9 minutes ago, P.J. said:

She and Ross should've gotten a shot at being Springfield's power couple.

Yes...she takes on the Alan..with Ross helping her...(the only thing is, RR's Alan is a total horndog fool and Van would have wiped the floor with him.) What is Phillips relationship with Alan here..it seems that they totally muted the animosity between them  (until Taggert brought it back..) calling Alan.."dad" and just mooning over Harley. 

30 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

And it wasn't that hard for them to actually just look it up..some of the writers and production staff from that time were still around..it just seems that the GL staff at that time dont really give a crap..they need to keep the plot moving and the plot at this time was to make Harley a down home gal and the Spaulding EVIL..which is amped up when Wheeler/Kreizman take over.  A mere mention of Harley saying "I lived that life before,  I chased it and it turned out to be a bad thing, at least for me and Im afraid to go back."

A bad thing about this time is that I remember out of all the goofiness,  the Spaudling Lobby and wonder why they got rid of it..perfect place for characters to interact and conspire instead of the one office they always show.  Vicky had real potential as an outsider in the midst of this, and I love OG Van coming back (that scene where she tells Alan to STFU about the clone is great...I feel she knows, thinks it's beneath her to involve herself, but wants to protect Spaulding and Michael and Josh's rep.

That would have made it much better, and it's so easy too!  I know actors tend to view these as jobs and they're not super fans like us, so they don't always remember storylines, but you'd think at some point Beth E. would have said something? Maybe actors didn't think it was their place either.

That's a great way to describe Vanessa's feelings about it and what I choose to believe too haha.

40 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Harley and Alan-Michael got married because there was a provision in his trust that said if he stayed married for six months, he got control of it. They were hot for each other, and realized later they were in love, but gaining access to the money was the main reason for the marriage. Alan actually pushed them towards it, because at the time he was broke and wanted to manipulate AM into giving him funds. 

There were ample reasons why Harley wouldn't have been comfortable in the "Spaulding world", but her having been poor was the least of it. There was always a power struggle on the horizon with that family. 

34 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Let me give you a little background on Harley Davidson Cooper:

She was introduced as an unmarried pregnant teen being looked after by her big brother Frank. She and Frank were involved in an auto accident on the way to the hospital while she was in labor. Alan Michael and Dinah were on a motorcycle that AM stole when they crashed into the car. 

Harley gave Dinah a phony name, Fallon, who was a character on the 80s TV show Dynasty. She even told the adoptive parents, the Lemays, that was her name when she surrendered her baby Daisy to them. She seemed to be very blase about giving up the baby. 

Dinah (who was COMPLETELY different back then, virginal and sweet and concerned about everyone) took an interest in Harley and tried to befriend her. I think they were trying to strike lightning twice by recreating another Four Musketeers group. There was a kid named Cameron who dated Harley for a while, but he and Dinah eventually got together. AM and Harley were the odd people out, and very miffed about it. Dinah and Cameron left town together. AM and Harley didn't even seem to like each other, but they bonded over the romantic disappointment. 

Then AM found out if he got married, he could get his trust fund early. Alan, who was at this point, um, "short of funds" (Phillip had set him up to take the fall for swindling of Spaulding funds so he could take over Spaulding, so all his assets were frozen) encouraged AM and Harley to get married, so he could get his hands on some of the trust fund money.

Of course, Phillip and Alex lost their sh!t over that. They saw Harley as too low class and as a gold digger, and they didn't want Alan to get money so he could get revenge over the Spaulding takeover. Harley was pretty open about wanting a rich and famous lifestyle. They thought they could use it against her. Phillip pretended to be in favor of the marriage. He set things up to look like he and Harley were sleeping together.

(BY THE WAY: back then, a LOT of people noticed the chemistry between Grant and Beth, and some speculated Phillip and Harley might get together at some point. Which they eventually did, as you know.)

AM and Harley got back together and realized they truly cared for each other. Even though Harley was joyful at having access to the SPAULDING LIFESTYLE, WHICH SHE ADORED, Phillip eventually came around and realized there was more to her. They became friends. He even promised to help her navigate her new sphere in life. AM and Harley had a splendid wedding at the Spaulding mansion.

