This statistic really surprised me, because the only soaps that have/had the reputation as being "acceptable" for straight males to watch were EON, Dallas, and possibly Dark Shadows. Before I became a soap fan, my sterotypical perception of the ABC soaps (except EON) was that they were the most "feminine" of all (particularly AMC), because they champoined socially liberal storylines. (I'm ashmed to admit this, but there I went again with the stereotypes, with women being perceived as politically liberal and men as conservative.)

Funny, I often think--totally unfairly--that middle aged women, particularly housewives, are more conservative than most other groups. Again that's just a totally biased mental tick I have, one that I realize doesn't hold much truth.

I think part of that strong rqatio for AMC, and probably ABC soaps in general, was the rise of the college and youth audience, who didn't feel as much of a stigma about watching soaps and being a guy. ATWT, etc, had a strong rep at the time of being "your mother's soaps" as one NYTimes article on the college phenomena quoted a student saying. Agnes Nixon also had a rep for having more complex male figures than many shows where the men were seen as either being the villain or the rather bland romantic hero/rescuer character.

Oh, wait... I forgot. I'm TOTALLY offended by this topic!

Okay, carry on.

That's not saying that all men who work third shift jobs are straight, nor is it saying all men who watch soaps only do so because they worked third shift jobs. It's just stating an aspect that I know of yet haven't heard attributed to the question why a considerable portion of soaps viewing audiences were male in the pre-VCR days.

Great point. In that book I always bring up (and already have in this thread) Wakefield says he started watching partly because as an author he found he could only write in the evenings and nightime, so he'd sleep through the morning, and AMC would be on when he woke up. His friend (who was a woman but an artist) had a similar schedule and he found out she watched as well--plus when doing book tours you spend a lot of time in the day in your hotel room, etc.

(He also said that as a kid, no guy would admit to listening to radio soaps, saying it was worse than "being caught in the closet masturbating", until one high school drunken post football after party when suddenly everyone started quoting the introduction to Ma Perkins by heart).

Edited August 19, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

at the risk of sounding shallow i used to watch for the male characters. the more the merrier. that and i like watching a show about bitches. admittedly that sounds very gay. :S

I'm familiar with the work thing. A few summers ago, I'd bring my dad his lunch at his workplace, and he works at a big warehouse/factory-type place (that I've never really learned much about, to be honest), so it's mostly guys working there, and sure enough, their lunch hour was spent watching the news and B&B. Which makes me wonder...would the average straight man be more willing to watch soaps if they're watching them with other guys? That way, he's not singled out for watching because they all are.

I wish this thread had been made when I needed a social studies project in the ninth grade...

at the risk of sounding shallow i used to watch for the male characters. the more the merrier. that and i like watching a show about bitches. admittedly that sounds very gay. :S

It sure does but I'm sure that's a part of the appeal to many gay fans. I've never actually been a particular fan of bitch or diva characters one way or the other, though I know a lot of gay viewers who do love that aspect, but I'd be lieing if I didn't say the frequency of attractive guys who were often shirtless appealed to me as a teen (oddly it has less appeal to me now--I guess if I want to see naked men I have, umm, other resources). Like I said, soaps for a long time were practically the only programming on TV that cast men to appeal to women. Before at least the 80s, in film and tv, for the most part men were cast with not all that much thought on appearance, whereas the women were hied often primarily to be eye candy--soaps being, even in the early days when you'd never see a guy shirtless, the exception. Of course that's completely changed now--men are sexualized on MOST tv nearly tot he same extent women are and I think within a few years it will be fairly even handed (which is not always a good thing, instead of superficial things getting better for women to make things more even it just seems they've gotten worse for men to make things more even, but that's another discussion).

As already mentioned, it's more about straight men being less willing to say that they like soaps because of deeply rooted gender roles. Being straight, I've never had a problem saying that I like soaps, but I'm one who doesn't get caught up in what others think about the little things (non-conformist) and think that good television is for everybody.

I admit I don't know many gay males but the straight ones that I do know just don't watch soaps it isn't appealing to them not that they are ashame of watching because they admit to watching cooking shows, I know about three men who are hooked on cake boss, and home improvement shows which including decorating. In my experience most straight men prefer comedy, action and sports but I think it is really that most men just don't watch much tv, playing video games yes. Every male I know is an outside sorta guy into sports not just watching but actually in leagues, or hanging out with the fellows playing cards/dominoes and drinking.

It may be a generational thing, where now that the wife/partner is not watching neither are they but I just don't see many men gay or not watching and its not because they are not willing to admit to it.

