October 11-15, 2010

[Gray Bunny]

Remember the good ol' DAYS when every week was a discussion of how Reilly's 2.0 tenure was killing DAYS?

To quote John Black: "And that's a fact!"

[jpoliver78]

For the record, I don't have any feelings towards you - like or dislike.

All soaps - including OLTL - are prone to swings both up and down on a weekly basis. While viewership may have ticked up in the aftermath of the Claywell (Kyle) and Evans (Fish) firings, the viewership dropped to historic low levels after their departure. While that drop could have several factors (OLTL being taken over by the teens), so could those increases after "Kish" left. Did people tune out because of gay characters? Sure, but the question is how many of those who tuned out or tuned in did so in response to "Kish".

Just because OLTL saw an increase after ATWT ended doesn't mean that those are old ATWT viewers. Are some of those 300,000 viewers old ATWT viewers? Probably. Did some of them watch Kim Zimmer on GL? Probably. But it is a stretch to say that most of those are old ATWT or old GL viewers. They could just as easily be those viewers who fled during those low viewership days in the summer.

There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, and I don't begrudge anyone doing so.

Personally speaking, I was one of those viewers who felt that OLTL went overboard with the gay storylines last year; and was frankly turned off by the whole "Dorian is a lesbian" storyline because it felt rather preachy and out of left field. However, I am not a homophobe. I have no problem with gay people or gay characters. However, I can see how OLTL's transformation into "One Gay Life to Live" could have turned people off from the soap. There will always be bigots, racists, and homophobes. And they will also watch television. However, one cannot always assume that when a gay character is introduced and the viewership declines that one is linked to the other.

Also, I don't know if SavingATWT mentioned it or someone else, but the theory that housewives tend to watch soaps more than other people, and housewives tend to be conservative. All but one soap can be viewed on SoapNet (although that cable net will cease operations in 2011/12) and all soaps can be viewed on-line. There are also DVR and TiVo devices that allow people to watch soaps anytime they want. While SoapNet viewers, on-line viewers and DVR/TiVo users may not be counted by Nielsen, the soap audience is made up of more than just conservative (desperate?) housewives.

My only complaint against SavingATWT, as I mentioned in an earlier post is that you don't seem to be able to look at an alternative explanation. For example, those "new" OLTL viewers are just as likely to be old OLTL viewers coming back to the fold now that several major storylines are coming to a head as they are to be old ATWT viewers.

But, please feel free to continue to express yourself.

[Jeff]

I'm glad B&B went up, Stephanie's cancer story deserves it. However, IMO the numbers went up due to bringing in Taylor and Pam, and the rest of the family is involved now. I love this story, but I think the focus has been too much on Brooke.

[Saving ATWT]

Sorry Toups, it connected, sort of, to the issue of gay characters on soaps and ratings. Basically, if homophobes can tank a show's ratings.

[ChiTownBoi03]

LOL. Well whatever. I'm one of the few who enjoyed both his tenures, although the second to a *lesser degree.*

Not too shabby ratings week. Its so odd seeing just six soaps on the roster.

[Bella20]

The problem is that we have no evidence to show that homophobia lead to OLTL's ratings decline. It certainly didn't have an impact on either AMC or ATWT's ratings, as you claimed. And as you said, we can't look at the week to week ratings, so four weeks of increases, especially when people probably had no clue that Kish was gone, really doesn't mean anything.

I also don't understand where you get the figure that OLTL's ratings went up 300,000 viewers after ATWT left the air you said that this would happen, yet the week when ATWT went off the air OLTL drew 2,327,000 viewers, which was down 130,000 from the week before. The next week 2,220,000 viewers, which was a loss of 107,000. the next they only gained 83,000 of those viewers back. Two weeks ago they saw a gain of 256,000, but then last week they once again lost 108,000 viewers, so how does this show a gain of 300,000 viewers? Or, indicate that ATWT viewers are flocking to OLTL?

