44 minutes ago, Khan said:

As we all know, there have been plenty of story ideas for soaps that sounded awful "on paper," but actually weren't half-bad once the shows were allowed to play them out.  Endgame, no matter which version of the story (Geary's or McTavish's) actually landed on the air, was never going to be one of those ideas.  It wasn't 1981 anymore, and Geary and Genie Francis were just damn too old to still be mixed up in action/adventure capers like that one.  Everyone involved should've known better.

I think action/adventure is a part of GH's DNA at this point, and can be done well in certain situations and with a skillful use of budget. (As they did with the Metro Court hostage situation in the 2000s, and as Frank did in 2012 with the water crisis which probably saved the show from the axe.) But I don't think they should keep attempting it in the chintzy ways they have for much of the last 5-6 years. Either commit to something more impressive or with scale/scope and cut a few expensive people to help pad the budget, or don't do it. The Michael fire stunt in January was very impressive, but that's a smaller example.

Of course, the way I'd do an Endgame kind of situation would be ludicrously ambitious, but would only be done that big in order to transition the show from the network to something revamped and more streamlined on Hulu/streaming, with grand promotion and fanfare - and it would only do so by blowing the show's annual network budget lol. Go big on your way out, I say! But it sure wouldn't be a bunch of confused boomers wandering some cheap tunnels. That's where Frank and Ron used the canvas much more effectively during the water crisis - appropriate action, for the most part, happened with appropriate people at appropriate places spread all over Port Charles (not unlike folks hunkering down at Kelly's or wherever in '81 re: the weather machine). When the town was saved, everyone was shown celebrating at various places and that's how it should be.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Vee

Didn't the Endgame stuff also involve Helena poisoning one of the kids so that she could control Tony and a brainwashed Lucky? Or was that sometime before? Cause Tony was involved in that mess too and I think was who originally brought Stavros back. Helena was big into poisoning people for a while. This was also around the time she pushed Stefan overboard and ran over Chloe thinking she was Alexis. I'd blocked out that Melissa and Roy were still around during all that too, oof.

Even then, I remember thinking all that was kind of lame lol, and I was still really into GH at that time. It just felt like a retread of that storyline from the 90s with Faison where he was poisoning people (Paul's daughter and somebody else, maybe Felicia or Anna?) so that he could keep Sean, Robert, and the Quartermaines from finding out about whatever he was up to. Tony and Bobbie had been involved in that story too so it all felt very retreaded territory and so stupid.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Sure, but this was also still in the period well before Tony started parroting the Guza line about Luke and Laura. Until around 2007 he was very respectful and reverent of that legacy, from what I recall.

I don't remember him deciding he hated that story until around then too. Before that, he'd always been fine with it. It was around whenever the Skye and Tracy romances were full on and teenage Lulu moved into the Quartermaines. That's when all of a sudden the "Luke hated everything about Laura and the family" version of events became a thing. 

3 minutes ago, AdelaideCate007 said:

Didn't the Endgame stuff also involve Helena poisoning one of the kids so that she could control Tony and a brainwashed Lucky? Or was that sometime before? Cause Tony was involved in that mess too and I think was who originally brought Stavros back.

Yes and yes. He was in on that, but he was portrayed pretty sympathetically. Helena poisoned little Lucas.

Roy and Melissa were the heroes of the show that year, but even JFP had to make them take a backseat to Luke and Laura in Endgame. IIRC Melissa stayed topside worrying over Edward. I think by then (fall/November) Angel had been written out, Jill and Megan knew they were in serious trouble and so Roy and Melissa had begun to be pulled back on. By February or so of the following year, Melissa was out and carted off to jail.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Same here, lol!

As we all know, there have been plenty of story ideas for soaps that sounded awful "on paper," but actually weren't half-bad once the shows were allowed to play them out.  Endgame, no matter which version of the story (Geary's or McTavish's) actually landed on the air, was never going to be one of those ideas.  It wasn't 1981 anymore, and Geary and Genie Francis were just damn too old to still be mixed up in action/adventure capers like that one.  Everyone involved should've known better.

I don't think it helped that Nik, Gia and Lucky were the only younger ones involved.  This could have been a passing of the torch adventure moment, but it was more like 80's stars reliving their glory years with a side of Jax because the show had no idea what to do with him.

4 hours ago, AdelaideCate007 said:

Even then, I remember thinking all that was kind of lame lol, and I was still really into GH at that time. It just felt like a retread of that storyline from the 90s with Faison where he was poisoning people (Paul's daughter and somebody else, maybe Felicia or Anna?) so that he could keep Sean, Robert, and the Quartermaines from finding out about whatever he was up to. Tony and Bobbie had been involved in that story too so it all felt very retreaded territory and so stupid.

Tiffany was the other prominent poison victim.

This is a rather abrupt change of subject but I saw it on the Daytime Confidential Comments board by a poster who goes by "ShivRoy" & it frankly fascinated me & I wanted to run it up the flagpole here. It began with the question aren't Charlotte & fill-in-the-blank cousins. 

Quote

Charlotte and Spencer are half first cousins (because Nik and Lulu are half siblings)
They are also half first cousins once removed (because her father, Valentine, and his grand-father Stavros were half brothers via Helena)
They are also second cousins once removed (because her grand-father Victor and his great-grand-father Mikkos were brothers).

