As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Other than some truly gross choices with characters like Emily (taunting a blind woman - how hot!), I don't think anything they did was as damaging in the long-term as a number of other writers (including Hogan Sheffer) - their problem was just being so out of step with what the show should have been and coming along at a time when the show and the genre were in deep distress. This was also when such badness was still a relative surprise as Marland had only been gone a few years. By the time of the mid '00s it was just another day.

That doesn't surprise me. I wonder what other 'suggestions' he had - I wouldn't be surprised if he was into the sleazy, trashy, soulless stuff, especially Diego/Emily (before he raped her). And the influx of generic young people.

Edited February 25, 2024 by DRW50

[vetsoapfan]

I wouldn't be surprised. Network suits have a habit of championing creative personnel from primetime TV, as if (just by the mere fact that they have worked on primetime television), their work should be good. Jessica Klein, Lynn Latham, Stern & Black, Charles Pratt, Nina Laemmle, Anne Howard Bailey, and a host of other scribes who failed on the soaps, prove otherwise.

[Soaplovers]

I did a rewatch of some of 1996..and it wasn't as bad as I thought.

Lily was written quite well..and I thought there was some strong Hughes family scenes..and a brief revival of Kim vs Susan when it came to Dani.

Part of the problem was a disconnect between the Kasnoffs and the rest of the show.

 

[vetsoapfan]

UGH! Hogan Sheffer really s**t all over the show and its legacy, and did tremendous damage. By comparison, Stern and Black, and even the dreaded Jean Passanante did less harm. Now that we can look back, hindsight tells us that Stern and Black, while bad, could have been worse. They could have been Sheffer or JER or Carlivati bad.

 

[kalbir]

The P&G shows were effectively over in the aftermath of OJ plus CBS on the whole was a mess in that same era. AFAIK As the World Turns didn't enter cancel territory until like 2009. I don't think it was limping along in its final 16 years.

[Mona Kane Croft]

I enjoyed a lot of Sheffer's writing.  He was good at going back and connecting earlier plots to his current storylines, especially during the early part of his tenure.  And he wrote several plots and situations that were unusual for daytime, but still compelling and believable.    But I hated that crazy plot he wrote for Bonnie, when she discovered that her African American mother was actually of Scottish descent (or something like that).  And the Griffin's actually owned a castle in Scotland.  All of that was so unbelievable and unnecessary.  Mostly because Bonnie was already of Scottish descent (through her father), and the McKecknies already owned a castle in Oakdale and a large property with a huge manor-house in Scotland.  The entire storyline was silly and redundant for a character with Bonnie's existing heritage. If Sheffer wanted to explore Bonnie's heritage, he should have brought back Duncan and/or Jessica and written something that seemed authentic.  

I also disliked a lot of what Sheffer wrote for Barbara.  He took her too far off the deep end, almost to the point of being unredeemable.   But Coleen Zenk seemed to love that sort of thing.   

In my opinion, Sheffer needed a co-head writer or a stronger executive producer -- someone who could hold him back a bit.  Much of Sheffer's writing had "good bones", but he lacked self control.  

[vetsoapfan]

I think he showed promise at the beginning of his tenure, when he worked with Carolyn Culliton. Later, when there was nobody to pull in the reigns, he went wild. He downplayed the vets and the Hugheses far too much, and overplayed his favorites. God knows what his beef was with Eileen Fulton, who became like an irrelevant, rarely-seen under-fiver during his reign. I felt there was a mean-spiritedness to his writing, which lacked heart, warmth and family values which were the core of ATWT.

Edited February 25, 2024 by vetsoapfan

[Contessa Donatella]

There are always things that are offered to actors that they love, that fans hate! it come from their having to play the same thing over & over for years. When someone shows up with something "different" the very likely are not going to be thinking about character integrity! 

I know at first he did have a co-HW. Did that change? 

Recently someone was talking about writing for Sheffer & winning the Emmy as part of the ATWT team & how joyful that experience was. And she said that since he came from outside soaps he didn't know what he couldn't do so he did a lot of things that no one else would have. 

I think of his solution for having 3 lead actresses all pregnant at the same time. Held them hostage in a spa & they were enveloped in enormous fluffy white terry robes! I sorta thought it was brilliant. 

Another friend was a writer on that team & whenever he speaks about "Hogie" it is with the same kind of joy, admiration, etc. One thing we do know is that he ran a Happy Writers' Room & took care of his people. 

All that said, he would never be my first choice to write relationships between men & women. 

[DRW50]

It was when we got scenes like Julia punching Jack and killing a horse, and all of Craig's sneering (which we were always meant to find hilarious and true) that I truly did feel like the canvas became repulsive in ways that were difficult to get past. There was indeed a mean-spirited, callous nature that was exalted at every turn, a sociopathic tint that was so typical of that era of pop culture and infested onto daytime by people who hated or misunderstood the genre. 

ATWT always had a steely side, and there were certainly patches of ugliness before Sheffer (like the Diego stuff or that David/Reid fiasco), but nothing to that level which seemed to consume the entire canvas. I felt dirty even trying to watch. If the James return/Margo miscarriage story had happened in that era, we would have had James pop into her room to laugh at her and call her barren, as we were invited to clap our hands in glee.

[Contessa Donatella]

Both Julias being played by brilliant actresses & wonder if he couldn't have done much better by each of them. And, Hunt Block is an excellent caliber, but without boundaries he becomes aloof, or defensive

 

[vetsoapfan]

Perfectly said. When ATWT was number one in the ratings for its first two decades, and when it commanded fierce and unwavering fan devotion, a sense of community, warmth, humanity, family values and decency were the cornerstones of the show. When all those "old-fashioned" tenants were wiped out in favor of harsh, mean-spirited and callous shenanigans, the show was in deep, deep trouble. None of the modern era's PTB knew how to fix it, and I daresay most of them didn't care to return Oakdale to its roots. The soap just got worse and worse.

Jack Snyder's sexual abuse by Julia came across (to me) in a sniggering way, which I found offensive. It was like the audience was supposed to find some truly ugly events amusing (wink, wink), and they just weren't.

The uglier the events on screen became, the less  ATWT resembled...ATWT.

[DRW50]

I'll never forget seeing those scenes praised in soap magazines for their great comedy element. That was when I truly knew how much the bottom had fallen out on those publications. 

[vetsoapfan]

The soap press died a long, slow and brutal death; much like the soaps themselves.

I get sh*t for saying this from stans who insist that I must praise the soaps to the heavens at all times, to convince TPTB to keep them on the air, but honestly? With little-to-no hope of the genre ever healing, I wouldn't be too crushed if the remaining four shows were laid to rest. Put them out of their misery. 

[DRW50]

If fawning and dishonest soap press kept soaps on the air, OLTL might still be here. I really wish life worked that way. 

Logically I know that nothing was probably going to keep the soaps on the air, and it was a miracle most of them lasted as long as they did, but I'll still always wonder if ATWT (as it's the topic, sorry to go off course) and others might still be here if they had been run with any level of care by greedy, soulless networks who never understood that the time the genre made them the most money was when they had the least involvement in the product.

I'm glad some soaps are still on and I hope there will always be soaps on but it's always a tough moment to remember that something made in 1950 through a radio so often feels more relevant to today than soap product made in 2024.

Edited February 25, 2024 by DRW50

[Contessa Donatella]

Do any of you recall that MSM interview that came out right before he he began? 

Although there is at least some evidence of the networks meddling in the affairs of, then, soap writers! 

That was so surreal. I felt like the emperor was naked in front of me.