Jacklyn Zeman Interview, Discussing Ageism, Lack of Airtime, Etc.

[Mr. Vixen]

I was stumbling around looking at things, and I came around this 5 part interview with Jackie Zeman. PART THREE of the interview is what caught my eye the most, as she talks about being backburned and ageism at the hands if Jill Phelps.

The Jacklyn Zeman Interview, Part Three

Monday, October 26, 2009 Posted by Damon L. Jacobs

In Part One of my interview with longtime GENERAL HOSPITAL star Jacklyn Zeman, the actress shared reflections on her early career and Bobbie Spencer’s backstory before coming to Port Charles. In Part Two, she looked back on two groundbreaking storylines, how Bobbie Spencer helped women [and men], and her process of portraying grief after B.J.’s death. In Part Three, Zeman shares her experience of being back-burnered on GENERAL HOSPITAL, coping with ageism on the show, and discusses the power of transformation and change in her life.

We Love Soaps: For many years Bobbie was at the center of so many problems, overcoming so many obstacles, inspiring millions of people to get through the obstacles in their own lives. Then at one point...nothing. She kind of faded into the back ground.

Jackie Zeman: Yeah.

We Love Soaps: Tell me what that was like for you.

Jackie Zeman: I guess it just came to an end. I don’t know why. It’s not like anyone ever sat me down and said, “Okay, we’re done with your story.” It happened when Jill Farren Phelps came on as a producer. She wasn’t interested in the character. She wanted to have other characters come on and fill that place and as a producer that is her prerogative. I certainly had a good run as Bobbie. I have nothing to feel bad about or complain about. It was a long, fabulous time.

Since I don't watch the show anymore I don’t know what is there without that element, if the relationships between mature characters are even being pursued on the show. I would tend to say no because from what I hear from others is that they don’t want to go there. I saw the writing on the wall. I remember one day a scene was written, Kin [shriner] and I were in a scene and it was written we would kiss at the end of the scene. It was a public kiss, we were in a restaurant or somewhere, it wasn’t an in-bed love scene. I remember Jill saying to the director, “Take the camera off them.” She was standing only a few feet away. We asked "why" when it had been written in the script. “Our audience doesn’t want to see old people kissing,” that’s what she said.

Continue reading...

We Love Soaps: How did that feel to hear that?

Jackie Zeman: We were in our 40s at the time. That didn’t feel old. It didn’t affect me personally but I felt like, “No you’re wrong, they do.” Just because you turn 40 or 45-years-old doesn’t mean you’re not capable of having a romantic relationship. It doesn’t mean you’re not capable of having loving sexual feelings for another person. I felt it was a mistake. I still do. I believe the audience does want to see that because it’s real.

We Love Soaps: How do you not take that personally?

Jackie Zeman: It was the character, it was the story, it was the show. It wasn’t personal to me or to Kin. It’s just not where she wanted to go.

We Love Soaps: Of course the irony of all this is that YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, which has been #1 in the ratings for over 20 years, and is always #1 or #2 in the coveted demographics, featured a front burner story involving two people over 80-years-old kissing. The character of Kay Chancellor [Jeanne Cooper] went off and had amnesia and met a guy and fell in love. It was a very beautifully told love story between two older adults that involved kissing and a lot of affection. And this was hugely popular with fans of all ages.

Jackie Zeman: I think that’s true especially now, as people are living longer, people are living well into their 80s and 90s. You don’t want to think that in your 40s your life is over romantically or sexually. That’s kind of silly. But there are other shows to watch to find that.

We Love Soaps: Certainly BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL, which is #2 in the ratings, always has people over 40 kissing and love stories. But I admire the way you can say that hearing that comment, and the diminished airtime for Bobbie, did not feel personal.

Jackie Zeman: I’m a very positive person. I believe that when one door closes another door opens. I know everyone has heard that saying. But the new door doesn’t open if you’re holding on to what you were doing in the past. And so I’ve never lived my life like that. A lot of people associate me with GENERAL HOSPITAL because I’ve been on it so long. But I always feel that what’s happening right now is best. And that what there is in the future is going to be more important than what happened in the past.

