I would say it's pretty subjective, as someone else said above.

However, I think the most devastating in terms of, "Hey, the soaps are really dead" to those in the know is the cancellation of OLTL. Never before has a show that wasn't at the bottom of the key demographic been cancelled. OLTL's cancellation was the sure sign ABC wanted out of the soap business, and the sure sign that GH is gone next.

GL was dead last when it was cut....ATWT was dead last in the demo when it was cut....and even AMC was dead last in the key demo when it was cut. Sure, AMC's was a big deal to those outside the soap world because of Susan Lucci, but it was no surprise to those watching the ratings in soapland, whether they be actors, directors, writers, producers, or just viewers. Indeed, if OLTL hadn't been cut with AMC, the thought of GH being gone by next September wouldn't have even been considered.

However, I think the most devastating in terms of, "Hey, the soaps are really dead" to those in the know is the cancellation of OLTL. Never before has a show that wasn't at the bottom of the key demographic been cancelled. OLTL's cancellation was the sure sign ABC wanted out of the soap business, and the sure sign that GH is gone next.

GL was dead last when it was cut....ATWT was dead last in the demo when it was cut....and even AMC was dead last in the key demo when it was cut. Sure, AMC's was a big deal to those outside the soap world because of Susan Lucci, but it was no surprise to those watching the ratings in soapland, whether they be actors, directors, writers, producers, or just viewers. Indeed, if OLTL hadn't been cut with AMC, the thought of GH being gone by next September wouldn't have even been considered.

Carolyn1980, your previous post made some good points. However, you are wrong when you state that OLTL was the first soap to be canceled that wasn't at the bottom of the key demos (upon getting axed): back in 1999, AW outpreformed SuBe in the women 18-49 demographic, and had more total viewers than both PC and SuBe. (I am uncertain if PC did better or worse than AW in the women 18-49 demos.)

Furthermore, both Texas and The Doctors were concurrently canceled in 1982, and it's highly unlikely that they both finished a tie for dead last in the demos. (In terms of households, Texas scored about 1.0 ratings points higher than The Doctors at the time.)

Edited June 8, 201114 yr by Max

My opinion is AMC. ATWT and GL were at the top ratings-wise until the era of 18-49 demos really took hold in the 1970s. They were "your grandmother's stories." AMC was the first to ride the youth wave, knocking ATWT from #1 for the 1978-79 season based largely on its appeal to high school and college students. GH of course would follow it once Luke & Laura hit the scene. Now those high school and college students are middle-aged and approaching demographic undesirability, if they haven't already passed it. So daytime soaps no longer attract housewives (what's left of them) and no longer draw the youth and young adults. I think that the loss of a show that was able to draw the young once upon a time really shows the end of the era since that's what all the shows have aimed for during the last 35 years. Of course the end of one era is the beginning of another so let's see what it will bring.

I say this not to diminish the losses of OLTL, ATWT, GL, AW, and even Ryan's Hope and Search for Tomorrow, all of which I watched and enjoyed at various times over the years.

Carolyn1980, your previous post made some good points. However, you are wrong when you state that OLTL was the first soap to be canceled that wasn't at the bottom of the key demos (upon getting axed): back in 1999, AW outpreformed SuBe in the women 18-49 demographic, and had more total viewers than both PC and SuBe. (I am uncertain if PC did better or worse than AW in the women 18-49 demos.)

Furthermore, both Texas and The Doctors were concurrently canceled in 1982, and it's highly unlikely that they both finished a tie for dead last in the demos. (In terms of households, Texas scored about 1.0 ratings points higher than The Doctors at the time.)

When AW was canceled, the general consensus at the time was that the slightly higher rated SuBe would go shortly after...and it did. As for Texas and The Doctors, they were the two lowest-rated soaps in the key demo when they were canceled.

That's a myth.

Another World ended in June 1999

Sunset Beach ended December 1999

Port Charles ended October 2003

Three soaps canceled within four years? Everyone is kidding themselves into believing that network television didn't start trying to find "other options" for their daytime lineups until 2009's cancellation of Guiding Light. Especially when ABC gave back the 30 minutes that was for Port Charles (in already limited markets) back to its affiliates. Here in the NYC/CT/NJ tristate area, it's been syndicated Who Wants to be a Millionaire for the last 8 years!

Sunset Beach and Port Charles were never a ratings grabber. There wasnt much shock with them being canceled. AW had been in the dumps in the ratings for years. Was it a shock? Yes

Edited June 8, 201114 yr by Soapsuds

When AW was canceled, the general consensus at the time was that the slightly higher rated SuBe would go shortly after...and it did. As for Texas and The Doctors, they were the two lowest-rated soaps in the key demo when they were canceled.

SuBe was never slightly higher than AW- AW consistently beat it in the ratings. Plus, AW's ratings were on the rise in its final year, when a decision was being made between the 2. Most "in the know" were well aware that SuBe was a goner after AW left the airwaves.