Of course, there's lots more, but that's the gist of Harley's origins.

Thank you, both!  Very helpful and appreciate you taking the time to write that out. I really would love to see the old Dinah, and after reading that, it's odd they haven't really had Harley and Dinah interact since Harley returned (to our earlier point, I guess the writers didn't have a grasp on/care about history like that). 

So when she arrived pregnant, was that from Dylan before, offscreen? And they reunited on-screen in SF? I randomly ran across a scene of Harley and Dylan in a dive bar playing pool, with an amazing song in the background and they're very flirtatious. It was a sexy scene for sure and I assumed it was pre-pregnancy, but maybe not.

Harley's current antagonist is Beth... I wonder if Beth Ehlers found it funny having to interact and scream at someone so often with her real name. That just came to me reading your comment about Grant and Beth having chemistry back then because I thought you meant Beth (character) first until I realized it was Ehlers.

Also, I miss Alan-Michael. I know it was a different actor back then (right?), but I miss the character.

30 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

So when she arrived pregnant, was that from Dylan before, offscreen? And they reunited on-screen in SF? I randomly ran across a scene of Harley and Dylan in a dive bar playing pool, with an amazing song in the background and they're very flirtatious.

When she was first introduced, nothing much was said about the baby's father. Dylan was created later on, after AM and Harley were married. I think he had gone to jail? And he was mad that Harley didn't wait for him, and very upset she gave the baby up for adoption. (Because all teen boys want to be fathers...🙄)

No idea if the plan always was to make Dylan Reva and Billy's son. I mean, it's kind of a WILD coincidence that a child who was conceived and given up for adoption in Tulsa just happened to grow up in the town where both his parents ended up moving to years later.

But I guess they learned from the Cameron thing--he probably didn't catch on because he wasn't connected to a major family or character. (Beth--the character Beth--was an exception--the original actress really caught on with the audience, and Lillian ended up being a long-running character).

Harley as a character was interesting, funny, and relatable during her 1987 to 1993 stint.  When she came back in 1997, the writing for the character of Harley was off.. and I think Beth Ethlers had changed as an individual during her time away so her approach to playing Harley differed.

I do recall as a child lots of scenes of Phillip/Harley together in 1988 where on the surface, it appeared as though he was helping her in a 'My Fair Lady' sort of way.. but I had forgotten that he was trying to set it up to have Alan Michael believe that he and Harley were hooking up.

I also remember when Beth Chamberlain came back as Beth in late 1997, she was told that the show was slanting the story to be pro Phillip/Harley... so I believe that partly influenced the odd acting tics she used to play Beth during the 97/98/99 period before she reigned that in and played her a bit closer to how she played Beth in 1989-1991.

5 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Harley as a character was interesting, funny, and relatable during her 1987 to 1993 stint.  When she came back in 1997, the writing for the character of Harley was off.. and I think Beth Ethlers had changed as an individual during her time away so her approach to playing Harley differed.

I do recall as a child lots of scenes of Phillip/Harley together in 1988 where on the surface, it appeared as though he was helping her in a 'My Fair Lady' sort of way.. but I had forgotten that he was trying to set it up to have Alan Michael believe that he and Harley were hooking up.

I also remember when Beth Chamberlain came back as Beth in late 1997, she was told that the show was slanting the story to be pro Phillip/Harley... so I believe that partly influenced the odd acting tics she used to play Beth during the 97/98/99 period before she reigned that in and played her a bit closer to how she played Beth in 1989-1991.

That's how I felt about Harley. I loved Harley from when I first started watching and she was the nanny for Josh and Reva. Looking back I can see some of the changes began in her dreary pairing with Mallet, but she still had her old warmth. Soon after her return, that warmth is gone, and the coldness just gets worse and worse to where I find Harley outright unlikeable. 

Beth was such a mess of a character for her whole last stint. I was never a huge devotee, but I give Beth Chamberlin credit for making it work as well as she did.

