Where Has Character Connection Gone On Daytime?

[All My Shadows]

OLTL would sometimes have random scenes between random characters in 2007-2008 that I always enjoyed. A lot of the time, they weren't even related to any stories, just random scenes. One of my favorites was one with Roxy and Markko. I guess the mistake there was that I assumed they were slowly setting the relationships that characters would have with each other (imagine Roxy as somewhat of an overly-protective motherly figure for Markko ), but whatever happened at OLTL, they moved away from doing that kind of stuff.

Of course, I'm all for going back to 30 minutes. Not only that, though, but also keeping the shows more "contained" (not really sure if that's the right word for it). Meaning, not jumping from random story to random story to random story in the course of one episode or even one act. It'd jump from scene to scene, but all of the scenes would be connected to that same story. I don't know, it's hard to explain. An episode of DAYS did it a few years ago.

But I love a long scene. Give me two or three characters talking in a kitchen and a living room for an entire hour and I'm good to go. I loved Erica's intervention on AMC in 2004. The whole episode was one long, long, long scene.

[EricMontreal22]

The intervention was terrific--almost worth seeing SShowgirl Erica for so long.

While I don't quite share your belief in going back to 30 min soaps (I could picture the soaps just focusing even more on the characters they pimp out that we don't like), but I do get what you mean about contained, inter-related scenes. To be fair that more or less wnet out with soaps as they did move to an hour even back in the 70s (Agnes talks about this in All Her Children when she mentions why she will never let AMC go to an hour--go figure lol), but it probably ahs gotten worse.

[Vee]

OLTL started experimenting with quicker, thematic editing between brief scenes and storylines a couple years ago and now they do it constantly - cutting on lines of dialogue or themes that mirror or overlap with one story or another. Sometimes it works, but doing it so often makes it exhausting.

When RC started they did do a lot more character connection across Llanview, and experimented with longer character-driven scenes. Much of that has been cut down to nothing today. I love the old style on Lemay's AW, or Ryan's Hope, or EON. Love it. But I think the demands of the modern soap pacing, and the way the audience has acclimated to it, prevent us from totally going back to the Lemay AW or Marland or 30-minute soap style of long scenes, but I do think we could perhaps see more juxtaposition within the 1-hour show - say, one segment that is one or two long scenes, and then another which is more contemporary in pacing, and then go back and forth.

[EricMontreal22]

Vee, agreed with everything you said. The Lemay style simply wouldn't play--again it doesn't fit modern TV period--not just soaps (I mean we live in a time where even PBS thought Downton Abbey--a quick moving UK show--would be too slow without some minor nip and tucks for Americans).

I do remember when Carlivati first came on (and OLTL in general was such a breath of fresh air after Dena Higley's stories and pacing) and how well many of the transitions were. Like you said, I actually thinkt he quick pace suits modern OLTL--BUT it is exhausting, they now do those quick back and forths in EVERY "act" it seems, which is too much IMHO. (speaking of, thank God AMC has mostly given up those awful flash pans to diff scenes)

[DRW50]

I thought that was as much about seeming too "British".

Even the Lemay style of writing couldn't sustain itself when he was around, and he abandoned it more and more in his last few years at AW. I do think that writers who adapted themselves later on to campier and faster pacing, like the Dobsons, were able to write longer, more perfunctory conversations when they were at GL. That tells me it wouldn't be that difficult for today's NOWNOWNOW writers to adapt. They just can't, or, in the cases of those like Sheffer who hate soaps, they won't.

[DeeeDee]

Y&R used to have really long scenes all the way until Jack Smith took over.

And once LML was HW? The commercials got more airtime then Y&R did.