Eric the dance thing is funny maybe its black culture but I had just as many boys in my dance class as girls, and growing up nobody made light of male dancer. Us girls used to be jealous that they were so loose on the dance floor, but I'm talking more street style dancing than ballet. Nowadays you see guys just break out dancing at the drop of a dime.

I think some of that depends on who you know. My older bro (who actually watched soaps before me--he got hooked on Days when he was recovering from a bad illness and home for two months--and I was probably 9 but used to mock him about it I hate to say, though he only watched for a few years), and his group of friends--all straight, basically only watch dramas (more cable stuff, etc) and the odd reality show, but none of them are too into sports, except Soccer, lol.I do think it's a good point though, as less and less wives, and mothers (to be stereotypical--but sure, husbands and fathers too) watch soaps, less people get exposed to them. And I know for a lot of people, once they become adults, if for some reason they tried watching a soap they just wouldn't have the patience to try to catch up with stories, and characters and know what's going on. It might as well be in a foreign language--whereas with serialized shows like Sopranos or whatever, you can catch up on DVD, etc.

Interesting about the dance thing. I basically did every kind of dance I could at where I studied (though I started off with tap when I was four cuz I was obsessed with Gene Kelly lol), but I grew up West Coast Canada, which doesn't have much of a black population (I think there were maybe three black kids in my *huge* high school). Certainly dancing--I think even stuff like ballet, but certainly more contemporary forms have never been nearly the same issue with black men (which is probably partly why so many black men, to use yet another stereotype, are MUCH better dancers than white men).

I'm DaytimeFan and I'm straight, married with a toddler and I've been a soap fan for decades!

I like the familiarity, consistency and pace of soaps. I like watching women have power, which is why I'm not so much of a fan of daytime currently (sans DAYS which still has kick ass female characters).

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful responses this thread has received thus far.

Sorry to take this a bit off-topic (as this does not relate to soaps), but the subject of sociology is so fascinating to me. (In fact, a whole college course could be offered on the sociology of soaps.) In regards to the sociology of sports (which was discussed a little bit earlier), a college textbook I had made the observation that stereotypically "gay" activities--such as hugging teammates after winning a game--are completely acceptable in our homophobic society precisely because sports are considered the most "masculine" of all endeavors. (Thus, a lot of leeway is granted towards athletes' "feminine" behavior, to the point where society doesn't even question their heterosexuality.)

Now, getting back to the topic of soaps, I wanted to further elaborate why (back when I was a non-soap viewer) I perceived AMC to be the most "feminine" of all the soaps. In addition to its socially liberal storylines (that I referenced earlier), non-soap viewers basically associate AMC as the Susan Lucci/Erica Kane show. (I know that this is an insult to AMC fans, but that is the reality of the matter, much in the same way as all non-soap viewers esentially know about ATWT and DOOL are that they are the soaps symbolized by the globe and hourglass, respectively.) Unfortunately, the non-soap viewing public has no idea of the existence--let alone greatness--of male characters such as Tad Martin, Palmer Cortlandt, and Adam Chandler.

Edited August 19, 201114 yr by Max

I'm a straight male and watch I Soaps and clearly, religiously post on this board. There were a few points through the years where I didn't post much due to me finding no interest in any of the shows, but obviously I'm back full time. I occasionally force friends to watch them with me, and then they start asking questions and in the midst of detailing a storyline I find myself thinking holy crap this is absurd...This has lead me to typically just not even bringing them up unless there's a soap related question at trivia.

I think people are kidding themselves when they say more straight guys would watch if they just happened to be home. Babies, miscarriages, abortions, weddings, affairs...this is the dross that soaps traffic in year after year and why would that appeal to straight men? I often wonder why it appeals to straight women but I guess there is a point of view thing at work there.

I think people are kidding themselves when they say more straight guys would watch if they just happened to be home. Babies, miscarriages, abortions, weddings, affairs...this is the dross that soaps traffic in year after year and why would that appeal to straight men? I often wonder why it appeals to straight women but I guess there is a point of view thing at work there.

BUt its not appealing to any audience much anymore. Look at the attrition of viewers. Well 2-3 million viewers is still a good number but nothing compared to how its been over the years. And I think its time to start a thread on why younger women are no longer drawn to soaps. When you look at the decrease in viewers and even with the increase in viewers OLTL is experiencing, younger women aren't watching. Like it or not soaps have traditionally been a genre as you said for women. But thats a discussion for another thread.

I think people are kidding themselves when they say more straight guys would watch if they just happened to be home. Babies, miscarriages, abortions, weddings, affairs...this is the dross that soaps traffic in year after year and why would that appeal to straight men? I often wonder why it appeals to straight women but I guess there is a point of view thing at work there.

I think the people who said that were referring mostly to when soaps were in good shape, critically and popularly.