The Walking Dead: Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Interview with Danai Gurira. Probably some spoiler, although nothing serious in my mind.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/walking-dead-midseason-premiere-danai-gurira-talks-michonnes-softer-side-and-glen-mazzaras-exit.html

[Vee]

So is the mid-season premiere also on Sunday? I'm marathoning a shitload of episodes on my DVR that day because I've only seen up through Season 2. Not sure how many I can mainline in one day, but I thought it was a pointless waste of money to pay for episodes on Amazon between then and now when AMC is showing them for free over the weekend. (Though the commercial breaks are going to take some getting used to)

Edited February 7, 2013 by Vee

[Vee]

Incidentally, about the Season 2 finale - the first half is excellent, up til the campfire at the end, really, but once again, Robert Kirkman comes in to poop on the show with his attempts at "character development" and "dialogue," which all roughly translate to everyone turning into histrionic PMS cases regardless of gender. Out of nowhere, everyone's incredibly offended by Rick opting to not mention what Jenner told him. Is this really the most relevant beef to have at this moment in time, given their circumstances? I don't think so. And yet Carol is suddenly all pissy, because apparently Kirkman is feeling the need to invoke the comic book version of Carol (or really almost any other character in his comic), who's a very different woman than the TV show version. "We don't need him!" When would any of the survivors left alive say that? When? They all care for each other, a lot. If I believe one thing about the second season, I believe that.

My problem is that Kirkman takes a very adolescent view of his characters and his world in terms of what he thinks is 'edgy' and realistic - in those comics, virtually everyone's a cynic, everyone's bitter, everyone's ready to turn on each other. Or they're idiots. When Rick went on the warpath in the comics, as he did in the finale of Season 2, it was justified by the character he was in the comics and the characters everyone else embodied and what they'd been through. These characters, on the show, are different. Their experiences and relationships are fairly unique. I just didn't believe any of that crap in the second half by the fire, with Rick suddenly turning into Napoleon and Carol and everyone being all pissed. It just didn't work for me. It was Kirkman from on high, forcing his viewpoint from the comics into the world of the television show. I can see Rick being at the end of his rope after what he's just been through, but they didn't do enough work in the script. Or rather, Kirkman didn't. But he rarely does.

I'm going to catch up on Season 3 (I buckled and bought "Seed" on Amazon to watch, and may watch a few more before the marathon on Sunday) and then try to stay current with everyone else. I don't know where this show will end up, but I just hope that I'm wrong on my suspicion and that this doesn't end up being, as is rumored, a succession of showrunners fired to continue to fulfill Robert Kirkman's (IMO) deeply flawed mandate which creates a lot of very shallow characters and scenarios.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Vee

[Ann_SS]

The Walking Dead showrunners being fired has nothing to do with Kirkman's vision. He does not have the authority to fire them anyway. AMC is a dysfunctional network that has engaged in a series financial conflicts with the showrunners of all their shows. Showrunners have been fired or have walked away from almost all their shows. As a result, AMC has a horrible reputation in the business and has struggled to get anyone with a decent name to run their shows. The Walking Dead has suffered the most because it is the only show that AMC solely owns.

[Vee]

I thought it was just AMC at first. I've since heard otherwise more than once. At best I think it's both AMC and Kirkman. Glen Mazzara certainly alludes to that in some of his new interviews.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Vee

[DRW50]

I just watched that episode, and I was baffled by her behavior. They'd built up how isolated she felt, but this was a power play, and one which seemed to be done solely to get a reaction, similar to when Lori goaded Rick to kill Shane (only to be horrified when he actually did, perhaps because Carl was involved).

What bothered me with this was that they had a character who could react this way - Patricia. Imagine if Patricia found out that Rick had known that Shane let Otis die. Patricia even led a rebellion against Rick in the comics, didn't she? I get the TV idea of why she had to die - Carol was the "older woman" of the group, and they didn't think they needed another. But why not have them both? Patricia could just die in the season premiere, if it was that necessary. Instead they just let the story of Otis' death end without full resolution.

The scene of Daryl watching the fire (I read a comment that his mother burned up in a fire, and he might have remembered that while seeing the barn burn - Norman Reedus didn't mention anything about that motivation, but I still like it) was incredible. So was the scene when they left the highway and the Sophia message was shown on the car windshield.

Can you believe AMC wanted them to cut the scenes with Daryl on his motorcycle? Do they know their audience at all?

I just loved Hershel in this episode. The guy who plays him is one hell of an actor and he packs so much pathos and dignity into every scene. When I started watching in season 3 he was mostly a C or D level character, but he was such a backbone of season 2.

If they were going to kill Jimmy they should have given at least one scene to make viewers care. There was nothing. Apparently he was originally supposed to die in Dale's death episode, Dale was supposed to find his corpse and then get killed by the same zombie. They should have made me care.

This was also originally supposed to have a scene where Lori spit in Rick's face after she learned about Shane. Someone had the sense to keep that out.

[Vee]

Again, I think the reason they did that with Carol was Kirkman. Virtually every character in his comic is that brittle, vindictive and quick to turn on each other, and the dialogue was as broad and obvious as anything he ever did. The comic Carol was a headcase, and I just - can't with that [!@#$%^&*].

I can't imagine why they would've had Lori do that, but it all sounds like Kirkman to me. I didn't have much of a problem with her reaction to Rick as others - I think she was mostly blaming herself, and I really have few issues with the TV Lori that most people do; I think the character is far more sympathetic and that Sarah Wayne Callies has done a wonderful job.

