OLTL Tribute Thread

[SFK]

Wow, I kind of tuned out when she called her a straight up failure. I freaking loved what LG did for the show, she's the reason why I hung in there for damn near twenty more years. Geesh...

[DRW50]

I think she meant in the broader sense, because a success in soap terms is someone who is copied.

[SFK]

You know, it's funny, the whole TV movie comparison, because for all of these years I've been chasing those great Lord of the Banner and DID "TV movies" hoping I'd see the likes of them again.

Yeah, I got that, but that paragraph just landed like an anvil. It sounded kind of nasty, and not unintentionally. And I love Connie/Marlena.

[EricMontreal22]

Marlena's attitude to LG really is one point where I don't agree with her view at all (I often disagree on points, but I think fundamentally I usually get where she's coming from). While she vaguely mentions it, she doesn't give enough credit to the absolute shambles of a show OLTL quickly became in the 1-2 years before Gottlieb came in. I also don't, in hindsight, get the offence many soap fans felt towards having an outsider come in on "their" show--I guess since then we've had such worse examples of people both from outside of the soap industry, and more so, from inside, who have done far more damage to the shows they come to--what Gottlieb did to OLTL really didn't ultimately betray the show's tone or fabric at all, and there WAS a lot of deadweight to get rid of. The short term stories and characters didn't work, but they tried that, and gave up on it relatively quickly (really within a year). The social storylines in hindsight seem kinda heavy handed, but at the time I don't think they did, and I also think OLTL needed a return to that--they had gone as far in the other direction as they could have under Rauch.

I get what Carl says about the era ultimately leading to in the way the destruction (at least partially) of characters like Vicki, but really i someone had come on to the show and instead of changing directions, tried to just one up, and take character and story from the successful Rauch era, I feel much of that would have been destroyed MUCH faster. It seems unfair to blame lame stories that took their starting point from the Gottlieb era *on* the Gottlieb era, unfair. That's like saying that the sequels people have done of Pride and Prejudice mainly suck, and it's Jane Austen's fault... (well, not quite, but) That less talented teams of EP/HWs (and that includes later EPs who worked with Malone and Griffith--but mainly Malone solo) have taken seeds from their characters and stories and turned them to crap, isn't their fault--although some of what they did was destructive in and of itself.

[DRW50]

Even at the time the social stories got quite a bit of criticism - I was surprised to go back and read SOD give a "thumbs down" to the rape story, saying that while they liked the directing of the episode, Marty was extremely unlikeable, Todd did not have enough motivation to become a rapist, Marty had no reason to believe Kevin raped her, Kevin sitting around outside made no sense, etc.

I think a lot of the soap press saw Gottlieb as an outsider and judged her work to a higher standard than they may have judged others. Beyond that, I do think that she had good decisions, a lot of style, put building blocks in place, but it's also very noticeable how much of her era only really worked in her era. Todd's character, Luna, Luna/Max, Tina, Marty, Alex, the changes in Viki. So much of this fell apart very quickly after she left, most of it in a year or less.

Edited March 2, 2012 by CarlD2

[EricMontreal22]

Some of this is just my reaction to the show at the time--and I was fairly new to soaps, and hadn't really found any appealing except AMC and, less so Loving--so stories like Marty's rape were a revelation to me (it also was the story that got my twin sister and mom fully into soaps--briefly for my sister, but more longterm for my mom). The point was that Marty was unlikeable--wasn't it?--but I guess that was very "un-soap like". Todd not having enough reason to be a rapist is nonsensical, when you look at real situations, but I admit was outside of the norm at the time in soap operas where rapists were either characters who appeared that very episode, or long term characters. In a way the criticisms remind me of those mid 1970s criticisms in the soap press for AMC which (largely) read to me as people objecting to a soap doing some different things...

You are right though that she deserves (well, her and her collaborators) slightly more criticism than I stated above for the fact that others seemed unable to make many of her key players and story concepts work past her. I still think though, particularly considering how soaps fell apart in the second half of the 90s anyway, and how many other examples there are of great eras of soaps and characters imply not working when their key creators leave (AW in the 70s being a good example), that it's not a fully fair criticism.

