenda Dickson left. I think the half hour format should have been used by CBS to save ATWT and GL, but of course CBS had other plans involving Mrs. Leslie Moonves.

I think we can see how the change in format took the writer out of the equation to some extent. Look at this screencap from a 1975 EON

No associate head writers, no assistant writers, no dialogue writers and breakdown writers, just one writer writing, like the job implies. I think in later years he had some help from Lois Kibbee.

Now the quality of the show is sort of beyond the writer's control because he doesn't even get to write the dialogue.

To be fair and accurate, it should be pointed out that Henry Slesar did always have an associate writer, but during the CBS years, the associate writer was only credited in the episodes he wrote. Henry's associate penned two scripts each week; Henry wrote everything else. For most of the CBS years, Henry's associate was Frank Salisbury, who later moved over to GH under Doug Marland. Salisbury left Edge in 1975 and was replaced by Grace Garment. When Garment disappeared in a plot seemingly lifted out of the series, and was later found dead, Frank Salisbury returned until Henry could find a suitable replacement. He was suceeded by Steve Lehrman. ABC did not like Lehrman's work. After Lois Kibbee succesfully wrote the show during the 1981 WGA strike, she was hired permanently, replacing Lehrman. Lee Sheldon had a number of associate writers, including Kibbee, who stayed until her character was written to be the killer in a murder mystery.

But Quartermaine, your point is well taken. Clearly, when one writer calls all the shots, the show has better continuity, focus, and vision.

Henry Slesar told me that writing a half hour was harder, but he found it much more fulfilling because the reduced time meant that all of the "fat" had to be cut. It forced the writer to focus harder on the crucial elements only. Henry felt that hour long shows were really half-hours with more padding. For many series, I feel he was correct. The one soap I feel truly benefited from the extra time was Another World, because Lemay wrote the show more like a stage production.

I liked the 15 minute format, as well. If you watch those episodes of GL from 1966, you will see just how focused the show was on whatever the day's story happened to be.

Those GL eps are very strong, it's true--that was still when Agnes Nixon was writing, right? I know when she left to focus purly on AW and then OLTL Gl went through a shocking number of HWs in one or two years.

I wonder if people would watch a 15 min soap now though? It's prob be about 11 mins of programming, and it might be hard for people to get hooked on something so short (though it's not as bad as some of those early websoaps which seemed to have three mins of credits and two of prgramming).

Edited September 7, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

"What is it with soaps and dead children?"

Here's the thing: no one enjoys watching a child, even a fictitious one, die under any circumstances. But the death of a child can make a strong impact on a show in terms of future storylines...if planned properly. (Case in point: GH's BJ/Maxie heart transplant.) Nine times out of ten, however, killing off a child does amount to a desperate ratings ploy on the part of the show.

I wonder if people would watch a 15 min soap now though?

I think they would, yes. In fact, it's probably the ideal length for soaps, given the fact that people tend to watch shows these days on not just computers but cell phones, iPads, mp3 players and other handheld devices as well. Of course, it all depends on the quality of writing and acting, doesn't it? No show, regardless of length, will survive if lacks substance.

It's prob be about 11 mins of programming, and it might be hard for people to get hooked on something so short [...].

I'm not so sure about that. I could be wrong, but I don't think even the original, 15-minute soaps such as GL, SEARCH FOR TOMORROW and LOVE OF LIFE were exactly 15 minutes per episode. Didn't they always set aside about 2-3 minutes for commercials?

I'm not so sure about that. I could be wrong, but I don't think even the original, 15-minute soaps such as GL, SEARCH FOR TOMORROW and LOVE OF LIFE were exactly 15 minutes per episode. Didn't they always set aside about 2-3 minutes for commercials?

Yeah, and if one was on TV now it would probably be about 10 minutes and 5 commercials since daytime programming now is 1/3 commercials. Actually I have that set of 80 GL radio episodes from roughly 1951 (and yes I've listened to thgem all but not since I was a teenager), and I think sometimes when you took out the announcer and soap ads ("Put new Duz in your washing machine, finest Duz you've ever seen, bigger news now you can sing, D U Z does everything") ethere's often just 8 minutes of content, usually one or MAYBE two conversations an episode.