9 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

The cameos I appreciated were more the longtime cast of previous eras, even if I wish they'd had more to do.

I know I sound like a crank---but even I enjoyed Peter Simon's return. And I have to concede, they didn't have as much time as ATWT did to wrap things up. But too much of those last few weeks were wasted with unnecessary D plot stories. I didn't even feel killing Alan was necessary.

24 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Another attempt to save the show, desperately looking for that magic bullet. This was definitely not it. I don't even know why you would want to give up the "oldest show" mantle. It's not like being "young" helped the newer soaps survive.

Or even revamping an existing show (Loving/The City)

If there was one decision that distills how wrong-headed she was, it's "rebooting" Josh as a reverend. I mean, Kim thinks she's got complaints? I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Robert Newman got that script.

14 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I know I sound like a crank---but even I enjoyed Peter Simon's return. And I have to concede, they didn't have as much time as ATWT did to wrap things up. But too much of those last few weeks were wasted with unnecessary D plot stories. I didn't even feel killing Alan was necessary.

Or even revamping an existing show (Loving/The City)

If there was one decision that distills how wrong-headed she was, it's "rebooting" Josh as a reverend. I mean, Kim thinks she's got complaints? I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Robert Newman got that script.

I don't think the idea of Josh as a reverend was terrible, as it's not like Josh was ever a very rigidly defined character - he was mostly just a bit of a prick who liked crazy ladies and obsessed over Reva. I think the problem is what do you do with the story once he's a reverend? Where does that go?

Philip in that role might have made more sense, trying to reform after his hurtling toward the dark side (including killing someone - not that anybody gave a damn).

I agree with you about the final weeks not having strong enough stories. That is probably true for the show in general long before the end. 

There's a certain hokey, wholesome air to the show by the end. That isn't really "my" GL, but it is closer to my GL than the show often felt in the first half of the decade.

If we are going to tear our hair out over the agonies of what Wheeler did to GL and how she ruined the show, as Kim or others might, I mostly put that time to the Jonathan era (which I tended to avoid and don't care about rewatching) and how it capped off so much of the sickness and sleaze also peddled by late Rauch and Conboy, rather than the last year of the show. 

 

Instead of trying to convince y'all that Susan Lucci deserved all those noms (I know, I'm biased ), I'll just leave you with more chapter summaries from Kim's book:

Chapter 17 - mentions that her mom’s health took a turn for the worse a week after GL’s cancellation notice. Kim’s sister said they were moving her to hospice care and likely won’t live by tomorrow. Kim rushed to Michigan to be with her, but her connecting flight got cancelled and there were no other options that night. Thankfully she got the first flight out the next morning and made it to her mom before she passed away that night. Her mom was GL’s and Reva’s biggest fan and would always give Kim her opinion on storylines, hairstyles, etc. She never wanted to know from Kim what was happening - no spoilers for her - because she wanted to watch it unfold daily and be surprised. They recorded episodes on VHS, which Kim now has and at the time of her book, thought about getting them transferred to DVD so she could cherish them. Kim said one of her biggest regrets is not spending a lot of time with her parents later in life, because she was working daily and any little free time she had, she spent it with her husband and kids. But, she feels good knowing that her parents got to watch her every day on TV as a consolation.

She then spends way too much time on her menopause journey haha. From periods, to hot flashes, to gaining uncontrollable weight. She said Nutrisystem reached out to do a deal, but they wanted to tie it into Reva’s character losing weight, and Kim said absolutely not. There will never be a ‘Reva is fat’ storyline, so she declined it. But looking back, she said she should have taken the deal. By the time her last Daytime Emmys show came, she was 40 pounds overweight and a few months away from being without a job, so she realized potential future employers would be looking at her, so she wanted to wearing something slimming. She chose a black dress with white fluffy flowers around the bosom, but looking back, she ended up looking like Shamu. She was upset that they only gave GL a 3-minute tribute at the awards show. “After 72 years and countless Emmys won, all they could give was 3 minutes?” Then, the show was running long so they had to cut the segment even shorter, and Betty White, who presented them, took up the first 2.5 minutes on her own. Then a shortened video clip aired and then the entire cast got to wave for 30 seconds before they cut to commercial. The original plan was a longer video and then each cast member would bow as they panned slowly through the cast. She said the entire experience was weird. She said Sesame Street was also honored that night, for being on-air for 30 years, and they got a full 11 minutes. The whole night was bittersweet.

