Her exit in 02 though was just hard to watch, although her performance was great throughout. But that final shot of Laura being wheeled away was honestly so hard and harsh for the character. Knowing for at least six years (bar 06) she would be stuck like that. I didn't watch when Lulu went into a coma but hopefully that was done a bit better.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Tangent here: I myself had always heard going back 20+ years that Guza II actually started unofficially, pre-credits, with Carly's car accident and fake 'death' a couple months prior to this, right after Carly found Sonny and Alexis in bed together at the end of April(?). And IIRC the writing change and day to day quality improvement really showed right away in that period with the deeper drama, the raw outpouring of family grief, the dramatic re-jiggering of Alexis' character (complete with the scripts viciously spoofing the Sonny-obsessed version of Alexis under JFP/McTavish by bringing back Susan Diol to play Alexis in her dream/fantasy), and what seemed like a very direct statement to cement Tamara Braun as the new Carly both with the family mourning the totality of who Carly had been up to that point, then with her dramatic return at her own funeral and passionate reunion with Sonny. That whole sequence of events felt like Guza putting his stamp on the recast and fully embracing her.

It felt that way to me too! It wasn’t quite as jarring as the changes in 1997 right before Guza was back in the credits, but it had the same spirit. That funeral was pure Bob Guza to me. The Luke and Laura scenes feel more like the longterm sub writers doing than his. The Labine era staff writers used to have a lot of those little filler scenes that had some lightness to them, especially between Luke, Laura, and Lucky.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

We certainly would've seen something different in the 2000s, since by most accounts it was not Guza's choice to let her walk in '02. I have no idea what that decade looks like if Genie had stayed. It might have mitigated some of his worst choices and instincts.

And one of his big stories upon that return hinged on Laura, even if we never saw the whole thing anyway. His 1996 stories for L&L were really more Laura focused than Luke focused.

Rick was supposed to be a bigger problem for the hospital as well as the story with Laura, which changed a couple of times too. None of it was any good, but I think Scotty being the one having the affair with the nurse would have been the best of all the bad situations that didn’t happen. I’m glad they didn’t go with molestation or Bobbie being involved with Rick.

3 hours ago, BadBoy93 said:

It still boggles to my mind why JFP took such an axe to so many vets during her reign to which the show around 05/06/07 became almost unrecognisable from where it was at the beginning of the decade.

Had Frons been in power when she was at OLTL I think the same thing would have happened there. She did enough damage without him, but her instincts about older vets lined up with his. She ran things a lot like corporations do now. Instead of a long vision it was managed quarterly to coincide with sweeps. So if they needed a jolt, she would goose the demos with a death or some other shocking short term boost. And if they needed budget for something she would cut a big contract.

YeahI always got the sense JFP's run felt like that. Particularly with the sweeps stunts. Some were great fun, others not so much. But Its hard to know whether a bad idea on screen was the result of either Guza, JFP or Frons.

4 minutes ago, BadBoy93 said:

YeahI always got the sense JFP's run felt like that. Particularly with the sweeps stunts. Some were great fun, others not so much. But Its hard to know whether a bad idea on screen was the result of either Guza, JFP or Frons.

Thanks to MVJ, I know Alan’s death was not Guza and I hated on him for years thinking it was. That writing team did not want to kill Alan. We also know Anna Lee was Jill, as was losing Amber Tamblyn, Sarah Brown, Genie Francis, and she played a part in Vanessa Marcil not staying in 2002. The overall tone and darkness/misogyny was a combination. And Frons played a huge part too.

29 minutes ago, BadBoy93 said:

Her exit in 02 though was just hard to watch, although her performance was great throughout. But that final shot of Laura being wheeled away was honestly so hard and harsh for the character. Knowing for at least six years (bar 06) she would be stuck like that. I didn't watch when Lulu went into a coma but hopefully that was done a bit better.

A great example of the actor just wanting to act and embracing how dark something could be. Both Tony and Genie wanted to act, they wanted to explore things that challenged them, and had emotional depth for them to go to. As an audience, we maybe don’t like those stories. I also didn’t enjoy the end of that story, or something like Luke killing Jake. But they do.

I always got the sense that Alan's axing was Jill. Execs tend to control the contracts and thus make the final decision on who stays/goes, etc. The writers simply do the stories unless an exec wants a certain story told. So no, never blamed Guza. For all his faults, when he delivers he delivers. It's just the guy was obsessed with mob stories that it made watching GH ill to watch sometimes.

1984 continues...This is historic as it's the first of several hundred mental breakdowns that Terry will have over the course of the next 3 years. I guess we can attribute them to daddy Brock who started them with this episode.