You’d like to think of your life as building blocks. We grow, we change, we learn, and you bring all the wisdom and experience from the productive things that you have done from the past, you bring them into the present and the future. I just believe that, I’ve believed that from the time I was little. Scenes come and go, soap operas come and go, storylines change. I can’t let that affect me emotionally as a person or as an actress. It’s not personal. It’s just business and it’s something I have no control over so why would I choose to be unhappy?

We Love Soaps: I love that! But what you can control, as you said, is to open another door when one closes. When you went off contract in 2007, you opened new vistas. Tell me about them.

Jackie Zeman: Life is good. I’m still living in Malibu. I moved into a new home after Cassidy and Lacey’s dad and I got divorced two and a half years ago. I got involved with designing jewelry which I love. It’s creative, it’s interesting, I enjoy it. I do some radio shows. I do an internet radio show now called “Sex Drive” with Dr. Ava Cadell. It’s really Ava’s show, I’m the co-host. It’s so fun!

We Love Soaps: I have to say, I checked it out last night. I think it’s wonderful, but I was surprised how much you were willing to share of yourself and your thoughts and fantasies.

Jackie Zeman: And last night was pretty tame. I’m also getting my certification as a Life Coach. All of the information is really interesting to me. It’s not work to read it, I’m like a sponge when I’m learning things. When I got divorced from Cassidy and Lacey’s dad I immediately started reading books and going to workshops and seminars and learning about relationships. Now having had my children, the goals and priorities are changed in regard to what I’m looking for in a relationship. So I needed to learn what that is, what that means, and to learn how to do it because I didn’t know! [Laughs] It’s been a journey. I feel happy.

We Love Soaps: You look happy, you look at peace.

Jackie Zeman: Yes. And it’s not to say that things are perfect. There’s always stuff. But I like my life. I like the fact that there are choices I have now that are different from the choices I had ten or fifteen years ago. That’s where growth comes. It’s pretty darn good right now. I stay busy, I get offers here and there to do acting projects, which keeps my foot in the door, which I like. I like to be busy. People say, “How much do you work?” I work everyday. I’m toying with the idea of writing a book. But I’m busy designing [jewelry] or prepping for the show. I’ve always been someone who wants to keep busy and stay active. I still work a lot with The Gabriel Project, where we bring kids over from Tanzania to America for life saving heart surgery.

We Love Soaps: I spoke with Tina Sloan recently [ex-Lillian on GUIDING LIGHT]. She had a role that was diminished after the 1980s, essentially being reduced to hanging Christmas decorations and taking people’s temperatures in hospital scenes. She told me about her one woman show, “Changing Shoes,” and how she may never have been propelled to create that if she had not had setbacks as an actress.

Jackie Zeman: That makes so much sense to me. Because the key to a happy productive life is transformation. The ultimate goal is transformation. You’ve got to have clarity and get in touch with what it is that you are interested in, and move toward it. If you can’t identify your needs and your desires then you’ll never get there. As you know from your business, a lot of people never take the time to sit down to think about what they want, much less ask for it. Sometimes you need to say, “I need to have to courage to go in that direction that is unexplored.” That’s where life becomes an adventure. That’s where you learn the most.

I told my daughter the other night at the dinner table, "There will always be people who want to lead, to try something new, the entrepreneurs. Then there’s the person who follows directions but has lots of power, like a CEO. Then there’s the person who goes to work for a company, and they don’t want to be out changing and planning but they want to have a job and go to work. They want to do a good job and then go home at night and turn it off." Those are three different ways of moving through life, with three different responsibilities.

We Love Soaps: Which one of these do you see yourself as?