[Saving ATWT]

Thanks for permission to 'feel free to continue to express' myself. With that said, I'm pleased you 'have no problem with gay people or gay characters' even though OLTL became "One Gay to Live" and the '"Dorian is a lesbian" storyline...felt rather preachy'. Let me guess, you have gay friends, too? It very nice to meet an open-minded str8 guy like yourself

[jams1234]

What in the high hell has the ratings thread turned into??? Let's all climb off our soap boxes, take a chill pill and discuss ...I dunno know the RATINGS.

I'm glad AMC got the little bump in 18-49....they really need it. The 18-49 viewers is crazy...hell they all are. It's shocking to see so little difference separating 3rd & 6th place in so many categories.

Especially in the W18-34 rating.

1. Y&R 0.9/6 (+.1/-.3)

2. GH 0.8/5 (same/-.1)

3. DAYS 0.7/4 (+.1/-.2)

4. AMC 0.6/4 (+.1/-.3)

4. OLTL 0.6/4 (same/-.3)

6. B&B 0.5/3 (same/-.2)

That's a tiny difference between 1st and last place. And it's still so shocking to only see 6 soaps listed.

[Saving ATWT]

I know, right...all these crazy people

I'm shocked that all six shows are basically tied in this demos and so close in all other catagories. Even ATWT, while on air, was pulling similar numbers. I wonder how much lower these numbers can drop before before another show dies. B&B at .5 is so weak and, if trends continue, will only get weaker. You'd think a jobless rate of almost 10% would be helping soaps. When you are broke, lux items like cable/internet would be the first to go, right? I miss having 8 soaps to pick on

[DRW50]

I think Port Charles pretty much destroyed itself with the increasingly poorly written "books" and by segregating the non-white cast members, and destroying Allison/Jamal for the horrendous Allison/Rafe. Passions, I never knew what happened to that show. The last few years seemed to be about how many different ways women could be raped. That and a thrilling story telling us that black gay men hate themselves and will die.

[Money]

Well, I for one found the political debate interesting since the discussion of politics was connected to how the TPTB write their shows and directly affects whether people tune in or out - ratings. Someone on another board said that Daytime caters to 'mainstream' America and I disagreed. The writing in Daytime is a direct reflection of the executives attitudes towards racism, homosexuality and misogyny. There's no other reason to explain why the entire genre for all intents and purposes have never been progressive after fifty+ years. There have been a few spurts of attemptability (that still remains far and in between) when they attempt to showcase real diversity and then it quickly gets canned because the 1950 Hillbillies threaten to run a massacre. Not for one second do I think those Hillbillies are 'mainstream' America however they still get catered to because the regime uses their outrage as an excuse to cater to them when the real problem is that these brasses, while they may not openly share their beliefs, their attitudes are incredibly condescending to minorities - and I do mean ALL minorities. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and gays. A writer once said that the reason he doesn't write for Blacks is because he can not relate. I'm assuming it's because he does not even associate with Blacks on his social level. That answer is simply pathetic and unacceptable in today's society and is also very indicative why the genre has a problem writing for Blacks and any type of diversity when this writer's attitude is the attitude prevalent among 99% of the higher ups. As a result the status quo remains and the genre is dying.

[TeamEric]

Somehow you got my and SaveATWT's posts confused.

Let's get back to discussing ratings FACTS versus each other.

1. Toups pointed out in his Dec 21-25, 2009 ratings report that OLTL set a record low for viewers while the gay characters were featured:

2. Post-Kish OLTL posted increases 4 weeks straight increase in viewership for net +163,000 gain. Of note, that's the only time in 2010 OLTL posted gains 4 weeks in a row (so far). So I see not a shred of evidence, that the Kish departure impacted adversely OLTL viewership.

3. In late June OLTL set another record low in viewership. That fall can hardly be attributed to Kish since it was 3 months later and as I noticed above OLTL gained in the direct Kish aftermath.

It's I who blamed the teens as they were the top airhogs and stories. All the OLTL boards were lit it up with complaints about teens on 24/7 in June. Once OLTL re-focused on adult stories in July, OLTL ratings bounced back.

