34 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Agreed. As much as I love Marland, I could see Potter's point---another year of wandering through Carrie's alters would've been pointless. (Shades of the Sonni/Solita story, which is just a mess, though that's due in part to the writers strike.) I just wish they'd have been able to settle it amicably and keep working together. 

On this one I have to agree with Marland. There is something to be said for letting the writer & the actor involved at least finish the story. Personally, I think writers should have more say about content. 

7 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

On this one I have to agree with Marland. There is something to be said for letting the writer & the actor involved at least finish the story. Personally, I think writers should have more say about content.

I hear you, and don't totally disagree with you. We can only speculate, but it seems to me it would have been extremely difficult to continue much further with the Carrie story, even with a reintegrated personality. I mean, she killed two people (yes, it was her other personalities, but STILL), and Marland originally planned for her to kill a third (Jackie). Maybe he had some brilliant twist that would have kept her a viable character. It's possible. We'll never know now. 

23 hours ago, Maxim said:

Oh, Datalounge, the most most credible place in the world. 🤣

True indeed..however, with Malloy and others, if it smells like a fish, looks like a fish...chip on shoulder, drinking, too busy for a relationship, add in his Irish Catholic heritage and you could see where he might have been deep in the closet. 

9 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I hear you, and don't totally disagree with you. We can only speculate, but it seems to me it would have been extremely difficult to continue much further with the Carrie story, even with a reintegrated personality. I mean, she killed two people (yes, it was her other personalities, but STILL), and Marland originally planned for her to kill a third (Jackie). Maybe he had some brilliant twist that would have kept her a viable character. It's possible. We'll never know now. 

And Carrie (2) tried to kill Ross with a pair of scissors. Or at least wanted to. And I sure don't think there's any way he could've gotten the audience to forgive her killing Jackie, (even if Carrie Mowry was a bad recast). 

12 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I hear you, and don't totally disagree with you. We can only speculate, but it seems to me it would have been extremely difficult to continue much further with the Carrie story, even with a reintegrated personality. I mean, she killed two people (yes, it was her other personalities, but STILL), and Marland originally planned for her to kill a third (Jackie). Maybe he had some brilliant twist that would have kept her a viable character. It's possible. We'll never know now. 

Part of my opinion comes from "the way things used to be" and that was when the writer/creator had more agency & power. Back then, the writer/s of a soap were as close to being auteurs as soaps ever got in that direction. And, it's not a coincidence that back then our shows were more traditional & more character-driven. For every degree of change toward the execs having more power the further away we have gotten from what I consider to be something of an ideal. 

Despite what she has said about that role & how strongly we know he felt about it, you are correct when you say we will never know. That not knowing is inevitable. 

2 hours ago, Maxim said:

Thank you for providing that laugh for me... this is hilarious.🤣

You know things are bad when Kimmer is the grounded actor in these things, everyone is so over the top Kim thought she would have a rest day!

 

3 minutes ago, P.J. said:

And Carrie (2) tried to kill Ross with a pair of scissors. Or at least wanted to. And I sure don't think there's any way he could've gotten the audience to forgive her killing Jackie, (even if Carrie Mowry was a bad recast). 

As long as were saved from Marland's obsession with "therapy" as the answer to the world's ills.

19 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

You know things are bad when Kimmer is the grounded actor in these things, everyone is so over the top Kim thought she would have a rest day!

 

As long as were saved from Marland's obsession with "therapy" as the answer to the world's ills.

Well...there is that.  

I wish I could contribute to the 80s talk!  Maybe one day   

 

I’m up to November 4, 1996.

Oh wow, on October 8th and 9th we got a few scenes of Vanessa in bed talking to a doctor, not being able to move! However, it sounds like she’s getting special treatments from this doctor. I thought we lost Maeve for a long time, so it was a nice surprise to see her face for a bit.

Bill is having a hard time living at the house, with everything reminding him of his mother. So, he moves to the boarding house and gets incorporated further in the teen/20s set. He’s getting into fights though and having a hard time coping with all the change.

Company got upgraded! And honestly, it looks cheap and the same haha. The whole opening night was random and chaotic:  Roger rigged the chandelier to come down on Bridget (why?), but she escaped from getting hurt thanks to Matt, and the party continues; then Matt gets into a very long, karate knife fight with some random guy in the middle of the dance floor that goes nowhere; Reva shows up alone ready to party and randomly spends most of an episode meeting, dancing and hanging out with J (so random); Rick and Abby almost have their first kiss but he stops it; and a bunch of extras are dancing out of sync to very muted music the entire night, which is very cringe to watch.