Scott Wilson (Herschel) was stellar and very idiosyncratic as a younger actor, not only in the legendary film of Truman Capote's In Cold Blood, but also in William Peter Blatty's films of his novels The Ninth Configuration and The Exorcist III: Legion (the only true Exorcist sequel, and a cult hit for years), but he has such dignity as an older man. The whole second season, while certainly flawed, really reminded me of a parable of the Garden of Eden, or a Terrence Malick film. They had it all, and little by little it all went to hell.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Vee

[DRW50]

I think SWC might have improvised the spitting. Andrew Lincoln fought to keep the scene. I do wonder if it might have been Kirkman's idea.

I think Lori was a thinly drawn character, mostly there to cause men to fall apart, but I don't hate her either. I think that perhaps my watching the episodes in a few months, instead of over two years, makes me less upset by her, or by the second season. Many of the issues people had with Lori, like her being a prick tease, or wanting the women to clean and cook, I never quite saw the same way they did. The only one that did was her having people run into town for her, but at least the show had Daryl stop this.

The second season was a little talky and sluggish but most of it worked fine for me. Most of it built believably, piece by piece. The payoff was more than worth it - the premiere and the last 3 episodes of the season ranged from good to superb, and that's tough for most shows to pull off for even one episode. If I had any complaint it would be I wanted more life for Beth, Jimmy, and Patricia, but at least Beth got the suicide episode.

Edited February 8, 2013 by CarlD2

[DRW50]

Random note - Walking Dead was mentioned on Big Bang Theory last night. Sheldon and Leonard had a falling out because Sheldon spoiled Lori's death. For some reason, I can't see Sheldon watching TWD, but that's just about the best free publicity a show could get 3-4 days before their season premiere.

[Vee]

I don't think she was a tease or a brood mare or housewife or whatever. I think that's all fanboys, or people expecting how they would act in their idealized version of a zombie apocalypse versus how real people actually would behave. I thought she was just a human being trying to keep things functioning and struggling with her own mistakes, and I thought SWC always put that across very well. She came off so real, and I was not expecting much, having suffered through comic book Lori for ages. But I've liked her work a lot, along with Laurie Holden's. I really don't care about all the fan rage - I think they do good work, and most of the time I think their characters were/are well-drawn and complicated, even or especially when they're frustrating.

And yes, I liked Season 2 a lot. The Eden parable was more thematic for me, however pretentious that is, not a meta-commentary on the production (though that may yet come to pass).

I've only seen "Seed" so far but Season 3 is pretty exhilarating and quite a change. The group is a very smooth unit now, and I think the time jump was smart (if only for the fact that Chandler Riggs is growing like a weed). I'm not too sure about adding Michonne and the Governor, though. Michonne can be interesting, but at the initial sketch both are very cartoonish, teenage-boy's-fantasy comic book characters - a black ninja lady with katanas and zombies on chains because she's so extreeeeme! A one eyed madman with a tank, or whatever it was the Governor had in the comics! The actress seems good, and I know David Morrissey is great, but Kirkman is a gushing acolyte of Rob Liefeld and the old '90s Image Comics boom and it's always showed. There was a key comment by someone on Deadline a couple days ago ranting about how many more goofy comic book caricatures of Kirkman's fans expected the show to add, like Jesus, the kung fu expert from recent issues. I just can't be bothered with that crap either.

[DRW50]

I think Lori was there in part to bait fans - there were multiple scenes where Glen Mazzarra said that scenes were done with Lori to cause a certain reaction (like the Lady MacBeth scene). I do think that it was way too easy for some fans to get into the worst mindset. I don't believe that she led Shane on. I think that a few times she was polite and friendly when she should have left him totally alone (second season), but that wasn't going to make a difference in his mind, he was probably going to stay and obsess over her and over Carl no matter what.

I don't feel the connection I want to feel to Andrea, mostly because I don't quite believe the toughening-up role she got, which was then regressed with the Governor (I believe it more with Maggie). But I also don't see her as a slut or a bitch or any of that. I think a show with so many macho, swaggering male characters and a show that often reinforced gender roles seems to bring in hardcore misogyny from certain viewers.

The Governor in the comic seems very different to the one on the show. The one on the show is more cerebral and slowly builds into darkness.

Michonne, I like her, but I think there was too much hype around the character and they didn't sell the friendship with Andrea, which makes her actions less meaningful. I think the idea of Michonne is a cool idea, but I'm not completely sure this can be translated onscreen. I become annoyed when I hear people say she's a bitch or say that she should have been the one who got the rape story, as she did in the comics, because she's tough and it wouldn't bother her. When she doesn't have an inner life people are more likely to put their own prejudices onto her.

On the commentary for season 2's finale they said originally they planned to have the group fighting walkers in the woods and they'd make their way into the prison, which would also be overrun by zombies. AMC asked for a more "existensial" ending, which led to Rick's speech, and the shot of the prison in the distance. For once I actually did agree with AMC.

[ChitHappens]

2 days! It has been a long dreadful wait, but our show is finally back, and I can't be happier! Wow! I was thinking about having TWD gathering and we have fun and watch together, but there's no guarantee everyone will be quiet, so no!

2 days!

[Ann_SS]

LOL! Chit, too funny. I have a strict "no talk, no phone, no computer" rule during TWD.

2 days!

[London]

Now did ya'll watch the video clips and interviews yet?!

[Vee]

I'm thinking of buckling and renting another Season 3 episode before Sunday's marathon. We're snowed in here.