That honestly wouldn't offend any of you? I'm offended just thinking about it, and I'm straight...

But she wouldn't say it because "still" implies it was an acceptable and commonplace word at some point prior, and it never was. Chinaman was actually word people used without ever thinking they were saying any sort of ethnic slur. You are saying that if she said "oriental" instead of "Asian" it is the exact same thing as if she said "gook" or "chink". Some words were offensive and slurs from day one, and some words are just outdated and it took a long time for people to realize they were saying things that offended.

But she wouldn't say it because "still" implies it was an acceptable and commonplace word at some point prior, and it never was. Chinaman was actually word people used without ever thinking they were saying any sort of ethnic slur. You are saying that if she said "oriental" instead of "Asian" it is the exact same thing as if she said "gook" or "chink". Some words were offensive and slurs from day one, and some words are just outdated and it took a long time for people to realize they were saying things that offended.

Exactly. In the UK and Ireland "chinaman" only fell out of vogue maybe 20 years ago, if that. Now, "Asian" means "East Indian" in the UK, whereas "Oriental" is used to describe people of Asian descent.

Yeah, I think chinaman was in the same category as negress, Jewess and the like that just land wrong on our ears now. I do however think it's absurd to call someone who isn't even Chinese a chinaman. There was this older gentleman who used to live around my way who I ran into a few times walking his two Pekinese. I heard him charmingly say to other people he'd greet with dogs, "Has your fella there ever met a chinaman?" It's just not something that dawns on people of a certain age. However. Joan is cosmopolitan enough to update her vocab. She's just sort of digging her heels into the ground.

I see what you're saying, but I think she is doing it deliberately. She has to know that she's going to offend people, and she doesn't care. In some instances that's great, and more power to you. But in some instances you come off as overbearing and bitchy.

Even still, her comments about overweight people are still disgusting and ignorant.

I don't think her comments about overweight people are uncalled for at all. I need to lose 30 pounds myself, and seeing as how I used to weigh 175 pounds when I was 25, I'll tell you right here and now, I'd dearly LOVE to weigh that again.

She's speaking about a subject she knows nothing about. She's never been overweight, and that right there is reason enough for her to keep her damn mouth shut.

She's speaking about a subject she knows nothing about. She's never been overweight, and that right there is reason enough for her to keep her damn mouth shut.

She's been pregnant three times and lost the baby weight three times. As well, your point about her never being overweight herself proves her point: she knows plenty about how to stay slim and healthy. There is no excuse for being overweight aside from thyroid problems (which are corrected with medication) and complete physical immobility. It's harsh but true, if you're overweight you really are digging your own grave with your teeth.

She's been pregnant three times and lost the baby weight three times. As well, your point about her never being overweight herself proves her point: she knows plenty about how to stay slim and healthy. There is no excuse for being overweight aside from thyroid problems (which are corrected with medication) and complete physical immobility. It's harsh but true, if you're overweight you really are digging your own grave with your teeth.

I know, my best friend is really obese... when we were 21, he had a beautiful body... and now he looks like a woman who's 7 months pregnant, and i'm not exaggerating... top that off with he started smoking when he was 25, and he now smokes 1 1/2 packs a day and drinks a half gallon of Dr. Pepper a day instead of water, talk about disaster waiting to happen. and it pisses me off, because he has a high metabolism, and all he would need to do is drop the Dr. Pepper, and most of that weight would fall right off. When I was 175 pounds, I had to eat 1,200 calories a day to maintain that. and I worked in a garden center lifting and moving bushes all day.

The reason *nobody* should be offended for Joan's love of Reagan and Thatcher is that Joan doesn't love them for what they actually did, but what the media has made them out to be. Joan, whether she wants to admit it or not, is a feminist (albeit one who thought she looked better with her high heels on) and that's why she loves Thatcher, simply because she's a woman and a tough one at that. Reagan, let's be real, was C-list Hollywood actor, Joan has known the Reagans from her days at 20th Century Fox. They're friends, simple as that. Plus, they're both from the '80s, Joan's celebrity zenith, it's all nostalgia. She's totally ignorant to their actual policies aside from the fact that both cut taxes.

Joan's assumed the "Voice of the Past" role in Britain, she represents and likes a time in the UK's history where there were reasons to be proud of Britain. Having lived there for the past two years, she is 100% correct in her assessment of the place. Unless you've lived it (and not necessarily in London, but in more rural areas or smaller cities) it's impossible to really understand her perspective.

This is VERY true--good point. I have a friend who actually met her at a political party in the UK a number of years back, and asked why she was supporting the candidate (and I don't remember who it was or even for what party) and she basically stated all personal reasons--she liked him, thought he presented himself well, they ahd been friends, etc. As my friend said, she seemed completely clueless, and not to even remotely care, about the actual politics he was behind.

Which hardly sounds like a good thing, but I can in a way appreciate. Well maybe appreciate is too strong a term, but I can understand. She hasn't gone out publicly speaking out FOR any of their policies or acted like she should be trusted for her political views. And as backhanded a complement as this is, I don't think most of her fans, particularly her gay fans, take her point of view on things seriously anyway.