She then talks about the last day filming GL and how every single cast and crew member got called out by name, they hired a bus to take everyone around so they all could watch each final scene be filmed. Every producer, director and cast member got to produce, direct and act one final scene. And she’ll always be grateful the last word uttered on GL was “Always”, with Reva/Josh together in scene.

Chapter 18 - she said she assumed she could easily get work after GL, with regional stage, primetime movies or pilots, but found it much harder than she thought. The younger actors on the show got quick and easy offers at other soaps (Cosgrove, Rylan, Tognoni). She then goes into her DUI - she paid a large fee in lieu of community service, required 38 hours of DUI class, required 32 AA meetings, and 6 months driving suspension with probation for 3 years after that. She learned she’s not an alcoholic, but she used alcohol to self-medicate and numb her anger during her last few years on GL, and it helped her learn a valuable lesson that actions have consequences. She said growing up, her parents rarely drank, only socially, and she never remembers them being over-served. Kim said her parents let her have a sip of wine/beer when she was 11 and she first got drunk in high school at a kegger. She was more of a party girl than an alcoholic as an adult. But her heaviest drinking was during her last 5 years on GL. The night before the 2009 Emmys, Soap Opera Digest held a party for all East and West coast soaps, and Kim got so drunk, she fell on the floor and couldn’t get up and Crystal Chappell (GL) and Hillary B. Smith (OLTL) had to pick her up and protect her so no one would take photos. Another night, Crystal Chappell’s baby shower, she got so drunk again but had an early 7am call time, so she only got 4 hours of sleep and insisted she drive herself to work because she knew that drive like that back of her hand. She thought she saw someone getting into her lane and she overcorrected and swerved across 4 lanes of rush hour traffic and smashed into a median. She said she saw her life flash before her eyes in that moment. Ultimately she learned from these mistakes that she will never drink and drive again, and no one ever should either. She feels lucky she didn’t hurt herself or others. She still enjoys her wine though with dinner.

Thanks @alwaysAMC 

Those sound like the classic I'm-not-an-alcoholic lines but as we haven't heard of her having any more trouble over the last 15 years I'll take her word for it. 

That tribute really was garbage. I was not surprised but I was still disgusted. GL was the first of the long-running soaps to go in the era where it was said that the public didn't care about soaps anymore, so there was no effort made. IIRC, the "So Long Springfield" tours generated much more of a public response than anyone expected. I think this is one of the reasons that ATWT got more publicity and merchandise when it ended.

I remember buying SPW's goodbye issue for GL. I felt like I had to do so to show support for someone, anyone, paying tribute to GL, even if by that point SPW wasn't even useful as toilet paper.

49 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I don't think the idea of Josh as a reverend was terrible, as it's not like Josh was ever a very rigidly defined character - he was mostly just a bit of a prick who liked crazy ladies and obsessed over Reva. I think the problem is what do you do with the story once he's a reverend? Where does that go?

Philip in that role might have made more sense, trying to reform after his hurtling toward the dark side (including killing someone - not that anybody gave a damn).

I agree with you about the final weeks not having strong enough stories. That is probably true for the show in general long before the end. 

There's a certain hokey, wholesome air to the show by the end. That isn't really "my" GL, but it is closer to my GL than the show often felt in the first half of the decade.

If we are going to tear our hair out over the agonies of what Wheeler did to GL and how she ruined the show, as Kim or others might, I mostly put that time to the Jonathan era (which I tended to avoid and don't care about rewatching) and how it capped off so much of the sickness and sleaze also peddled by late Rauch and Conboy, rather than the last year of the show. 

 

I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling Josh a prick, but definitely never the sharpest of the Lewis clan. And your point is more spot on than mine---Wheeler rarely carried through on her ideas. 

Re: Jon---you wouldn't get an argument from me. I disavow anything connected to that horrid mess. 

4 hours ago, SheenaSoaper said:

Yes! She barely lasted during her first GL run. She ran back to ATWT for a year and a half as director.

