45 minutes ago, Ryanc2 said:

I’m watching more episodes tonight and there’s a scene with Harley/Susan and Reva/Cassie at the hospital and Harley is introducing Susan to her grandmother Reva. I’m sitting there wracking my brain trying to figure out how the heck Reva has any relation to Susan at all.. then I started doing some digging and realized OHH.. so Susan’s biological father is Reva’s son! lol.. that would have confused to absolute [!@#$%^&*] out of me if I was a new viewer in 1999. 

Google has really been my friend since starting this show lol

LOL...sometimes it's even hard for us old viewers to remember how everyone's related to everyone.  The unique problem with Susan is when she was first brought up, her name was Daisy. You can also get used to her age---she only ages about another six years over the last 10 years of the show. Meanwhile, Marina, who is her cousin and born on screen about 5 years after her, ends up about ten years older than her by the end.

1 minute ago, P.J. said:

LOL...sometimes it's even hard for us old viewers to remember how everyone's related to everyone.  The unique problem with Susan is when she was first brought up, her name was Daisy. You can also get used to her age---she only ages about another six years over the last 10 years of the show. Meanwhile, Marina, who is her cousin and born on screen about 5 years after her, ends up about ten years older than her by the end.

I wonder if they were afraid of Harley having a daughter who was too old. Or they just wanted more characters in that age range. It made no sense. They probably assumed viewers wouldn't notice as Susan had been gone most of the decade. Meanwhile, Rick and Mel had a 16 year old daughter overnight....

6 minutes ago, P.J. said:

LOL...sometimes it's even hard for us old viewers to remember how everyone's related to everyone.  The unique problem with Susan is when she was first brought up, her name was Daisy. You can also get used to her age---she only ages about another six years over the last 10 years of the show. Meanwhile, Marina, who is her cousin and born on screen about 5 years after her, ends up about ten years older than her by the end.

Oh god I hate when they do that. I don’t have a problem with SORASing characters but when they make the character younger or older than they are supposed to be it just throws everything off. 
 

They just recast Cane on Y&R and made him 10 years younger. He has 2 young adult children and the actor is only 40. I have no idea how they’re going to address that.

Edited June 22Jun 22 by Ryanc2

9 minutes ago, Ryanc2 said:

Well Dylan isn’t on the show right now where I’m watching. The only parents I’ve seen of Susan’s is Jim and Harley. I knew Susan was put up for adoption as a baby and adopted by Jim and Connie but I didn’t know who the bio father was. The bio father has not yet been addressed until this particular episode and Reva explains to Susan that Dylan is her son. 

Who knows maybe it was addressed in earlier episodes I watched but it just went over my head at the time. 

The confusing thing about googling the family ties in soap operas tends to be when a characters true mother/father is changed at a later time so if I’m watching earlier episodes it may not make sense but I find it tends to be pretty accurate. 

Now, I get it completely. I wasn't clear, at all, what you were seeing. Ignore everything I said. 

 

2 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Now, I get it completely. I wasn't clear, at all, what you were seeing. Ignore everything I said. 

 

No worries 😜It can be confusing trying to explain soap operas families.. and since I started looking up the families on GL I’m actually shocked at how many generations of characters there is. It’s actually really cool that there is such a rich history but I know it’s going to take a LONG time to grasp.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I wonder if they were afraid of Harley having a daughter who was too old. Or they just wanted more characters in that age range. It made no sense. They probably assumed viewers wouldn't notice as Susan had been gone most of the decade. Meanwhile, Rick and Mel had a 16 year old daughter overnight....

There must have been a gap between Brittany Snow and the last girl? 

Were they afraid of aging Harley...or Reva? 'Cause ol' granny Reva shouldn't be out clubbing with her granddaughter. And you know she'd do that.

1 hour ago, Ryanc2 said:

No worries 😜It can be confusing trying to explain soap operas families.. and since I started looking up the families on GL I’m actually shocked at how many generations of characters there is. It’s actually really cool that there is such a rich history but I know it’s going to take a LONG time to grasp.

LOL...the marriages will drive you crazy. For example, Susan's grandparents (Buzz/Nadine and Billy/Reva) intermarried. Buzz was briefly married to Reva, and Billy and Nadine were married for two hellish years.