[EricMontreal22]

PBS said it was both about pacing (Americans expecting a quicker pace--) and about a plot point having to do with inheriting titles and estates--which many have pointed out is explained in the show, and is somethign few modern Brits would know anyway)

I think many current writers CAN write longer scenes (c'mon, if McTavish and her crew can...), it's direction from above telling them not to. You're write about Lemay (though he wasn't helped by moving to 90 mins--and then ironically quickly leaving due to exhaustion)

[Cyberologist]

Add me to this too my biggest gripe is these short few seconds segments with all these characters; I find it irritating e.g.

you get 13 secs then cut to another segment 2 min 30 sec then back to the 13 sec segment for another 1 min then cut back.

its choppy storytelling for me...

I haven't seen many GH kitchens, I almost fell out when Carly and Jax was sitting down having breakfast

in their kitchen a year or so ago...and seeing Sonny's bathroom with him in a chair watching Kate bath. Jason's bedroom

was shown after a decade of just seeing the pink room.

I think a lot of this too is they have so many characters they have to cover this has been cut out. However my preference

is longer scenes that last more than a few seconds here and there...I lose interest I have a short attention span for jumping

around from scene to scene like this...

I agree! Its done wonders for me who like longer segments with them grouped together like this it flows better (for me).

[EricMontreal22]

I could be wrong, but at least in the late 90s it seemed like Days had more commercial interuptions than other soaps for some reason. At least the ABC ones were all 6 "acts" and a prologue (though the prologue was annoying cut for some of the late 90s and early 00s)--I nevr watched Days faithfully but I swear it was more--surely amounting to the same ratio of ads to programming, but in shorter, more acts.

[All My Shadows]

Absolutely. I never really pay attention when/if I watch DAYS now, but back around '03 or so, there would be like two or three minutes between commercial breaks at times. One time I FF'd the commercials and went clear through the next act without noticing it because it was so short.

[DeeeDee]

Exactly.

Not every episode of every soap has to be Ryan's Hope long but they also shouldn't entail constant cutting between multiple stories within individual episodes filled with circular dialogue & faux cliffhangers either.

[EricMontreal22]

And that's the prob--the shorter scenes encourage even more faux cliffhangars--I swear sometimes it seems like OLTL has cliffhangar lines of dialogue after every 30 second little bit.

[Vee]

What I'd like is to see more shows do more Edge Of Night or British-style character-driven special episodes - the "one-hander, two-hander" shows with one or two castmembers, or a particular focus. If you do a big courtroom story, then sure, do like EON did - spend an episode on the prosecution, the defense, whatever. You don't have to do it every day. Make it a special thing.

For example: on OLTL last year, I thought they should've ended the recent Mitch story the only proper way to kill him - have Viki do it, and get away with it. People would tune in if you promoted it by saying Viki is sacrificing her principles and decides she has to take her family's greatest threat down the hard way. Since the early 2000s Mitch has been obsessed with the Lords and specifically, Viki. All his madness goes back to that family.

Remember when they had Viki 'consult' her integrated alters in order to solve the Hope/Chloe baby mystery in 2009? I say take that a step further. You could've had an entire hour devoted to only Erika Slezak, playing opposite herself - Viki inwardly communing with all of Viki's alters, who would of course appear onscreen with her. Together they would debate the pros and cons of Viki doing the unthinkable and killing Mitch herself. Viki would conclude at the end of the hour that she could and would do it.

It would not only be Emmy bait, but a fabulous way to do a character-driven episode while also executing a spectacular gimmick. It's the kind of thing EON did, the kind of thing British soaps still do, so why not do it?

[Paul Raven]

Guiding Light went down that path (kinda) with the Wed Inside the Light eps. It was an interesting concept that wasn't executed well enough. It was done more to save money (fewer actors,sets) than for dramatic purposes.

[Michael]

GL's "Inside the Light" thing was a great idea. I think it derailed when they started eclipsing too much time within the episodes. They handled the news of Ross's death, the funeral, and the aftermath all in one damn episode! That would be fast for a primetime show. You wind up missing too many important beats, and it doesn't feel like the same show because by the next day, everyone's over it.