Jean Passanante

[Khan]

It might've, if they had actually tried it, and not been so half-assed about it.

AS THE WORLD TURNS was never that sentimental, lol. In its best days, however, it was far more comforting and entertaining than the dark, nasty show it was at the end.

Only one thing killed ATWT, and that was bad storytelling that threw character motivation and history out the proverbial window.

Given how badly all the soaps are doing in the key demos these days, I don't know if that argument even works anymore.

I want(ed) my shows to live, too, but never at the expense of what made them important to me in the first damn place. "Colder story"? If you're truly paying attention to character, then how or why should the tone of the stories matter? Times may change; human behavior doesn't.

Marland dealt with dark, often controversial topics in his stories, but always with an underlying message of hope. How is that ramming morality down our throats? And if it truly is, then what's so wrong with trying to educate and enlighten as well as entertain?

You wanna talk ramming morality down viewers' throats? Two words: Michael. Malone.

Which is probably antithetical to the nature of soaps. People don't (or didn't) watch their "stories" with the idea that nothing would turn out right for anyone, ever.

[Khan]

Cable TV.

[DRW50]

The problem with ATWT was constantly fixing the parts that were not broken. Clearly someone felt the show was too much about complicated relationships and family and history, and they kept moving away from that, which meant bringing in one set of awful characters after another (pretty much every regime starting with Black and Stern had them -- with scene killers like Zoe or Eddie Man or Julia sucking up airtime no wonder the ratings went down), one tedious and half-a$$ed "umbrella" story (which often translated to "let's make this up as we go along") after another. The real core of the show was its biggest asset and you could see that even in the last months, you could see those gems like Bob and Kim getting remarried, buried under flops like Janet and her Juices.

I can see your point, but then, wasn't she hand in hand with Hogan most of the time he was headwriter? They have more in common than they do any differences. They even both told offensive storylines about horrible people getting heart transplants while their families acted like wolves at the door.

[P.J.]

I don't think Hogan understood how to connect emotionally with the audience. That's why his first year co-writing with Culliton was so much better---she knew how to play those emotional beats, even if Goutman cut the heart out of them by focusing on dark humor and farce. That's ultimately where Pissy fails too---so unless you have HUGE moments with the best actors, they fall flatter than pancakes. Block being unable to cry over Bryant's death being a prime example.

I don't think Goutman doesn't know how to do it---I think he decided the audience "lost interest" in any fallout, and therefore sped over it to the next story, instead of using the fallout to develop the next story.

And I don't think Hogan understood how to springboard from one story to another either. He basically wrote independent arcs and called it "continuing drama". It works in primetime and the movies, but not daytime.

I understand the criticism that Marland got "preachy" or moralistic, but in the late '80's every show made an effort to "say something important" to the audience. At least Marland had something to say. I never got that impression from Hogan, unless it was a big "F-U, at least our men have big dicks now".

Hogan couldn't write "endings" period. "Happy" was the least of his problems. People would just disappear, questions were left unanswered and we were all supposed to accept that and move on. You can't hope to entice the audience to GAS about characters and story and then just CHEAT them like that. It was made even more frustrating because he could set up a good beginning to story. He just got lost in the details (giving his pets pithy one-liners up the wazhoo) and then realize "F-me, this story needs to wrap up because of X (someone's contract is up), Y (this sucks) or Z (I don't trust the audience to keep paying attention).

[EricMontreal22]

*Even Michael Malone*? Even when he's writing a mess--like his last OLTL stunt, I think he gives great interviews.

But yes. Having read her ATWT interviews the past year, and the fact that she wrote my least fave era at AMC ever (which is REALLY saying something), I think you're spot on about Passanante. The only point of interest in her interviews is perhaps how damn defensive she is.

[EricMontreal22]

She never penned OLTL solo did she? I think where she built her name was as the breakdown writer to Malone and Griffith's much loved initial OLTL run (which of course petered out in '96 when Griffith left). So maybe she truly is very good as a breakdown writer--but I dunno how she's coasted this long. I literally was beyond shocked when I heard she went to ATWT (after of course being a breakdown writer there with Hogan who I belioeve hired her himself). It was particularly weird cuz I thought Jean would have some hate on her--she left AMC in the Summer of '01 (I believe) amongst rumours she was about to be fired, and left them with abotu 3 months of no headwriter, breaking her contract, till they finally got Culliton.