 

1 hour ago, Ryanc2 said:

Oh god I hate when they do that. I don’t have a problem with SORASing characters but when they make the character younger or older than they are supposed to be it just throws everything off. 

Ugh...it's one of my pet peeves too. 

16 minutes ago, P.J. said:

There must have been a gap between Brittany Snow and the last girl? 

Were they afraid of aging Harley...or Reva? 'Cause ol' granny Reva shouldn't be out clubbing with her granddaughter. And you know she'd do that.

It may have been both, although I am guessing Harley was more of the issue.

I think there was a 5 or 6 year gap between the actresses in appearances. 

Looking it up, the recast Daisy was only 3 years younger than Brittany Snow - less than I had expected.

I don't know the Susan character yet, but man, everything you're confused about feels very familiar to when I started. It feels like everyone in Springfield has either hooked up with, married or had children with everyone else in Springfield. The family ties are very confusing and you almost have to study it like the Game of Thrones. 

I think I may just be accustomed to that because of DAYS ... Sometimes it seems like everyone in the town is related to every one else in the town. Edit to add: elsewhere I made a jokè. OMG, does this mean Billy Flynn is playing Daniel Goddard?!!

Edited June 22Jun 22 by Contessa Donatella

5 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

I don't know the Susan character yet, but man, everything you're confused about feels very familiar to when I started. It feels like everyone in Springfield has either hooked up with, married or had children with everyone else in Springfield. The family ties are very confusing and you almost have to study it like the Game of Thrones. 

LOL...well, they had. But when you grow up with it, so to speak, it's just what you know. 

Then again, maybe I'm just used to it---on ATWT, a lot of family members slept with the same people. But some of that is also about having kept core families for years.

Edited June 22Jun 22 by P.J.

On 6/19/2025 at 10:00 PM, chrisml said:

I get the Lemay part. I thought Michael Malone's first half of his initial tenure on OLTL was brilliant. When he goes to AW, it's as if every bad habit follows him. I don't think Pamela Long understood Santa Barbara or what made it so special. She ruined everything that made it so unique. She was paired with Paul Rauch who was a disaster so it was just a mess. Rauch followed Conboy on SB and Conboy followed Rauch on GL.

I so hated Malone at AW but then I learned that supposedly everything he pitched got shot down. So  now I give him not a pass but some small amount of grace. 

Happy Sunday morning!  A few more chapter summaries from Kim's book:

Chapter 14 - Kim admits that publicists were always on their toes with her because they never knew what would come out of her mouth. She always respected honesty and we’ll always get it back from her. She goes into what she thinks killed GL behind the scenes. She always loved her job, but 2004 is when everything changed. Ratings were down and P&G execs did two things in response - change out leadership and cut budget. So the new EP is Ellen Wheeler and Kim said she first noticed that she was younger than Kim (Kim was now 50 at the time). She said it was like going to a doctor that is younger than you and it just doesn’t feel right. She had always worked for older bosses, and this was a painful reminder that anyone can be replaced with something younger and cheaper. She got along well with Ellen in the beginning, but that soon changed because Ellen didn’t understand the show or the Reva character. Ellen changed many stories, sets and cast members, and started tinkering around with Reva. Kim didn’t like this at all, because she was also at a point in life where all her kids were adults and her job at GL was her main focus in life again. Ellen got rid of many veteran actors on the show because of the budget cuts. She took Jerry, Marj and Maureen off contract so their salaries were not guaranteed, which forced them out. Ellen tried to change the show and focus on younger characters and be hip, edgy and cool, which did not go over well with the fans who have watched for 20/30/40 years. Kim then says she wishes they would have had a male EP instead because they would have been able to keep Kim in line better than Ellen/a woman. Ellen started putting her stamp on everything and when the writer’s strike hit, she was now directing, producing AND writing, even though she wasn’t part of the Writers Guild. Kim could tell when it was Ellen’s scripts because she clearly had favorite characters and Reva wasn’t one of them. Reva was placed on the backburner which upset fans who would write in asking where Reva was, and of course that hurt/pissed off Kim. Ellen didn’t listen to the actors and she enjoyed splitting up well-established supercouples and belittling relationships that fans had invested in for years - she gives the examples of Harley and Gus and then calls out “… and most especially the debacle of Josh and Cassie!”. Kim viewed Ellen as the paid hatchet whose mission orders were to save money and produce the show as cheaply as possible, and Kim said she succeeded. She acknowledges that times were changing and the daytime industry itself was seeing ratings declines, so the writing was on the wall that GL was not going to survive much longer. She said maybe she would have enjoyed working with Ellen in a different period of time, but knowing that everything Ellen was doing was leading to the demise of GL, working for her was the hardest experience of her career. Any time Kim walked up to the the 5th floor where Ellen’s office was, people scattered. If Reva wasn’t on air for a few days, she would go talk to Ellen and bitch. Kim would always sit and listen to Ellen while she justified her decisions, and most of the time Ellen would end up crying. The more Ellen would cry, the more Kim wanted to lay into her. She is the EP of a show that was struggling to stay afloat and all she could do was cry - that was not ok with Kim!