Yes when someone made the remarkably stupid & possibly insane decision to put GL in the hands of John Conboy & Ellen Weston, who did not have suitable writing experience. Sure, she went to ATWT & worked as both a director & a producer. If I'd been in her place I can only hope I'd have found that way to get away from ConWest. 

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

https://www.welovesoaps.tv/

TYSM!

And, no, I do not accept that passage from KZ's book as documentation that EW did not like one of GL's strongest assets, and, frankly, I am somewhat concerned that anyone of us here would reach for that as any kind of objective truth of events at the time. My hope had been something that would shed real light or insight on what EW, who clearly revered the show history, was reaching for, and why. 

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Yes when someone made the remarkably stupid & possibly insane decision to put GL in the hands of John Conboy & Ellen Weston, who did not have suitable writing experience. Sure, she went to ATWT & worked as both a director & a producer. If I'd been in her place I can only hope I'd have found that way to get away from ConWest. 

If she returned to ATWT as a producer 2003 and into early 2004, then she was not credited. She for sure returned to her regular directing spot.

11 minutes ago, SheenaSoaper said:

If she returned to ATWT as a producer 2003 and into early 2004, then she was not credited. She for sure returned to her regular directing spot.

Yes, I said before that it was not listed but that I knew it had happened. She would not even be close to the first error to be found on either one of those sources, which is something I also mentioned upfront on that post. Not a surprise, though, we all know that they are rife with errors. But, either way, working again as a Line Producer or working again as a Director, both are honest work, in related fields. It is not at all a big thing one over the other.

11 hours ago, P.J. said:

I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling Josh a prick, but definitely never the sharpest of the Lewis clan. And your point is more spot on than mine---Wheeler rarely carried through on her ideas. 

Re: Jon---you wouldn't get an argument from me. I disavow anything connected to that horrid mess. 

I know full well this is a  Minority position but I really liked Josh as a pastor. Seemed much better suited to the character, to me anyway.

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That tribute really was garbage. I was not surprised but I was still disgusted. GL was the first of the long-running soaps to go in the era where it was said that the public didn't care about soaps anymore, so there was no effort made.

Actually there was a rather nice tribute done, a bit over 4 minutes. It is not clear how it ended up not being used. But, apparently at the last minute, someone pulled it.  I wish it would surface now.  It occurs to me that if anyone has it, it would be Michael Fairman as it was his creation. Maybe I will reach out to him to see if he still has a copy 

 

Edited June 24Jun 24 by Contessa Donatella

On 6/23/2025 at 4:12 AM, Contessa Donatella said:

I think of us as a secret society. The only thing we have in common is this kind of maybe obsessive feeling we have about seeing every single moment of these shows, ya know, LOL! We do not FF show. We think clips are great as extras, enhancements, but never replacements for full episodes, etc. I suspect there are a lot of us. I try to think of a name for us but all I can come up with is "sticklers" which is not very positive sounding. 

Well said

12 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

The night before the 2009 Emmys, Soap Opera Digest held a party for all East and West coast soaps, and Kim got so drunk, she fell on the floor and couldn’t get up and Crystal Chappell (GL) and Hillary B. Smith (OLTL) had to pick her up and protect her so no one would take photos. 

At the time, news about this spread like wildfire throughout, well, certain areas of soap fandom, not just GL either. To hear the people who were there, and who saw it firsthand, appalling is not a strong enough word. She made a total fool of herself & yes, many people saw it firsthand. Today, where people are almost ALL tethered to their phones, there would be pictures galore!!! So, since it wasn't that way in 2009, she dodged that bullet!

12 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Instead of trying to convince y'all that Susan Lucci deserved all those noms (I know, I'm biased ),

Actually, I would be interested in your pov on Lucci. 

12 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

She then talks about the last day filming GL and how every single cast and crew member got called out by name, they hired a bus to take everyone around so they all could watch each final scene be filmed. Every producer, director and cast member got to produce, direct and act one final scene. And she’ll always be grateful the last word uttered on GL was “Always”, with Reva/Josh together in scene.

And, here, at last, we have KZ saying very nice things that are down to one Ellen Wheeler. She maybe didn't mention that they had hundreds of fans there, at the end, clapping & screaming with joy, after CUT was called on every scene. The set-up looked for all the world like it does at Golf Tournaments where this mob of fans are the viewers on site. 