Jackie Zeman: Now, in the last ten years, I’ve become the one who wants to try something new. When I was raising my children, and one of the reasons I stayed on GENERAL HOSPITAL for as long as I did, was because I was in the middle. I liked the predictability of it. I liked the security of it. It’s a great mom job. I never called in sick, I always knew my lines, I was never late for the set ever, not in the 35 years I was on that network. I’m proud of that. But I wasn’t looking to go out and shake it up. I had enough creative fulfillment with my children and my personal life. Now Lacey is graduating high school in June, Cassidy is already in college. I can now, in the next nine or ten months, make decisions about my life, my income, my future, my sexuality, my romantic life, my friends, where I want to live, based on what I want to do, not what I need to deliver to be a good mother to my children, or to be a good wife to my former husband. I said, “Okay, I’m that person now. Now I have all this ability and all this power, what am I going to do with it?” It’s a great time

Here's the link to PART THREE Jacklyn Zeman Interview Part Three

Here is the link to the page where you can access the other parts of the interview. Just scroll down, and it will say something like WLS Archive Jackie Zeman Interview, and it will link you to the other parts. Jacklyn Zeman Interview (Parts 1, 2, 4, 5)

I thought the interview was very well done, and I liked hearing what Jackie had to say about being shoved to the background due to ageism. I admire her positivity, and think it's a shame that she is so wasted.

Sorry if this has been posted before, it's from October 2009 and i didn't see it anywhere.

Thoughts?

[Khan]

I'll say for JZ what I said once for Julia Barr (ex-Brooke, AMC): if the show feels their story is "done," that's fine. Do the fans a favor, though, and give them a proper exit. Don't just let the character, especially one who has been a fixture in people's lives like Bobbie Spencer, fade away, never giving them a second thought.

[Mr. Vixen]

I agree. As sad as it would be for me, I would rather have GH write a big exit story for Bobbie involving Carly, Luke, Lucas, Lucky, Lulu, Monica, etc. that really ecnompasses all her time on the show and gives a proper sendoff for her, then just have everyone forget about her.

[RomeAt50]

JFP thought 40 somethings are old people? What was she smoking? And its pretty hypocritical since she is still allowing them to present late 40 something Maurice Bernard as sexy.

[dragonflies]

Really JFP, did you poll the audience? I know plenty of people who PREFER the older romances on soaps compared to the tween/teen romances/20 something romances

[DRW50]

I just wish that JFP could have this view about Tony Geary...

[Mr. Vixen]

+1

[Cheap21]

correction, 40 year old women. They got rid of Felicia bc they viewed her as a matriarch. Thats usually a term reserved for the much older folk like 60+. GH is very misognistic and male oriented

[Jikk77]

Hate to be mean, but when she is on i can see why they no longer use her

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Not to mention, her acting got progressively worse when she started to f.uck up her face with all that surgery...

I do agree though, least of all, they should just give her a proper exit. I too liked Bobbie at her peak, but no longer see much use for her other than in a supporting role.

[EastMA2]

What Jackie Zeman has done to her face has not helped her cause at all. Why did she hack herself up like that?

[Khan]

Years ago, I read in Michael Logan's TV Guide column how Carl and Rachel were ANOTHER WORLD's number-one couple among the target demos. Carl. And Rachel.

I'm just saying.

[quartermainefan]

What they did with JZ was the greatest wrong committed. And their ageist thinking did not stop them from showcasing the older Nancy Lee Grahn (a poor substitute in my opinion). The Bobbie character is the type all soaps need, a perpetually miserable put upon character who never knows happiness for more than a moment before new tragedy strikes. This is like Krystle on Dynasty sort of, you want this type of character because they also make the villains better since they have someone to torture.

Then they stopped and the show has suffered greatly. You take away the Bobbies from soaps and you ruin all the villains who now have no platform to perform their cruelty. From Carly to Damian Smith to Lucy Coe to Brock and probably some I am forgetting, Bobbie gave so many characters a vehicle to shine. And JZ was one of the best criers once upon a time. Then, from a meta standpoint, I wonder if they did not do this to her whether she would have not felt the need to destroy her face.