Edited March 2, 2012 by EricMontreal22

[DRW50]

I think in some cases it was down to the decline of soaps - certainly, in a strong soap era, Andrew would have remained a core character for a long time. But many of her ideas seem like they were more suited to a project with a shorter lifespan. Once Marty goes through all the fallout and rebuilding of her life, what is left for her? Aside from fans enjoying her chemistry with Thorsten Kaye, there was nothing. What was there for Todd? He was an unworkable character mostly powered by an intense actor. Keeping him around killed the character, and heavily damaged the show. Alex reached her peak after a few years and then had a slow decline. The Viki abuse story was powerful at the time but led to so many bad story consequences.

I agree with you about the rape story - I thought Todd had enough motivation (based on what was shown of the character).

[EricMontreal22]

I'm glad you agree about the rape. As to Marty, I think she could have been successfully matured as a *true* shrink, not just an aged heroine with no actual shrink storylines. The desire to help others after she has helkped herslef makes a lotof sense--but I'll never understand why soaps have never (in my experience) been able to keep a *sane* shrink an interesting character (I hate to say this but Marlena may come the closest--at least every 10 years she offers some shrink-like advice, but she's not even close to what I mean). Usually shrinks on soaps are day players, or are psychopaths--yet to have a core member of a show be a shrink seems such an easy soap fix--most soap fans would love to see sessions where characters actually talk about their dilemnas in an organic way.

I agree about Todd. From all I've read that was one place where Griffith and Malone disagreed as well--Malone gives Griffith credit for developing Todd, but then Griffith wanted Todd off the canvas, and Malone seemed all too eager to make him some Byron-esque figure--but none of that is really Gottlieb's fault.

I think we'll have to disagree about the Vicki story--partly for personal problems--her story actually helped my mother deal with a lot of her past, and I can't imagine that happening from any other medium, but it is true that no one knew what to do with her after that. She was too vibrant a character to turn into a Ruth Martin type figure already at that stage, yet... Not much they gave her since then really was preferable to that outcome.

[DRW50]

I like the idea of her being a shrink (although she was not in that field until after SH left in 1997, right?), but it just seems like the show got stuck on making her the traditional heroine. In many ways I feel like the rape cut her character off long term in terms of development.

What bothers me about the Viki story long term is I think Viki became a very weak character. There's nothing wrong with adding more layers and pain and explanations, but when it became about this crippling burden of her life, and Todd as the reminder of her father's evil, and the annual trips out to the Lord crypt to yell at Victor, and so on, it just felt like Viki had little strength. This was probably enhanced by the awful changes Disney made once they bought ABC.

[Khan]

Despite whatever else I have said over the years about LG and her work, I do give her credit for pulling ONE LIFE TO LIVE out of the morass it had become mired in with Paul Rauch. Furthermore, there's no question LG had excellent tastes as a producer. If she had paired up with Nancy Curlee, let's say, or even Harding Lemay -- in other words, someone with previous soap experience who might've explained to her why some of her ideas wouldn't have worked -- there's no telling what she might've done with the show, and with soaps as a whole. Unfortunately, I think her greatest liability was working with a HW whose interest in their show's history was passing, at best.

[EricMontreal22]

I find that slightly unfair--=Malonereportedly spent hours with Agnes Nixon among others and tried to be fair to soaps as well (which is why one of his first stories was the week of flashbacks for Megan)(. Of course he had a learning curve, but... And as brilliand as Lemay's 70s work was, I'm starting to be unvconvinced of his later work... Granted it's hard to tell--he only had brief runs at Doctors and AW again, but all his talkas a consultant (where he was best friends with Jill PF of all people) make me think he was starting to not get soaps.

[DRW50]

Speaking of the Gottlieb era, here are some very powerful scenes I'd never seen before. Another reminder for me of how soulful Chris McKenna's Joey was (especially the scenes where he is holding an unconscious Billy) - something that was lost with the recast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JP4Il2mlA&feature=channel

[Soapsuds]

Ok folks its time to move OLTL to the cancelled thread as well.....Toupsy??....lol

[DRW50]

I know this period is seen as a low point for Viki's character, but I love the way she treats Clint in these scenes. I much prefer this to any relationship between Viki and JvD's version of the character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmBBk2HwDN0&feature=channel

[MissLlanviewPA]

http://www.etonline.com/tv/119589_Fans_Breathe_Life_in_General_Hospital_Cast/index.html

I love Kassie & Kristen. It's so clear how strong their bond is.

And long live the aging slut! Kassie DePaiva--she'll be 51 later this month--I just turned 23 and I hope I look even HALF that good when I'm that age.