Chapter 15 - the year 2007 was GL’s 70th anniversary and Kim admits that Ellen had a creative, innovative idea to do ‘day in the life of’ episodes where it focused on a single character. The actors loved doing these episodes because it gave an intimate peek into their characters’ lives and it was their own one-hour show. She explained Reva and Josh’s episode where they were supposed to go sign divorce papers but then changed their minds and ran off to the lighthouse, which she thought was a powerful episode. Another idea Ellen had for the anniversary was to tape a special episode showing the GL actors travel to Mississippi and help rebuild homes after Hurricane Katrina. Kim was very against this idea, not because she didn’t want to help Katrina victims, but she didn’t think fans wanted to see the actors in the GL timeslot, which would break the 4th wall and cross the line between fantasy and reality. Once they decided to make it a web series instead of airing it as a GL episode, Kim changed her mind and went, which made Ellen cry out of happiness. She says Ellen cried while EP more than Reva Shayne did in all her years on air. Kim says the experience in MS was incredible and they all enjoyed having the opportunity to help. She even said she bonded with Ellen that week, when normally she was always so guarded in New York.

She was surprised GL won best show and best writing Emmys in 2007, because she didn’t understand the kudos for their show. When 2008 came, Ellen had the idea of renaming the show “The New Guiding Light” and start the first episode as “Episode 1”, which Kim thought was distasteful and erasing their legacy. Apparently some of the GL execs hated when people mentioned how old GL was, and thankfully P&G said absolutely not to Ellen’s idea and the idea was nixed. But, Ellen still got her idea of a new opening approved and Kim refers to it as “…the one with a bunch of hairy-ass arms reaching and grabbing at other hairy-ass arms! With a series of voice-overs uttering the famous line ‘There is a destiny…’”.

From there, they changed to handheld cameras and 4-wall sets, which everyone hated. The sets were so small and with all the crew in each set filming, they were always hot and had no where to move. Then they decided on location shots in Peapack and everything went to hell from there. Lighting, makeup, hair, production - everything looked horrible and she called it cruel and unusual punishment for a 53-year old woman on TV. She’s seen better amateur videos on YouTube. Kim started getting obsessed with the declining quality and would watch the show everyday, watch other soaps to see how much better they were doing than GL and then say GL was the biggest piece of sh!t she’s seen, total dreck. The goal went from producing quality programming to see how fast they could get episodes in the can. She said ultimately things got better after fans complained and they got better with lighting and moved the cameras back so they weren’t so in-your-face. She struggles because on one hand, some people view Ellen as a hero for getting two more years out of GL which meant more stories for fans and steady work/salaries for cast and crew, but on the other hand she was so embarrassed by how awful it truly was.