[KMan101]

Jill Phelps has never liked older characters. She got rid of everyone over 50 on Another World (The Another World Homepage has a WONDERFUL work of art that shows just what kind of producer JFP is). She killed off Maureen Bauer (hello, a matriarch) and I don't believe her writers ever wrote for anyone over 40, but I didn't watch GL then. OLTL was more or less the same. She practically shoved Robin Strasser out the door. She helped butcher Bo and Nora. I'm shocked she let McTavish write for who she did. I think OLTL was mostly left alone and wasn't JFP when Viki fell for Ben, but that probably only happened because she liked Erika Slezak (I'm just assuming this) and she wanted her for Mark Derwin, a FOJ. Phelps is very very picky.

[KMan101]

From "The Another World Homepage"

THE TOP TEN REASONS TO DESPISE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JILL FARREN PHELPS

(1) The Lack of Romance

* Joe and Paulina were rushed into their first wedding five months after their first meeting. That Paulina would get married so soon after Jake's presumed death is bad enough, but to someone she hardly knows makes it worse. Their wedding in March was one of the most unromantic ones I've seen (that made pretensions of being romantic). During the most tender part of their vows, the camera's focus was on Jake and his reaction.

* John and Felicia were never given the chance to fall slowly in love. Inside of a few weeks, they loved each other completely and totally.

* Without showing any previous romantic interest in Donna, Michael one day decided he wanted sex from her (then decided he didn't want her after all). Shortly afterwards, they would both settle into de facto couplehood without any effort (or romance).

* Michael and Sharlene slept together without any romantic prelude whatsoever. Their relationship till then had been based purely on friendship.

* That Matthew would truly fall in love with Blair is insulting to all soap couples everywhere and doesn't even deserve further mention here.

* Gary and Josie's early relationship was nothing more than endless boinking.

* Morgan asked Courtney to move in with him to help protect her from Andrew, even though there was only one bed in his apartment. After a couple of days they were sleeping together, despite the facts that Courtney was an abuse victim and that they hadn't even gone on a date yet.

* Nick and Sofia decided to get married, not out of love, but because they needed it to legitimize the sex they wanted to have.

(2) The Increase in Violence

* There were innumerable shootings (Joe, Ryan, Ari, Josie, Blair, Fax) as well as well other forms of violent death (Andrew, Justine, Courtney )

* There were two *consecutive* full-fledged serial killer storylines in 1996, each complete with multiple killings and a falsely accused suspect (Morgan/Donna).

(3) The New Sets

* JFP spent a million dollars on her personal vision of what she wanted the show to be like, not what the show needed. While the Center Street sets might have been perfect for a brand new soap, AW was forced to completely redefine itself and its focus. No longer character-driven, the show became a vehicle for an endless string of crime and medical emergencies. The hospital and police station began to dictate overall plot as well as minor details. Every other week another character would occupy the revolving hospital bed or jail cell.

* All the Hudsons except Vicky in jail and in the E.R.... Listing all the characters who spent time in hospital or incarcerated would be take up too much space. Suffice it to say that the overkill completely deadened the excitement such scenes might otherwise provoke.

* Characters would find jobs at these sets despite their lack of qualifications. Michael became chairman of the board at BCGH without any previous hospital experience (except as a patient of course). Sharlene became Rita Madison's personal assistant despite no previous experience (and even though she turned down a job at the police station for similar reasons).

* Surgery scenes featured thousands of dollars worth of fancy equipment that presumably was meant to impress viewers. Each one should have a tag showing which actor had to be fired to be able to afford it. The Tucci gizmo must be quite impressive.

* The hospital has more than one floor even though they all look *exactly* the same. The police station has adjoining rooms and an entire first floor that are wasted space. How much better if the Cory mansion or Bay View Court, for example, had been treated to an expansion.

* The hospital set is constantly used as a backdrop for run-ins, even between characters who have no ties to the hospital.