And while I do agree (mostly) with your previous post, I must point out that Santa Barbara was not at the bottom of the ratings heap either when it was cancelled. It was well above the lower-rating Loving for pretty much its entire run.

When AW was canceled, the general consensus at the time was that the slightly higher rated SuBe would go shortly after...and it did.

Sorry to be argumentative, but I can never recall Sube being "slightly higher rated" than AW among women 18-49. (Perhaps you are referring to a more narrow demo, like women 12-34. However, when somebody says "the key demographic," it is still generally considered to be women 18-49.) Unfortunately, I cannot find the data on the internet, but back when I observed the ratings in the soap magazines, AW always came out on top of SuBe among that demo (although I concede that the demos for both soaps were horrible). Among total viewers (which is not relevant to your point), AW had about a million more viewers than SuBe.

As for Texas and The Doctors, they were the two lowest-rated soaps in the key demo when they were canceled.

This is similar to the current situation at ABC: OLTL & AMC were the two lowest-rated ABC soaps in the key demo upon cancellation. (While OLTL would sometimes outperform GH in the women 18-49 demos, it is a fact that GH--when one looks at yearly performace--had superior demos to OLTL.) The only difference between the two situations is (obviously) that Texas was the second-lowest rated soap in daytime (back in 1982) while OLTL is not currently the second-lowest rated soap in daytime. However, ABC has made a decision to cancel two soaps at the same time (much like NBC did back then), and they obviously cannot cancel a soap (with lower demos than OLTL) on another network. Hence, the two worst performing ABC soaps (among the demos) are being canceled.

Edited June 8, 201114 yr by Max

9. AW 2.5/10

10. PC 2.0/8

11. SUBE 1.7/7

And this was in 1997.

ATWT was most devastating because it wasn't on life support the way GL was.

OLTL's was the most shocking to me, but mainly because I believed some of the crap Jamey Giddens spewed.

9. AW 2.5/10

10. PC 2.0/8

11. SUBE 1.7/7

And this was in 1997.

NBC wanted both soaps gone. They just canceled AW first because it was more expensive, SuBe was ending no matter what because NBC was launching 3rd hour of Today Show.

ATWT was most devastating because it wasn't on life support the way GL was.

Agreed

Sorry to be argumentative, but I can never recall Sube being "slightly higher rated" than AW among women 18-49. (Perhaps you are referring to a more narrow demo, like women 12-34. However, when somebody says "the key demographic," it is still generally considered to be women 18-49.) Unfortunately, I cannot find the data on the internet, but back when I observed the ratings in the soap magazines, AW always came out on top of SuBe among that demo (although I concede that the demos for both soaps were horrible). Among total viewers (which is not relevant to your point), AW had about a million more viewers than SuBe.

Lol. I actually meant to say the "slightly lower rated" SuBe.

That said, the difference in the key demo between the two when AW was canceled was negligible. In fact, SuBe skewed much younger than AW. Still, as I said, it was generally expected that SuBe was going to go shortly after AW regardless.

But back to OLTL and AMC, I stand by my statement that this was the moment that even the hopeful insiders (like Brad Bell, who had just stated that we were down to the six shows that would survive and thrive....or Frank Valentini, who knew AMC was in trouble but thought OLTL was safe) knew all hope was lost. AMC was dead in the water; only those outside of daytime were shocked it was axed. But OLTL? The show was on the upswing, finishing better than or competitively with the other surviving soaps....and ABC let everyone know they wanted out of the soap business by cutting it loose.

Edited June 8, 201114 yr by Carolyn1980

And while I do agree (mostly) with your previous post, I must point out that Santa Barbara was not at the bottom of the ratings heap either when it was cancelled. It was well above the lower-rating Loving for pretty much its entire run.

SB did better among viewers as a whole its final year, but Loving actually outranked it among women 18-49. In fact, as early as 1990, NBC was considering replacing SB with a soap that might appeal to younger viewers.

SB did better among viewers as a whole its final year, but Loving actually outranked it among women 18-49. In fact, as early as 1990, NBC was considering replacing SB with a soap that might appeal to younger viewers.

Here are some SB ratings from its last year

Dec 14-18, 1992

HH

1. Y&R 7.9/30

2. AMC 6.6/23

3. ATWT 5.8/22

4. B&B 5.6/19

5. GH 5.4/18

6. GL 5.3/18

7. OLTL 5.1/18

7. DAYS 5.1/17

9. AW 3.2/12

10. SB 2.5/8

11. LOV 2.4/9

Dec 28- Jan 1, 1992

HH

1. Y&R 9.1/27

2. AMC 8.0/23

3. B&B 6.5/19

4. GH 6.3/18

5. ATWT 6.1/19

5. OLTL 6.1/19

7. GL 5.9/17

8. DAYS 5.3/15

9. AW 3.6/11

10. LOV 3.2/9

11. SB 2.9/8

If viewers from 1992 could see the ratings today compared to then, they'd probably laugh at us