Rachel as likely sloppy seconds at the expense of her relationship with Greg & the brief problems Ford will cause for Cayla don't really qualify as stories.

It's not self-involved at all. What OLTL has been able to achieve with Kish is so very worthy of celebration. I am not advocating the idea that there is a competition between gay visibility and minority visibility as much as I am taking exception with tptb's unwillingness to balance the two issues. Destiny's character losing out romantically to Danielle would not be as much as a problem if we had a clear idea of what tptb have planned next for her character. But we don't because tptb never plan what to do next with the minority characters once they've served their purpose. Actually, that's incorrect. Instead of moving minorities into their next story which would follow the dictum of logic, we'll soon see yet another minority shuffled into the challenge and awe inspiring platonic support system.

Pretty much.

But they did put her with other people. They promoted the hell out of her time with Tuc Watkins, promising they would be great together. They were just okay. They gave her two of the finest black character actors around as her parents. They gave her plenty of face time with Hillary B. Smith and Bob Woods. It just didn't fly.

I'm with you in that I think ending the story here (if that happens) would send a bad message, and I think they should recast the role of Destiny. But I have no real objection to OLTL cutting their losses on Edmonds herself. None whatsoever.

I wouldn't object either. I do think she could have been more integrated with other actors - and sooner - and that many inexperienced, young white actors and actresses have gotten more of a chance at that. Now they probably should recast. The situation is a mess, and a sad one because of the implications.

As for Blair and Tea, I think there is a perception among some fans that the "underdogs" of the past year - Blair and Destiny - are going under the wheels of the bus for Tea and her child.

I get that, and I agree there's some truth to the way Blair has been written. My point was that I just don't think it belongs in a discussion of the racial undertones of the Destiny story, which led to a side-note that Tea is a woman of color as well. Based on what's happening to Destiny, logically Tea would be cast aside for Blair if what's happening in one story had to do with what was happening in the other. When I started to write "because Blair is a white character," I remembered that she's not exactly true, which brings me to...

Not really. It wasn't a decision based out of race - it was Michael Malone's crazy idea. He'd always envisioned Blair as a Southern belle, a "Scarlett O'Hara," but in '91 they'd hired Mia Korf simply because she was the best actress for the role, regardless of race. And that's very commendable, but when she left and it came time to recast, Malone apparently insisted on going for his Scarlett archetype even if it would make fans' eyes boggle. I think KDP owns the role now and I wouldn't want anyone else, but I also think Malone's choice was a truly bizarre example of a writer looking so far beyond racial issues that he went into a strange world of fantasy that fans struggled to follow behind.

I've actually never heard that story. Wow. I don't know that I put any more stock in that, though, than I would if Ron Carlivati were sent to fall on his sword and give some interview saying, "I always envisioned Matthew's first love being a thin, blonde girl [whose mother is Latina and whose entire identity has hinged upon a dark-haired man believing he was her father after having met Roger Howarth's Todd, but never mind], so when we had the opportunity to bring in Dani we just had to go with my original concept." Even if it's true about Malone though, I have to question a writer being so invested in his original concept of a character being blonde, even after writing for an Asian actress in the role for nearly two years whom he admits was the best actress for the role.

Not me. It was clearly presented this week as a symptom of his PTSD and Nick's confession scene was intended as (and was, to me) heartbreaking.

I agree, when he finally confessed, it was a moving scene. And I'm glad it didn't drag on and on with Nick becoming a gay male Stacey Morasco. But I just felt they didn't need to go there, and I did get a glimpse of what soaps as they otherwise are now would be like if gay couples were literally treated like straight couples. There would be a lot of desperate, pathetic third wheels using the unpleasant things that happen to LGBT people in this world for sympathy, the same way that female characters have manipulated men using the "power" of child-bearing for decades. It was disheartening.

The only time Tea came second to Blair was in her brief 2002 return, when the show had no plans to keep her around. And this was when Todd had spent a year covering up his decision to sell Blair's baby and tell her that her child was dead, so what exactly did Blair win?

The same thing, I imagine, that Tea is supposedly going to "win" now. I can't figure out what that is either.

Tea came back to make Todd realize he should be with Blair, and then Marty came back in to testify that Todd could never rape Blair because he loves her. Now, Marty and Blair have taken turns telling Todd/helping him to realize he loves Tea and should be with her. It seems to me that these characters are all used interchangeably to continually justify Todd's place as the romantic lead of this show. I like Tea, so it stood out in my memory the most when her history was being invalidated, but after all of these years I've come to think the more important question is why any of these women care about who Todd really loves, let alone go out of their way to help him figure it out.

I'll add a third voice in support of Rachel and Leila's stories being worthy of them. They are the most interesting and rootable younger heroines on this show and should be in the center of the drama.

Edited January 1, 201015 yr by DeliaIrisFan

The same thing, I imagine, that Tea is supposedly going to "win" now. I can't figure out what that is either.

Yes, but the main difference is Blair didn't know about the dead baby lie. Tea has always known Todd's worst and loved him for it. She loved him even more after he punched her in the face. I think in her head, her staying with him after he was abusive to her showed everyone what a noble person she was, and that if she stayed with him, she could eventually "fix" him.

That's one of the many reasons this reunion seems so flat to me. I don't think Tea would ever be interested in a Todd who didn't constantly treat her like crap. As soon as he started in about her being his soulmate, I think she would have found some new monster to try to tame.