* Though many do not remember, and some might disagree, the old hospital set was more attractive, with dark blue trim and wood paneling, as opposed to the stark white walls of the current set. The police station set doesn't work as the outside makes it look like something out of the 1950s, yet the inside is straight out of the 90s. The old police station had more character, and its small size prevented the show from focusing too much attention on police matters.

* JFP had this to offer as her rationale for the new sets: "When I first started watching the show about six months ago I had a hard time understanding who was related to whom and who was married to whom. It became obvious that to make the show more viewer-friendly, we needed to create an area where a lot of characters could interact. We have three prominent sets, and within each set there will be lots of little sets. One will be the hospital, one will be the police department, one will be Carlino's restaurant, and in the midst of that, there will be a neighborhood. I like to think of it as ER meets NYPD Blue and Cheers."

(4) The Rewriting of History and Characterization

* Lorna would marvel that such a good man as Gabe McNamara would actually love her, when a host of good men (Matthew, Kevin, and Victor) had loved her and were devoted to her.

* John transferred his feelings for Sharlene onto Felicia without sufficient reason.

* Felicia became desperate and man-hungry.

* Joe went from a sweet caring guy to this manipulative, double-standard holding, overbearing bully.

* Carl began to be condescending to Rachel. He patronized her and trotted her out only when he wanted sex.

* Rachel lost her drive and strength, gosh darn it.

* Paulina lost interest in Jake, the love of her life, because...???

* Vicky sold her house, in which she had lived with Ryan, and where both her kids grew up, without a second thought or a single tear.

* Maggie went from being a sweet kid (mostly) to hell on wheels.

* Michael and John became walking hard-ons.

* Donna regressed from sophisticated businesswoman to sex-starved ditz.

(5) The Focus on Minor Characters

* Established characters would receive new partners, but then third-party interference would originate from those new people, instead of drawing it from the established history of the established characters, making it hard to care about what was happening. Past ties to other characters were invented (e.g., Carl and Blair), and current ties were exaggerated (Matthew and Blair), all for the sake of establishing characters that would only be around for a few months.

* Laurie Michaels sued the hospital when her son died. Were we supposed to care about Ben Michaels? Were we supposed to be interested in the legal battle, when Cass took on the case of a stranger against his own brother, and the real guilty party, Courtney (who had purposely neglected to stop Ben from misusing his inhaler), received no punishment?

* Blair, a stranger, dominated the Gary/Josie story, often to the exclusion of Josie, when featuring familiar elements of Josie's past (Ian, Matthew, etc.) would have been more interesting to the viewer.

* Andrew Miller, a stranger, dominated the Morgan/Courtney story, often to the exclusion of Morgan, when featuring familiar elements of Morgan's past (Brett, Lorna, his mother) would have been more interesting to the viewer.

* Cindy, a stranger, dominated the Gabe/Lorna story, when featuring familiar elements of Lorna's past (Carl, Matthew, Kevin, Victor) would have been more interesting to the viewers. Does Gabe even know that Lorna used to be Carl's moll?

(6) The Ageism

* JFP eliminated multigenerational stories by firing all the actors over 55: Bridget (a beloved 11-year vet), Clara (shamelessly carted off to the old folks home), Spencer (even though he was an integral part of the Justine, then the Ryan/Grant story) and Eddie (thus reducing Joe to the role of heavy in the Nick/Sofia story).

(7) The Sexism

* Donna became the depraved older woman desperately pursuing Matthew, and took to uttering such inanities as "I always need a strong man to help me out."

* Felicia took to sitting in darkened rooms crying to herself because she felt that no one loved her (despite the fact that Marshall threw himself at her and told her how beautiful she was every single time he saw her). Then her whole life revolved around worshiping John.

* Lorna and Felicia would devote their mother-daughter get-togethers to gushing about how wonderful their men were and how lucky they were to be loved by them.

* John received little or no flak for his treatment of Sharlene, while Felicia, the one who showed signs of remorse, became the town pariah.