31 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

When she was first introduced, nothing much was said about the baby's father. Dylan was created later on, after AM and Harley were married. I think he had gone to jail? And he was mad that Harley didn't wait for him, and very upset she gave the baby up for adoption. (Because all teen boys want to be fathers...🙄)

No idea if the plan always was to make Dylan Reva and Billy's son. I mean, it's kind of a WILD coincidence that a child who was conceived and given up for adoption in Tulsa just happened to grow up in the town where both his parents ended up moving to years later.

But I guess they learned from the Cameron thing--he probably didn't catch on because he wasn't connected to a major family or character. (Beth--the character Beth--was an exception--the original actress really caught on with the audience, and Lillian ended up being a long-running character).

Ahh interesting ok!  I didn't realize Dylan was adopted. Was there much of a reunion between Dylan and Reva/Billy - or was Reva not around much at that time? The adoption thing and meeting him as a young adult makes way more sense to me now when I watch Reva barely remember/acknowledge Dylan upon her return to SF in 1995. I can tolerate that.

I just looked up the Cameron character and didn't realize that was Ian Ziering. Gosh, I can't stand Ian.

19 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I also remember when Beth Chamberlain came back as Beth in late 1997, she was told that the show was slanting the story to be pro Phillip/Harley... so I believe that partly influenced the odd acting tics she used to play Beth during the 97/98/99 period before she reigned that in and played her a bit closer to how she played Beth in 1989-1991.

Not knowing Beth before 1997, I'm curious what the tics are y'all are referring to. 

13 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That's how I felt about Harley. I loved Harley from when I first started watching and she was the nanny for Josh and Reva. Looking back I can see some of the changes began in her dreary pairing with Mallet, but she still had her old warmth. Soon after her return, that warmth is gone, and the coldness just gets worse and worse to where I find Harley outright unlikeable. 

Beth was such a mess of a character for her whole last stint. I was never a huge devotee, but I give Beth Chamberlin credit for making it work as well as she did.

I find Harley to be so neurotic, but it is pretty funny how Phillip calls it out and tolerates it. I didn't really like Harley at first when she returned in 1997, but she's grown on me.

I find Beth to be pretty unstable, which I wasn't expecting when I heard about her before. She's also a bit hoity-toity and it kills her to crack that persona when she's struggling and becoming unhinged.

10 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Was there much of a reunion between Dylan and Reva/Billy - or was Reva not around much at that time?

Yeah, it was a big deal because Josh and Reva were finally married at that point. Of course Reva never told Josh and kept it from him when she found out Dylan was her kid. Also, for the first time since the characters arrived in SF, Billy admitted he never stopped loving Reva. (Because no man does, really, LOL).

I did not ever know Reva was meant to be unable to carry another child at this time - for some reason I thought Reva was already pregnant with Shayne when Dylan arrived.

I hope Reva and Josh got that doctor blacklisted as she went on to have three more children! 

I was never a big fan of Reva and Josh but there's a certain natural quality to them in the first scene that I think many of the show's relationships began losing by the mid/late '90s.

The scene with Dylan and Reva is nice too, once I get past the contrivance of long-lost parent and child getting clashing before they learn they are related. 

Morgun Englund was never the best actor, but he had a certain earnestness and likeability which carried him through.

Edited November 15Nov 15 by DRW50

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Ahh interesting ok!  I didn't realize Dylan was adopted. Was there much of a reunion between Dylan and Reva/Billy - or was Reva not around much at that time? The adoption thing and meeting him as a young adult makes way more sense to me now when I watch Reva barely remember/acknowledge Dylan upon her return to SF in 1995. I can tolerate that.

I just looked up the Cameron character and didn't realize that was Ian Ziering. Gosh, I can't stand Ian.

The Dylan story is really good. Of course the backstory doesn't really hold up to intense scrutiny, and I refuse to believe that Billy was still in love with Reva vs. idealizing her and envying the family life Josh was getting. He was on the make for Vanessa from the moment she knocked on his door.

Dylan learns Reva and Billy are his parents 6-8 months before Reva goes off the bridge.

@DRW50 technically, Reva would've been pregnant with Shayne when she met Dylan. Shayne was born in February, meaning a May conception. She met Dylan in late June. But yeah, Reva was warned against having children after Marah. When Reva and Josh announce it, Billy slugs him, in part because it's supposed to put Reva's life at stake. And the entire reason no one can get mad at Reva over Dylan/her lies is because the stress could impact the baby. Vanessa manages to get about three good lines before Reva starts hyperventilating and has to sit down and take a pill. RME.