Chapter 16 - mostly an overview of soap contracts and how she negotiated them. The big story: in May 2006, she was nearing the end of the first year of her 3-year contract, and the EP and P&G execs brought her in and told her she was getting a pay cut. She said absolutely not, a contract is a contract and she’ll be happy to talk about a pay cut at the end of her 3-year contract. They told her if she refuses, then they’d be forced to fire 8 actors from the show to make up for it. She thought that was ridiculous because even half her salary wasn’t big enough to make up 8 other salaries. She ultimately said no and told them if they needed money more than her Reva character, then they could fire her after her 52-week cycle was up. Their decision ironically was due on the day of the 2006 Daytime Emmys, so she was dreading that awards show the entire time, but they never came back and fired her that day - she dodged a bullet. As it turns out, she was being used as a decoy because the producers were planning to fire the 8 actors all along (take them off contract and force reduced day fees if they stayed). They wanted to use Kim’s refusal as a scapegoat, and the story ‘leaked’ that certain actors refused a pay cut, so other actors were forced out. The press kept asking if it was Zimmer and soap boards got nasty and tried to make it a scandal. She said most of the affected actors believed her, but to her surprise there were some that didn’t and thought Kim was to blame. She didn’t give names… She said the experience left her feeling violated and angry.

25 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Chapter 16 - mostly an overview of soap contracts and how she negotiated them. The big story: in May 2006, she was nearing the end of the first year of her 3-year contract, and the EP and P&G execs brought her in and told her she was getting a pay cut. She said absolutely not, a contract is a contract and she’ll be happy to talk about a pay cut at the end of her 3-year contract. They told her if she refuses, then they’d be forced to fire 8 actors from the show to make up for it. She thought that was ridiculous because even half her salary wasn’t big enough to make up 8 other salaries. She ultimately said no and told them if they needed money more than her Reva character, then they could fire her after her 52-week cycle was up. Their decision ironically was due on the day of the 2006 Daytime Emmys, so she was dreading that awards show the entire time, but they never came back and fired her that day - she dodged a bullet.

 

As it turns out, she was being used as a decoy because the producers were planning to fire the 8 actors all along (take them off contract and force reduced day fees if they stayed). They wanted to use Kim’s refusal as a scapegoat, and the story ‘leaked’ that certain actors refused a pay cut, so other actors were forced out. The press kept asking if it was Zimmer and soap boards got nasty and tried to make it a scandal. She said most of the affected actors believed her, but to her surprise there were some that didn’t and thought Kim was to blame. She didn’t give names… She said the experience left her feeling violated and angry.

And, here, is just one of the times when KZ's pov does not necessarily line up with facts.

KZ was never used as a decoy. What they did lines up with things that have happened in other industries, like the airlines. The idea is that everyone is asked at the same, or close to the same, time, to make a sacrifice, by taking a pay cut THE SAME CUT ACROSS THE BOARD, basically, the younger actors didn't actually make enough money to be treated the same, but everyone else, same. The execs took their cuts first, up front. Then they took their sad pitch to the people. Every single person except one said yes. No bullying, no pressuring, no tricks, everything up front & above board. It was known all along that KZ was the only person to say no. But, make no mistake it was not known until she did it & said it. She writes as if they knew she would do & say what she did. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one tried to make it scandalous, it was on its own. Many fans looked at the situation & thought how unselfish so many people were being & wasn't that amazing & also loyal. Not much was discussed about KZ because after all, what could you say? Technically she had the right to do what she did. Full Stop. The End. But, I do not know anyone who thought she did it for the principle of the thing. If you had suggested that, people would have laughed. People who were talking about principles were talking about Jerry, Grant, Mikey, Beth, etc. 

 

Edited June 22Jun 22 by Contessa Donatella

Kim has every right to her feelings, and maybe even some valid points. But as a fan, GL's decline started way before '04. That's just the breaking point for her. And it's not professional to go and complain to your EP because (god forbid) your character isn't on "in a couple of episodes".

I don't know how she thinks Wheeler "tinkered" with the character of Reva. But good grief, every town bicycle eventually needs new tires.

The Inside the Light idea was fresh, but should've been used more sparingly. And it really was insulting to "wrap up" Ross in one. RME. Isn't she wrong about the Katrina rebuilding? They may have also shown it on the web, but there was an entire episode devoted to it, which I thought aired during sweeps, which I thought was a mistake.

God, I hated that "hairy arms" opening. HATED. 

If what she wrote about Ellen was true about crying, I don't blame Kim for being annoyed with that.   You're the boss... you need to keep it together.. or else you need to resign so someone competent and in control of their emotions can take over as EP. 

And Kim's statement about preferring a male EP is more typical then not for women.  I know that in the tech world, females younger then me will switch jobs in order to work for a male boss.