* Sharlene was deemed a failure as a woman because she had chosen to be a stay-at-home wife and mother.

* Paulina completely lost her backbone as she settled down and became Joe's little woman.

* Rachel became a mindless zombie with no purpose in life.

* Courtney was the classic abuse victim who needed a man to come to her rescue. When Courtney started showing signs of having a backbone, she was killed off.

(8) The Bad Writing

* Dangling plotlines such as: Joe's gambling, and his vow to repay Nick the money Nick gave him to pay off the debt on Carlinos's. Grant's attempted murder of Carl in the hospital. Tomas receiving no punishment for cheating on his EMT exam. The first time that Maggie and Cass met after they both found out they were related was never shown. It was never discovered that Maggie planted Sofia's photo in The Herald or that she faked her death. Felicia's screenplay that was to be filmed at BCGH. The Grant/Morgan confrontation in prison. The Bayside Park rapist. Sharlene's 60's emblem.

* A string of very forgettable stories: Joe and Paulina; Laurie Michaels, Andrew Miller, Fax Newman

* Stories recycled within the same period: Gary and Josie's leaving the force; John and Morgan's suspension from the hospital. Gary and Grace, and Gary and Blair.

* Overall stupidity, such as was apparent throughout the stalker storyline. Fibers found on all three victims matched, when Fax never touched Blair or Courtney?

* Hand-held cameras and constant E.R. scenes were used to create excitement, instead of conflict and drama.

* Vampires yet! There's nothing inherently juvenile about vampire stories; Anne Rice has crafted very complex, character-driven, and philosophical stories. AW's foray into that field was incredibly hokey, from the dialogue right down to the wardrobe.

* The cops were all made out to be complete idiots. The only time Gary showed any brains was when he was on suspension.

(9) Bad Hands-on Producing

* JFP hired possibly the worst actor the show has ever had, Jodi O'Keefe, and subjected her to us for five full months.

* Many recasts: Gregory, Courtney, Nick, Steven, Kirkland, Charlie, Nick, Maggie

* Overusing her personal favorites and underusing the rest. Tom Eplin, one of the most popular players on the show, languished on the backburner from fall 1995 to summer 1996 (when Jensen Buchanan, one of JFP's faves, returned from maternity leave). Never in his ten-year history with the show has Eplin been so underused. Not to mention Charles Keating, ignored for the first nine months of 1996. He won the Emmy for Best Actor and he still wasn't given a story.

* The killing off of Ryan. While it was PMV's decision to leave, JFP made the mistake of making it impossible for him to return to the role (in a substantial manner).

* The firing of Barbara Berjer. Jensen Buchanan herself says that Bridget is the character she'd most like to have return to the show.

* The firing and/or gross misuse of popular talented actors such as Christine Tucci, Randy Brooks, and Nancy Frangione.

(10) Putting on Airs

* JFP was supposedly against NBC's plan to turn AW into a clone of DOOL. Yet she created a DOOLish atmosphere by upping the violence quota, producing DOOL-type stories such as Justine and the Nick/Sofia/Maggie triangle, hiring models who couldn't act, and experimenting with supernatural stories.

* JFP took credit for increasing key demographics (women), which is apparently what she was hired by NBC to do. If you expect me to believe that she increased the violence and dumbed down the women characters *specifically* to increase viewership among women, well, I can't believe it. If the demographics did go up (and there is contradictory evidence whether they increased and whether the increase was sustained), then I can only believe that the increase is a coincidence.

* JFP said that she loved the characters on the show. If so, why did she rewrite much of their history and personality?

* Near the end of her tenure, JFP said that she "loved" Another World. Really? Did she hunt up old episodes? Does she eagerly tune in each day to watch the show, even though she's no longer EP? That's what it means to love the show. What JFP loved was being in control of a show and subjecting it to her latest fancy.

* And did she ever listen to the advice Harding Lemay was hired to give her? From what the show became under her hands, it seems not.