22 minutes ago, P.J. said:

The Dylan story is really good. Of course the backstory doesn't really hold up to intense scrutiny, and I refuse to believe that Billy was still in love with Reva vs. idealizing her and envying the family life Josh was getting. He was on the make for Vanessa from the moment she knocked on his door.

Dylan learns Reva and Billy are his parents 6-8 months before Reva goes off the bridge.

@DRW50 technically, Reva would've been pregnant with Shayne when she met Dylan. Shayne was born in February, meaning a May conception. She met Dylan in late June. But yeah, Reva was warned against having children after Marah. When Reva and Josh announce it, Billy slugs him, in part because it's supposed to put Reva's life at stake. And the entire reason no one can get mad at Reva over Dylan/her lies is because the stress could impact the baby. Vanessa manages to get about three good lines before Reva starts hyperventilating and has to sit down and take a pill. RME.

Much as Pam Long could be more honest about Reva she still had to shield her too, I suppose. 

I tend to think that Billy only has strong feelings for Reva when he can't have Vanessa. 

5 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Huh?

She was literally married to a Spaulding. She married him BECAUSE she wanted the Spaulding lifestyle.

Holy cats, that's just a ridiculous rewriting of history. Of course, Harley has grown up and changed over the years, but to completely memory-hole all that is CRAZY.

They could have paid a loyal, long-term viewer or two help them with their continuity. There were probably people who would have done it for FREE.

I can't remember if this was under McTavish or B&E but this was also the era when Reva told Marah that she was her first born child.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I did not ever know Reva was meant to be unable to carry another child at this time - for some reason I thought Reva was already pregnant with Shayne when Dylan arrived.

I hope Reva and Josh got that doctor blacklisted as she went on to have three more children! 

I was never a big fan of Reva and Josh but there's a certain natural quality to them in the first scene that I think many of the show's relationships began losing by the mid/late '90s.

The scene with Dylan and Reva is nice too, once I get past the contrivance of long-lost parent and child getting clashing before they learn they are related. 

Morgun Englund was never the best actor, but he had a certain earnestness and likeability which carried him through.

Thanks for sharing that video!  What month/year was that? I know she meant personality, but when Reva told Dylan that he reminded her of Rusty, I thought he for sure resembles him!  

Thanks everyone - I'm glad Reva/Dylan at least had several months together before she went off the bridge. To DRW's point, when she came back, it's so painfully obvious the writers don't know or care about Dylan and their history. I can't believe Kim would even allow the dialogue to say Marah was her firstborn haha, so bad.

7 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Thanks for sharing that video!  What month/year was that? I know she meant personality, but when Reva told Dylan that he reminded her of Rusty, I thought he for sure resembles him!  

Thanks everyone - I'm glad Reva/Dylan at least had several months together before she went off the bridge. To DRW's point, when she came back, it's so painfully obvious the writers don't know or care about Dylan and their history. I can't believe Kim would even allow the dialogue to say Marah was her firstborn haha, so bad.

This must be around May, June or July 1989.

I think many actors don't want to rock the boat. On Coronation Street, a character said he didn't know what it was like to lose a child. Many viewers complained, as he had lost a child to a stillbirth. The actor said he tried to speak up but they told him to just read the line.

I do respect the likes of Liz Hubbard who ad-libbed that she had "three daughters" over a decade after the show forgot one of her daughters had ever existed, but most of the time that isn't allowed or just doesn't happen.

41 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Much as Pam Long could be more honest about Reva she still had to shield her too, I suppose. 

I tend to think that Billy only has strong feelings for Reva when he can't have Vanessa. 

Well, Reva's transformation into a straight up heroine had been swift. I don't think Long wanted to remind viewers of the selfish, conniving hustler she'd been either. And as a Billy/Van fan, there is something very sweet about how Vanessa's really the only one looking out for Billy and his feelings. 

And Billy's preoccupation with Reva when he can't have Van sounds about right. Anyway, that's my story, and I'll stick to it.