4. FYI, OLTL average monthly viewership/18-49 demo from March through present:

Mar 2010 2,395,266 716,400 - Kish

Apr 2010 2,326,818 662,800 - Kish aired thru 4/19

May 2010 2,375,000 725,250 - no Kish and OLTL averaged higher viewership and demos.

Jun 2010 2,300,467 665,600

Jul 2010 2,358,524 653,400

Aug 2010 2,273,000 657,250

Sep 2010 2,344,750 675,250

Oct 2010 2,559,000 714,000* thru Oct 15

5. I already had this debate with Jamey on DC, but it bears repeatedly. I don't blame Kish story for OLTL's ratings losses but neither do I see one iota of evidence this so-called viewership backlash over losing Kish.

[TeamEric]

OLTL ratings/demos since ATWT went off the air:

Sep 20-24 2010 6. OLTL 2,220,000 (-107,000/-242,000)

Sep 27-Oct 1 6. OLTL 2,303,000 (+83,000/-162,000)

Oct 4-8 2010 4. OLTL 2,559,000 (+256,000/+157,000)

Oct 11-15 2010 4. OLTL 2,451,000 (-108,000/-116,000)

Net gain +124,000 viewers.

Are they ATWT viewers? Doubtful b/c OLTL spiked up net 144,000 viewers for month of July which I see as proof there's a pool of OLTL ex-viewers who will return and watch if enticed by right story. The latest October gains I think are also a result of ex-viewers tuning back in for climax of the dragged out Eli/Tea saga.

[DRW50]

I think that for many years daytime did sometimes allow itself to take the risk -- it's only in recent years that this has become much more blatant.

I blame the soaps' last burst of huge popularity, with Luke and Laura, and then after that, the increasing homogenization and cynicism and emptiness of these huge conglomerates.

Agnes Nixon managed to get social issue stories on her soaps for decades, from one network to another. AMC had stories for 20 years which blended humor and romance in with serious issues. She also managed to get ABC to integrate AMC in the late 70s and kept it that way for 15 years. AMC might have veered away from that in the early 90s but there were still some attempts, like Julia's rape and her abortion. I think it was really only when Disney took over ABC that their soaps began to openly shun minorities and their soaps also started to look so much alike. AMC, OLTL, and GH had very separate identities for a long time until Disney took over. Frons has just made this even worse.

But even before this, there were soaps which were very serious and talked about bold issues and were then dumbed down by corporate control. People always blame the gorilla for Ryan's Hope falling apart but the real clues are in characters like Siobhan. Before ABC took over production, Siobhan was a unique-looking free spirit who was loved and loathed by her family, who fought rent strikes, teachers' strikes, worked for a family planning clinic. After ABC took over, Siobhan became a Barbie doll. You pull the string on her back and she whines "JOOOE!" She no longer even considered topics like abortion -- her only thought was to whether she could eventually have a child with Joe. They gave her a job on the police force solely because this would bring more drama into Joe's life, not because of anything which made sense for Siobhan's character. Siobhan became this sad sack who had to constantly be "protected" by Jack and by Joe. Then there was Jill, who went from having stories about her independence to stories about falling in love with dying rock stars and opening Egyptian tombs.

ATWT was dismissed as the most conservative soap for many years but even they, under Marland's pen, told many bold stories, far more topical and far-reaching than a lot of what has been on soaps, or primetime TV or cable, since.

I think soaps really did have a progressive bend for longer than they're given credit for, and this was not permanently snuffed out until the mid-90s. And that is what has killed soaps.

[EricMontreal22]

No, I do agree. It's not a cliche that soaps dealt with many issues before the rest of tv did. I think they lost some of their footing there when the talk show/trash show boom occured--and later cable. But even before the infamous Agnes Nixon 70s boom, there was a directness with how they approached taboo issues. When Peyton Place became a massive hit, a few people pointed out that the daytime dramas had already dealt with even more controversial topics.