B&B: Old/Classic Discussion & Articles

[Videnbas]

It is true that the show had planned to go to Italy in late 2001 but chose to postpone the location shoot due to 9/11. And while we don't know for sure if Macy's return was planned to happen then, there are several indications that this may have been the case (Macy's brief return in the summer of 2001, followed by Sally mentioning that Macy was "burned beyond recognition" so that Sally was left "without a body to bury").

Of course, the presence of the truck driver (who happened to be a female with the same hair color as Macy) is an indication that at the very least, Bell always intended to leave the door open for Macy to return. And the scene between Kimberly and Adam six months later pretty much confirmed that Macy was alive and living with her father.

I am watching Macy's resurrection now on Youtube and enjoying it. It is like an improved and condensed version of Taylor's Morocco storyline.

[Soapysoap]

Darling me need meet and greet some day

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[Anooj]

@MaximFor a challenge, what about the Top 5 worst storylines of the classic 1987-1993 period?

This is actually pretty hard, but I guess I’ll go for:

- Donna/Mark (1987) - Not too interesting outside of Rocco’s jealousy and the camp value of a ”teenager” played by a man with such a deep voice. Also essentially reset-buttoned.

- Donna/Thorne (1989-1990) - A timewaster between Caroline/Thorne and Macy/Thorne without much attention spent on it by the writers.

- Ridge/Taylor/Storm love triangle (1990-1991) - Storm’s recast didn’t work for me, and something else about it was lacking that I can’t put my finger on. Ridge/Taylor/Blake was a major upgrade.

- Felicia/Zach (1992) - Not a bad storyline really (the gambling addiction stuff with Jack is pretty compelling), but too much of a repeat of Felicia/Jake, in that Felicia again falls for a guy with a troubled past he’s secretive about and so forth.

- The 2nd will-Sally-hire-Clarke-back-or-won’t-she plotline (1992) - Not bad either, but it feels like all the momentum got sucked out of the Clarke plotline after the highly dramatic scene where Sally and her crew cornered him and Kristen in the bedroom. Instead, we get a repeat of the summer ’91 plotline where Sally isn’t sure whether she can trust him again or not, and while the scene where Sally finally throws Clarke out of Spectra is amazing, it feels odd that this rehiring plotline was thrown in - If Clarke was on his way out of the show, wouldn’t it work better dramaturgically to move more swiftly to Sally & Clarke’s final confrontation, rather than the show doodling around and then bringing him back to the company for 5 minutes? The lack of resolution as to what happened to Clarke/Kristen was pretty odd too (though she would mention on a later ’93 visit that they’re together)

[Maxim]

Woof... You are hitting the nail on the head again. But let me think about it tonight and I'll come up with my top 5 worst Bill Bell storylines. It's a great challenge

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  I have some that are very different from yours and some that will surprise you since I think people liked them. I will give a spoiler right now - Ridge basically raping drunk Caroline who was married to Thorne at the time, slipping into her bed at night.

The rest later when I have more time...

[kalbir]

I did not like Ridge taking advantage of Caroline after she had overindulged in champagne, especially when considering she had been raped a year earlier.

In Bill Bell's defense that was during the writer's strike so who knows if it was even his idea.

[Anooj]

I guess the writer’s strike is also why the plot about Ridge exploring franchising behind his father’s back disappeared into a limbo. The start of Clarke/Margo was also rather abrupt and out of nowhere, but not sure if that’s down to the strike or just the need to quickly work in Lauren Koslow’s IRL pregnancy.

[BoldRestless]

I never knew that. That is good to know.

 

There was a sort of foreshadowing months earlier when Ridge slipped into Caroline's bed when she first got her apartment, and let her think they slept together, until she implied he must have been bad in bed since she didn't remember anything. He's such an ass, then, now, and forever.

[Maxim]

It was disgusting. And one of the reasons (there are many) why the character of Ridge should be written off... He also raped Brooke while she was heavily drugged and very much in love with Nick. 

 

 

[Anooj]

What even was up with that 2006 storyline? It’s like Bell was experimenting with turning Ridge into a Sheila-like villain (very misguided), and then got cold feet and retconned it as a ”misunderstanding” or somesuch (making it even worse). I remember RM even complained about the storyline in some interview, as he previously did about Ridget.

There’s also the circumstances surrounding Bridget’s conception, where Eric apparently slept with Brooke while she was drunk, and the latter couldn’t remember doing it. Then in 2009, Taylor slept with Ridge while he was either drunk or on sleeping pills (apparently she somehow didn’t notice), after the Rick/Steffy thing had strained the relations between Bridge.
 