Also, if you add up all the coefficient of relatedness associated with those relationships, you get to 11% which is in the range of a full first cousin.

 

12 hours ago, Vee said:

Roy and Melissa were the heroes of the show that year, but even JFP had to make them take a backseat to Luke and Laura in Endgame. IIRC Melissa stayed topside worrying over Edward. I think by then (fall/November) Angel had been written out, Jill and Megan knew they were in serious trouble and so Roy and Melissa had begun to be pulled back on. By February or so of the following year, Melissa was out and carted off to jail.

What ended up happening to Roy?  I know they gave him Hannah as a daughter, and he was dating Felicia and then he was gone.   Did he just leave town?  The last time I remember seeing him was during the very beginning of the Brenda returns story and he was working for Alcazar and still with Felicia.  I am sure he most have gotten some exit or ending to the character.  I guess it shows how little minor the character became if I haven't even questioned where he went until today lol.

3 minutes ago, carolineg said:

What ended up happening to Roy?

IIRC Sonny sent him off to work for him in Miami after Roy flipped on Alcazar to help Sonny and Brenda. Felicia turned down his marriage proposal and off he went.

I actually really liked A Martinez in the role until JFP got her hooks into trying to make him the unbearable star of the show. I thought AM was very good with both Tony and Genie, and okay with Jackie despite the bad story. I even liked him with Kristina Wagner. Oh well.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Vee

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

IIRC Sonny sent him off to work for him in Miami after Roy flipped on Alcazar to help Sonny and Brenda. Felicia turned down his marriage proposal and off he went.

I actually really liked A Martinez in the role until JFP got her hooks into trying to make him the unbearable star of the show. I thought AM was very good with both Tony and Genie, and okay with Jackie despite the bad story. I even liked him with Kristina Wagner. Oh well.

Thanks.  That checks out with the last time I recall seeing him.  I remember him flipping on Alcazar.  

I can't say I particularly cared for Roy.  I do remember liking him with Laura and their friendship.   He definitely worked better in a supporting role.  Even if I ignore JFP's annoying propping of AM, the character of Roy just wasn't strong enough to lead. 

3 minutes ago, carolineg said:

He definitely worked better in a supporting role.  Even if I ignore JFP's annoying propping of AM, the character of Roy just wasn't strong enough to lead. 

He absolutely was not strong enough to be an A-lead, and everyone but JFP learned that when she tried. The year of Roy and Melissa in 2001 was painful. GH was the flagship of the network, and Jill couldn't play the same favorite games she had at other soaps including OLTL.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Vee

7 minutes ago, Vee said:

He absolutely was not strong enough to be an A-lead, and everyone but JFP learned that when she tried. The year of Roy and Melissa in 2001 was painful. GH was the flagship of the network, and Jill couldn't play the same favorite games she had at other soaps including OLTL.

Correct.  I really do think JFP is intelligent in some aspects of running a show, but the favoritism and misogyny is real with her.  GH also had an embarrassment of popular leads to choose from at the time.  It was unnecessary to shift to newbies like Roy/Melissa.  In 2001 people weren't even that sick of Sonny, Jason, or Luke yet and there were a lot of vets (in JB's age range) just waiting for story while Melissa took over the show.

This is a clip with RC/Skye & LW/Carly & they throw down but that part is not my point. What I don't know that I'd like to is what in the devil is Alcazar pretending to be somebody named Delgado who is marrying Blair?

 

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

In 2001 people weren't even that sick of Sonny, Jason, or Luke yet and there were a lot of vets (in JB's age range) just waiting for story while Melissa took over the show.

I knew it would tank trying to run her game at a show with as many big stars as GH and installing frankly middlingly popular people like Jensen Buchanan from another show, but even I wasn't sure it would tank JFP's creative career as hard as it did. Once Guza came back she was done in terms of having any real power at GH. Richly deserved.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Vee

17 minutes ago, Vee said:

I knew it would tank trying to run her game at a show with as many big stars as GH and installing frankly middlingly popular people like Jensen Buchanan from another show, but even I wasn't sure it would tank JFP's creative career as hard as it did. Once Guza came back she was done in terms of having any real power at GH. Richly deserved.

Most of 2001 is extremely painful.  Not only the Roy/Melissa show.  The aforementioned Endgame, Angel, the Lucky story just to name a few things that year.  JFP was lucky to keep her job at all.

I still always question the reasoning in hiring leads from failed shows to lead another show. It works in some cases, but their star powering wasn't enough to keep their show on the air.  You can't just plop them on a new show with a long history and hope it translates.

21 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Most of 2001 is extremely painful.  Not only the Roy/Melissa show.  The aforementioned Endgame, Angel, the Lucky story just to name a few things that year.  JFP was lucky to keep her job at all.

I still always question the reasoning in hiring leads from failed shows to lead another show. It works in some cases, but their star powering wasn't enough to keep their show on the air.  You can't just plop them on a new show with a long history and hope it translates.

And t his applies double to someone like Jensen Buchanan who after bleeding her old soap dry, she signed on to do her best  or worst .... in this case, to the soap known to be located in Port Charles NY.

Edited March 17Mar 17 by Contessa Donatella