7 hours ago, BadBoy93 said:

I always got the sense that Alan's axing was Jill. Execs tend to control the contracts and thus make the final decision on who stays/goes, etc. The writers simply do the stories unless an exec wants a certain story told. So no, never blamed Guza. For all his faults, when he delivers he delivers. It's just the guy was obsessed with mob stories that it made watching GH ill to watch sometimes.

Stuart Damon had been there without an exit since late 1977. His had to be one of the most expensive contracts on the show. I tend to agree it was about the budget and Jill. She was also notorious for using focus groups to justify getting rid of people. This was before folks on GH were being asked to take the kind of wholesale and significant contract cuts that the AMC cast had to when they moved to California, or the Proctor and Gamble soaps/DAYS casts did. It’s a big part of why John and Marlena were cut the first time too. A fast slash of the budget to allow them time to make other kinds of cuts down the road. Kim Zimmer famously refused and wouldn’t renegotiate her rates before her deal expired, and still had the contract clause that they had to pay her out if they fired her that some of the actual big names had back then making the cycles longer than 13 weeks, so they just publicly blamed her for other cast cuts.

It was a combination of many things. He was not cheap, they were systematically devaluing veteran older performers and characters across ABC, they wanted a large moment for sweeps, and he wasn’t “sexy”. A lot of that is from Brian Frons, and Jill would absolutely have played ball. I have brought it up before, but I have a huge amount of respect for Kimberly McCullough for speaking up about Damon’s firing on the set and to the press.

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It was a combination of many things. He was not cheap, they were systematically devaluing veteran older performers and characters across ABC, they wanted a large moment for sweeps, and he wasn’t “sexy”.

Which was just so absurd to me - even at age 70 and in poorer health, Stuart Damon was still sexier than a lot of men half his age - but, hey, that's ABCD for ya!

Edited Monday at 01:01 AM2 days by Khan

1987 continues....

Thanks to an eagle eyed GH fan/viewer who noticed on Youtube I missed this episode. Here is the missing Dec 11 1984 show. I am glad I didn't miss it because good ole Derek just can't keep his hands off GInny! (no formal complaints are being filed against him so I guess Ginny is enjoying it! lol

Edited Monday at 04:30 PM1 day by MrEdge80s

13 hours ago, Khan said:

Which was just so absurd to me - even at age 70 and in poorer health, Stuart Damon was still sexier than a lot of men half his age - but, hey, that's ABCD for ya!

Yeah, I didn’t get it either. But he wasn’t thin and used as a leading man in stories by GH like David Canary was at AMC during the same timeframe. There was plenty for him to do, even in allowing the next generation to naturally take the forefront. And he still had all that charisma and passion and his edge, which should have made him easy to write for.

What makes me sad is that he was a team player and was well liked by the cast and crew and had a character with range and with ties to the parts of the show that they were invested in at that time. The cast and crew loved him. People like that should not be tossed away by these shows. He never looked bored, I rarely if ever saw him tread the over the top line in his performance even if stuff he and Monica were doing was over the top. Alan and Stuart Damon were honestly my Maureen Bauer. Not the same kinds of characters, but also integral and shouldn’t have been tossed out.

Edited Monday at 02:43 PM1 day by titan1978

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Yeah, I didn’t get it either. But he wasn’t thin and used as a leading man in stories by GH like David Canary was at AMC during the same timeframe. There was plenty for him to do, even in allowing the next generation to naturally take the forefront. And he still had all that charisma and passion and his edge, which should have made him easy to write for.

What makes me sad is that he was a team player and was well liked by the cast and crew and had a character with range and with ties to the parts of the show that they were invested in at that time. The cast and crew loved him. People like that should not be tossed away by these shows. He never looked bored, I rarely if ever saw him tread the over the top line in his performance even if stuff he and Monica were doing was over the top. Alan and Stuart Damon were honestly my Maureen Bauer. Not the same kinds of characters, but also integral and shouldn’t have been tossed out.

Agreed.

I just think in general Fons & JFP didn't like The Quartermaines and sought to neuter them out of the show. They almost succeeded but then JFP was ousted and Frank has had to resalvage the family as best he can.

Emily was an avoidable death. No reason to kill her at all. AJ was brought back then killed again which was a shame as I always thought he was a fun foil to Sonny over the years that wasn't mob related.

I'd like Maya Ward back, as well as Keisha and perhaps reunite with Jason. Maybe she had a child that's AJ's and never told him. That could be cool.

1984 continues....Meanwhile our heroes are back from the San Antonio ranch adventure

1987 continues...

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Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by MrEdge80s