Then Thomas did a similar thing to Caroline II in 2015 (maybe early 2016?) and got her pregnant, which had great soapy potential if the show had actually treated it as rape. Imagine a storyline where Ridge claimed the kid as his, and out of both anger towards his son and a desire to protect Caroline (maybe even subconsciously fearing losing her to Thomas, as illogical as that may be), faked the paternity test to show himself as the father. Then it would all come out years later and provide great drama. But Bell chickened out (assuming he was smart enough to conceive what I wrote above, which is doubtful), retconned the nature of the event, and actually made Caroline and Thomas a couple

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Edited November 22, 2024 by Anooj

[kalbir]

1988 writers strike was March 7 to August 7, so almost half of 1988 was strike material. 

[Maxim]

As promised to @Anooj here are MY top 5 worst storylines from the Gold era. I don't claim that these are the actual worst storylines, but what I personally didn't like. I want to say this because in SON people sometimes misunderstand what others mean. And we get into useless arguments. This is just my own pet peeves and nothing more. I still believe 1987-1993 was nearly perfect.

1. Ridge rapes Caroline. We had this bizarre scene in which the creep Ridge waits for Caroline to get nearly unconsciously drunk, stalks her and her husband to their bedroom and sneaks into their room while his brother is downstairs having a snack. He then proceeds to have sex with his sister in law, all while she thinks that is her husband. Sick and perverted. Destroyed a bunch of characters. Stephanie hiding this from Thorne was not cute too. But... we all know Stephanie always prefers Ridge and favoritizes him. 

2. Thorne shoots Ridge. It was a storyline that followed and came out of the disgusting point 1. A lot of people appreciate and like this storyline, but I think it was too long, too depressing and dreary at times and quite frankly the aftermath (hiding who did it) was boring. Stephanie going to jail for a quick second was fun, but the annoying detective that was repeating the same question every day, nearly made me stop watching. That is the most boring Bill Bell period I recall.

3. Margo's brother Jake and his uncle molesting him. Too disturbing, dark, repetitive, unbearable at times. And it went on and on and on and on. I hated it.  We weren't that invested in Jake to begin with... He came out of nowhere and his storylines were always so depressing. He just sucked the air out of every scene he was in. I was so happy to let him go when he was written out. I was counting the episodes.

4. Macy cheating on Thorne with Jake. It was such a stupid storyline. Made no sense to me. Macy was so in love and obsessed with Thorne and an soon as they were together... She had an affair with Jake. A stupid, idiotic, boring affair. And they had absolutely no chemistry. It felt so wrong.

5. Kristen and Mick Savage. It was unbearable to me and I didn't buy it at all. Kristen had so much more potential with Clarke, so putting her in this absurd triangle with Macy and Mick was not my cup of tea. I despised Mick. He was not charming or interesting to me. Just a creep.

 

[Maxim]

2003 and Massimo wanting Bridget and Ridge is unbearable to watch. And Macy's melodramatic return with Sally fainting for 5 minutes... is another low for the show. The quality dropped hardcore. 

[yrfan1983]

Around 20:00, Lee Phillip Bell talks about her role in the creation of BnB, specifically the casting of the principal roles

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[Maxim]

This was amazing to see. Very exciting. Huge thanks for sharing. 

[Anooj]

I’m at March 96, and I have to say the show has - at least so far - really rebounded from the bad state it was in during 1994 and some of 1995. Bridget’s paternity reveal, Sheila’s storyline and her obsession with Brooke, and Clarke’s return are all interesting storylines. The jury’s still out on the Sly/Jessica thing (since I’ve heard a lot of criticism of how that storyline is handled), but so far I’m reasonably (but somewhat less) interested in it. Dylan’s stripper storyline seems promising, and unlike Jessica, I don’t find him boring. The writing quality isn’t quite on par with the Bill Bell era, but just like the early 00s, it’s never boring and lots of dramatic stuff keeps happening at a quick pace. We’ll see how the momentum keeps up.

The second half of 95 wasn’t honestly as bad as many here have said, either. It has severe problems with story cohesion, as it actually has many dramatically meaty things to it (Maggie/Dylan, Rick’s obsession with reuniting his parents, Eric’s fake proposal to Sally) that come and make their mark, but fail to have a satisfying follow-through. Stuff like Taylor’s stalker or the Maggie/Connor relationship simply disappear without explanation. If I picked a random 2-3 week segment from late 95,  I’d say the show is actually pretty good and a vast improvement to 94 and early 95, but it’s the overall coherence, the big picture, that’s lacking. Stuff flung at a wall to see what sticks.

If I had one major complaint about 96, however, it’s the muddled nature of Eric & Stephanie’s relationship. They looked like they were reuniting in late 95, even getting bedroom scenes, but since then the show has left us in a limbo as to whether they’re now a couple or if the reunion fizzled out or got retconned out of existence. I’m frankly not even sure where Eric even lives, as his house (the one where he lived with Sheila) hasn’t been seen in 2-3 months, but the show hasn’t explicitly stated he now lives with Stephanie either. The writers really dropped the ball here.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Anooj