A lot of her rudeness probably comes from insecurity too, although that's not really an excuse. While I don't think she is Alexis in real life I think she probably connected very easily with those elements of Alexis - it's one of the reasons why the character holds up so well (far better than characters like JR, not to mention most of the Dynasty caricatures, IMO).

The Chinaman comment annoys me particularly because I have two British friends who are all pro gay rights, etc, but see a HUGE Asian threat coming into the UK. But instead of trying to explain rationally that maybe they're put off by so many immigrants, or whatever (and I know it's a big issue in the UK--though one I can't comment on), they positively relish, much like Joan seems to, in calling all of them Chinamen (and they're MY AGE)--saying there's no difference if they come from Korea, Japan, whatever, they're all from the orient and chinamen. I think it is an offensive, and dangerous, attitude, and Joan is a woman of the world and so I'm not sure age is a good defence for her. It's not like my now gone Grandma sitting in her home decrying the chinamen. How would people react if she publicly said the same thing about all her faggot friends? (And yes, I do think it's the same). It's just a bit disappointing, and I think it does somewhat set a precedent for people to find it amusing that she says it and say it too (and no, I don't think Joan owes it to anyone to be a role model, but...).

Sorry for causing trouble, but seriously, if Joan had made the same type of "outdated" comments regarding gay people, I doubt that some would be so dismissive of the things she said. There does seem to be a double standard here.

Being a conservative, I obviously loathe our culture's need to be overly politically correct. However, there is a difference between being politically correct at all costs (i.e., refraining from saying anything that many be perceived as remotely "insensitive" by a minority group) versus saying things that are just downright insulting towards minorities (which is what Joan did in reference to fat people).

...and chinamen--but yes, I completely agree. It's not about being politically correct (it's horrible how many times people complain about being judged because they're not politically correct). I'm very liberal, but I do think political correctness went way too far--but there's still such a thing about being sensitive, and context. Chinaman may not be quite as offensive, for various reasons, as calling black people the N word, but I doubt Joan would proudly brag about calling D Carroll when they were on Dynasty a Negress...

Carl, I wasn't referring to the backlash that Joan would get from the American public at large, but rather the backlash Joan would be getting from those who are gay. Somehow, I just don't think Qfan and some others would feel it's alright (at Joan's old age) for her to call gay people "homos" and "queers" because those are "outdated" comments. (Whereas Qfan used this very rationale to explain why it was acceptable for Joan to refer to Asians as "Chinamen.") And how would any gay person feel if Joan said that she felt sorry for homosexuals, because (as she explained was the case for the obese) they will have trouble fitting into "mainstream" society?

They probably would be fine with her saying homo, and particularly queer which have sorta become ironic terms many gays use themselves, as I said, fag, would be a totally different issue. I agree with you--and your following point. The thing is, nobody said she should admire overweight people--or Asians, why should she admire people because of one aspect of themselves? But... It would be completely different if she had said all this in a FunnyOrDie skit mocking herself, or something, which maybe she should have.

I think Daytime fan is absolutely correct about the Reagan/Thatcher thing... she's too busy being fabulous to be really intrentched in political BS. And I certainly do not equate "chinamen" with "queer"... one is a slur, the other is an outdated descriptive term. I don't see "chinamen" being any different than "russian", Mexican", or whatever... granted, in the US, we would say "chinese", but I just chalk that up to the british way of speaking.

That's really not true. It's not as bad as saying (pardon me) chink, but it is seen as derogatory--I'd say at least on the level of queer, which as I said, has been largely re appropriated. It's not as bad as the fag, but it's insulting nonetheless and condescending--and I do think to act indignant that she should try to not use the word makes little sense.

Reagan and Thatcher were personalities, people got really caught up in what they were, rather than what they did and what they did economically did a lot of damage years after they were out of office.

From the gay perspective I think it was more about gay issues--Reagan's crap handling of AIDS is one thing, but the damage and laws passed under Thatcher against gays really are, in hindsight, pretty shocking.

Obesity in the majority of American states is between 22-30%. That is a deadly number and Joan is correct that they are digging their own graves with their teeth. As a physician I am never going to accept that fat is something to be accepted. Fat is dangerous and unhealthy. Joan's rude about weight, that's her issue, her point, however, remains valid.

I do agree with this--obviously the reaction is to how she said it (and I do find it odd, again, that she feels she was asked to admire them). If asked about anorexia would she make the same comment the same way? Actually, maybe she would...

Edited August 24, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

I think the difference is even in Joan Collin's day, calling people "homos" was deemed an insult so that is something she would know better about. Its not like that word suddenly fell out of vogue last year or even twenty years ago. With that in mind, I don't think there is even a chinaman's chance she would ever use that phrase. But I could see her saying "oriental" and not "asian".

I remember this poster well

Oriental is bad, but I think chinaman is seen as worse. Regardless, I disagree there--I think homo became a word you weren'tmeant to say AFTER the word chinaman. Of course Joan has probably worked and known many more gay men than she has Asians, so maybe that's a part of the ignorance.

Preach Eric! PREACH!