 

On 6/23/2025 at 10:00 AM, Vee said:

Kim nailed Charita Bauer, IMO. Same with Beth Ehlers doing Irna Phillips.

Agreed... both did great and I couldn't stand Ehlers at that point. I think Kim channeled her "grand good humor" that Jerry said about Charita (and whatever one can say about Kimmer, and I have, at her best she does have the same thing...her fragile ego and need to compete just got in the way...) and Ehlers channeled Irna's brittleness and just not taking it attitude..which Ehlers had in spades at that time..it just didn't suit them trying to make Harley the romantic heroine (I always wish Harley had gone back to her tough girl ways after being jilted by everyman. she was with...now Ehlers could play the HELL out of that..) 

About Vanessa, yes, I think she should have been the end game matriarch..but paired with JVD as patriarch. I would have moved everything to have Ross and Van reunite and be the new tentpoles...Bloss and Mattessa fans be damned. Ross has the gentle warmth that would offset Maeve's icy backbone of steel (I would never want to be on the end of Kim Hughes "kiddo" but I would NEVER, EVER want to feel the quiet wrath of Vanessa, even Reva admits at the end that she is afraid of her!!!) 

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

If we are going to tear our hair out over the agonies of what Wheeler did to GL and how she ruined the show, as Kim or others might, I mostly put that time to the Jonathan era (which I tended to avoid and don't care about rewatching) and how it capped off so much of the sickness and sleaze also peddled by late Rauch and Conboy, rather than the last year of the show. 

 

This right here is why I never came back as a regular viewer because there just seemed to be too much sleaze and mean-spiritedness that marked GL. I'd say it went back even before Rauch. As much as I was riveted by the Marian Crane drama, when we covered it recently, the mean-spirited nature of it never struck me at the time because Frank Beaty was so fantastic. Beyond that, they went out of their way to make sure that everyone knew that Marian Crane was meant to resemble JFP as well. Now that we  have McTavish's memoir, we can see where a lot of that vicious behavior came from.

re: Ellen Wheeler

She was a hired gun. Her GL reeked of desperation. Do you blame the one who put the victim out of its misery or the people who ordered the hit? 

 

6 hours ago, chrisml said:

This right here is why I never came back as a regular viewer because there just seemed to be too much sleaze and mean-spiritedness that marked GL. I'd say it went back even before Rauch. As much as I was riveted by the Marian Crane drama, when we covered it recently, the mean-spirited nature of it never struck me at the time because Frank Beaty was so fantastic. Beyond that, they went out of their way to make sure that everyone knew that Marian Crane was meant to resemble JFP as well. Now that we  have McTavish's memoir, we can see where a lot of that vicious behavior came from.

re: Ellen Wheeler

She was a hired gun. Her GL reeked of desperation. Do you blame the one who put the victim out of its misery or the people who ordered the hit? 

I never saw the resemblance onscreen, and I rarely heard anyone talk about the resemblance until this thread, but maybe I was in the wrong places. There were definitely other mean-spirited elements that I noticed at the time, like the way Toby Poser was treated.

You could probably go back to the Kobe era to find mean-spirited treatment of actors, like allegedly killing off characters out of spite.

I do think Wheeler was hired to run out the clock. She kept the show alive longer than many probably expected. I wouldn't really blame her (I would criticize a number of her choices but I wouldn't blame her for the show ending), and I wonder if she was not seen as a crying woman if she would get as much blame. 

Edited June 24Jun 24 by DRW50

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I do think Wheeler was hired to run out the clock. She kept the show alive longer than many probably expected. I wouldn't really blame her (I would criticize a number of her choices but I wouldn't blame her for the show ending), and I wonder if she was not seen as a crying woman if she would get as much blame. 

Or if she would be characterized as "weak" if she weren't a woman. She was playing the cards she was dealt. There's a lot of criticism of Goutman, who was dealing with the same issues. But I can't recall any suggestion (whether rumors in the press or by the actors) that he was somehow "less than" for working within mandates sent down from corporate.

And I'd lay odds if Wheeler had barked back at Kim, then she'd have been cast as the bitch.