I have to agreem while people always talk up their soaps, understandably, the way Y&R does this is genuinely tacky (I guess GH is the only soap to come close to talking that way)

[Saving ATWT]

I've always had the feeling that Hogan and Goutman had a lot more say than Passanante from statements given in interviews and by comments made in the soap press. For me, anything was an improvement over Brodrick with Eddy Silva and Georgia mixed with Reid Hamilton stealing Lill's baby. Firstly, since Goutman developed the new production model and, up till the final episode, did more and more with 'prime time jumps,' it has always been my feeling that it was he who left stories unfinished and characters MIA. Example, when Peyton List quit as Lucy, it was not the writers job but Goutman's task to recast the character so that story could continue. Certainly, it was a writer who came up with her on the run with Johnny but they had to place the two characters somewhere if the EP was unwilling to do a simple recast. The same is true for all of the other MIA characters including Jade and Derik. When Qwen and Will were let go, Landon blamed Goutman and it was a budget cut. Because of the extreme role Goutman took over all elements on the show, it is pretty hard to blame either Hogan or Passante for the many sloppy endings. Chris Goutman was way too keen to make ATWT a primetime-lite show.

The tone of ATWT got much worse after Hogan left. I found the Kin and Bob get remarried story at worst pathetic and at best silly. The idea that Bob and Kim ended up with a scam minister in the 1980's was dumb. Both characters, plus Nancy and Chris, knew the entire town and were certainly friends with a minister or judge. Also, watching Kim 'decide' was way out of character. If this is 'writing from the heart,' I'd hate to see what else heartfelt sentiment Passanante had in store if the show had been renewed.

Hogan isn't doing prime time jumps on Y&R and most of the storylines get tied up neatly. The Lauren double mess was a total mess but no one knows who writes what story on that show. My point is that Hogan seems to have a lot more skill than Passanante with his stories being fresher and generally more interesting. With that said, I don't think either writer could put a show together alone. We saw two seasons of Passasante alone and it was a disaster. My guess is that Lucky Gold probably was hired as co HW 'cause neither Jean nor Chris could finish series alone.

[EricMontreal22]

I'm no big Hogan fan by any means, but I'll agree with the statement that Hogan has a LOT more skill (and just natural talent) than Passanante, with absolutely no argument. Then again--those are pretty low standards...

[DRW50]

I don't mean to be snotty, just wondered if you've watched any of Y&R under his pen. The man told a story where a woman was murdered and buried in bits under the stables, then was revealed as being molested by her OBGYN in college, who also molested other women, then a year and a half later was suddenly revealed to actually be alive and faking her death all along as part of some evil plot, then revealed that she had actually faked all the stuff about being molested by her OBGYN. It was just obscene, and probably only tacked on because the show had casually introduced him when Skye was "dead" because her ex Adam needed him to examine an unconscious Ashley after a miscarriage she didn't know she'd had. So he blackmailed this doctor who molested patients into coming into Ashley's home, touching her, and lying to her that her baby was still alive. Then months later they went to Harvard and got proof he was a molester. Then...oops...turns out none of that was true after all.

That's just one of the many very poorly written, sick pieces of detritus Hogan has inflicted on Y&R.

[EricMontreal22]

You're not being snotty. I tune into Y&R maybe once every week lately, when I'm home on Fridays--but I barely have paid attention as of late. Still do we know which stories he's doing and which Bell, etc, are doing? (I admit that kinda story does sound more like him). (I did catch some of that story but missed most of the truly offensive and WTF moments as you describe)

Nevertheless, I think you misread me a bit. I think Hogan has more natural talent and is less likely to seem so asleep at the wheel and uninspired with soap cliches as Passanante. That's all. I don't think Hogan is good for soaps as a writer--as much of a contradiction as that may be--I think his snobbery against the genre can cause probs and I don't like how mean spirited his work can be. But STILL I think he has more *talent* (which isn't the same as taste ). I just think Passanante has none.

[DRW50]

I tend to see them both as stuck in their own ruts, and their own issues. For instance, JP loved Janet Ciccione, so she wrote heavily for her, and often made her unwatchable, as Hogan does for his pets, like Craig on ATWT, or now, Billy on Y&R.

I think Hogan might be better off writing for cheap TV movies on cable channels. JP, I don't know. You've said she was good when she worked under Malone at OLTL.

[EricMontreal22]

Right, when she had very little actual input in original stories but worked more on breaking them down. So maybe she could go back to that position but I guess it would depend who she was working for (is she ever going to move up to official co-HW at OLTL or remain lower in the rungs?)

So perfect with your Hogan fit.

[P.J.]

That's 'cause the Bells control Y&R. P&G was a bunch of suits, none of whom personally cared about a show like the Bells do. Whether Goutman/Sheffer came up with the idea of prime-time cuts or not, Sheffer didn't think there was value in showing the transition from "I need to talk to X" and showing up at X's door. Granted, there's not always a significance, but it ends up taking away from the "reality" when the Star Trek transporter beams someone across town and back while another character convo takes up the entire show.