I'll add a third voice in support of Rachel and Leila's stories being worthy of them. They are the most interesting and rootable younger heroines on this show and should be in the center of the drama.

TPTB will never invest in them significantly with Pretty White People With Problems available.

Yes, but the main difference is Blair didn't know about the dead baby lie. Tea has always known Todd's worst and loved him for it. She loved him even more after he punched her in the face. I think in her head, her staying with him after he was abusive to her showed everyone what a noble person she was, and that if she stayed with him, she could eventually "fix" him.

That's one of the many reasons this reunion seems so flat to me. I don't think Tea would ever be interested in a Todd who didn't constantly treat her like crap. As soon as he started in about her being his soulmate, I think she would have found some new monster to try to tame.

And TPTB need to stop using Blair & Nora to prop Tea.

That's what Carlotta & Viki are for.

Rachel as likely sloppy seconds at the expense of her relationship with Greg & the brief problems Ford will cause for Cayla don't really qualify as stories.

Pretty much.

I'm confused.

Last we saw of Layla she was headed to her mother's to inform her that she was now dating Cristian. How is Ford who seems headed into Langston's direction going to cause problems for Layla? And what happens to Rachel and Greg? Last we saw of Rachel she was moving in with Greg. How is she slopply seconds?

What about Destiny?

Edited January 1, 201015 yr by Leia

About what?

I'm confused.

Last we saw of Layla she was headed to her mother's to inform her that she was now dating Cristian. How is Ford who seems headed into Langston's direction going to cause problems for Layla? And what happens to Rachel and Greg? Last we saw of Rachel she was moving in with Greg. How is she slopply seconds?

What about Destiny?

Ford hits on Layla briefly causing problems for Cayla but ends up staying with them & Fish leading to him causing problems with Kish too.

Rachel becomes Sky's confidant which will not make Greg too happy.

Destiny & Shaun get to comfort each other about their love lives.

That's it.

I believe Mia Korf (like Mark Brettschneider and I think Susan Batten) was part of Linda Gottlieb's rather innovative casting project, to recruit charismatic undiscovered talent and weave the interesting new characters they inspired into the show, instead of the standard other way around. I think casting Mia as Dorian's niece was a brilliant choice, I love that an Asian American actress was tied to such a popular and prominent caucasian character instead of being islanded. Blair being a Japanese-speaking interpreter in the Jaba City s/l had to have been born out of information gleaned from Mia's early interviews with Linda. Ugh, to throw that all away for some Southern Belle hangup was just absurd. Create another damn character, boo-hoo if you were dead set on the name Blair. Addie, or any other character, could have had another daughter in Scarlett O'Blaira's image, matter fact, Kelly Cramer could have been that character. I shed a little tear for the Amerasian Starr and Jack that could have been.

I think Ford is an unneeded canvas crowder and I don't think the actor is particularly good. There are other characters I would much rather see focused on.

^ I like Ford just for superficial reasons, but I'm willing to bet he'll be gone this time next year if OLTL is still on air.

I shed a little tear for the Amerasian Starr and Jack that could have been.

I doubt they would be any different than the tiresome Starr and Jack we have now, except, given the big step backwards all the soaps have done in terms of diversity, they might not even be around, or Jack may not have ever been born.

^ I like Ford just for superficial reasons, but I'm willing to bet he'll be gone this time next year if OLTL is still on air.

The only way I'll be interested in him is if we find out he's working for Mitch, as some have speculated.

Ugh, what I most fear about Destiny is when/if she actually DOES get a little love interest. If it's a cute white kid, okay, good for her, who needs Matt, but, "Why she always gotta be wif a scrawny lil' white boy?? " Then, if it's a black boy, "Well see, that's how it should be, look how it all worked out when she got with somebody of her own kind. " And then if it's an asian, latin, pacific islander, or whatever else boy, it's going to be, "DAMN, what's wrong with a black boy!? Is this show DETERMINED not to bring on a young black guy, Destiny or otherwise?? "

It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't type scenario here. All of these things *shouldn't* matter, but, uh, they kinda do... to many people, especially the oft neglected large black fanbase. Messages are sent whether we are aware of it or not, even if "race doesn't matter" to you, the often subtle implications of race do not go unnoticed to many of us in the real world. At first I thought that if things actually worked out with Destiny and Matt and they became a couple for a while before breaking up in a traditional soapy way, things would be easier. But not really. There's really no easy way to broach this. I still think it would have helped *a little* if little Jack had this mad crush on Destiny, kind of a Dee and Little Earl-type thing.

I think Ford is an unneeded canvas crowder and I don't think the actor is particularly good. There are other characters I would much rather see focused on.

No, there is ZERO reason for him to be on the show. If DeeDee's argument was about keeping him and putting Destiny on backburner then I actually would get behind it. He'll be out very soon though I think

^ I like Ford just for superficial reasons, but I'm willing to bet he'll be gone this time next year if OLTL is still on air.

I can understand that, but I just think of him popping that gum and trying to be all smarmy L.A. producer cool, and I just want to punch him in his face.

Mmmmm, I don't think we want him to be involved with Mitch, I mean, if that's where they're going so be it... but do you really wanna watch this guy moustache twirl with Roscoe Born? Passions on a bad day. Which is saying something.