Quint is courting Nola again in hopes of getting back together. This is happening very slowly, like one episode every other week on average.

Bridget’s obsession over Hart is so cringe, I wish they gave her something else to do. I also find it cringe they have two different courtships happening between 20-something men and high school girls (Marcus/Dahlia; Zachary/Michelle).

Buzz is walking around town with bombs and threatening to blow things up. I think they think this is funny, but it’s not since it’s real. He stopped the bomb two seconds before he, Reva and the diner blew up, and then he goes to Spaulding Mansion and threatens to blow everyone up, like it’s a funny joke.  Weird.

Ok, October 16 was the last episode where McTavish is credited. October 17th was the start of Annie’s intervention. Which, btw, was SO good. Everyone did a great job, but Watros really was amazing in those scenes. O’Leary stood out as well. Reva had NO business being there though. Nobody should have allowed her to be there considering she’s the trigger for Annie’s addiction. She was also a b!tch to her during it all. And a distraught Annie tells Rick about one of Blake’s baby being his - good reveal to Rick!

Then Annie detoxing at the cabin with Phillip - great scenes there too!  I really like the friendship they have together and Phillip’s support during the whole thing. Watros again was amazing and in particular I enjoyed the direction and camera angles, especially as she’s sobbing outside in Phillip’s arms and again in the shower, fully clothed.

So Alan was A. Spaulding - shocker *yawns*. I’m just glad that’s over now, which I guess the new writers were happy to end too now that McTavish is gone. Same with the 5th Street stuff, seems like they just quickly finished that. Now I’m excited to see what the new bigger storylines are to come…

Oh, Halloween night had some great cliffhangers! Dinah gets trapped in silo rain bin, not knowing that Roger set it up to trap her. It starts to storm and rain is collecting, while she’s screaming out for Peter, who is all alone with Roger now. Bridget/Hart get a flat tire and are now helpless and unable to get back to the farm. Annie/Phillip return home from the detox cabin and walk in on Reva/Josh dancing with the kids cheering them on.  And finally, Blake is alone at the cabin and starts to go into labor as the storm rolls through, while Dr. Margaret tells Ross and Rick that one of the babies isn’t getting enough nutrients and may be in trouble. Rick, now knowing he’s one of the fathers, gets worried but can’t talk to Ross about it, who still thinks he’s the father of both. I can’t wait to see what happens next!

7 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

It was that Carrie story. I think he was too much invested in it. He had stalled Alan and Hope as a happily married couple living in a sweet little cottage. The Mark Evans storyline was a bust. So definitely not his best work. I think the most popular thing during that era was Nola and Quint and that wasn't to everyone's taste. And yes, it seemed obvious he was setting up a Rita return. 

Didn't someone here say that Marland's soap bibles are in a library somewhere? I wonder if his planned stories that would have been after his departure are in those.

The EP definitely makes a difference. Yes, he might have had a big problem with Kobe. His EP at ATWT in that era when the ratings went up was Robert Calhoun. Many people credit him with turning GL around after a disappointing period that lasted almost a decade.

I do wonder how much a new producer who could have worked in tandem with Marland might have made a difference in my enjoyment. 

The biggest issues for me are casting, lack of energy, and character misuse. So many new characters just seemed inert and lethargic. Mark Pinter was a poor choice for a character who should have been as sexual and dynamic as Mark was intended to be. Josh and Vanessa were wasted in heel/plot mover roles. The couples often lacked chemistry, aside from Quint and Nola. Jennifer Cook was such a poor choice for Morgan that it completely wrecked the character makeup as well as her chemistry with Kelly. And then there were relationships like Tony/Hilary which on paper probably should have been compelling (the tough guy who is afraid of being hurt and the woman who is trying to think out her relationship in a very cautious, early '80s way, while her heart is with Tony) fall flat to me, as they just talk and talk and talk (like Carrie and Ross before she cracked up) and I don't find Tony in any way likeable. For me it wouldn't have been a choice - I would have never let Derek go compared to Tony (or most of the men on the canvas at that time). 

Some of this was fixed after Marland left (I seem to remember less of Tony haranguing Nola), but of course many other elements fell apart. 

One of the biggest changes I would have made was with the Amanda/Mark/Jennifer triangle. If Stephen Yates had been willing to stay, I would have had Ben and Jennifer fall in love during Amanda's extended breakdown. The whole thrust of the story of Amanda having passionate feelings for Jennifer's new husband falls flat for me because all the relationships are new or relatively new and I also don't believe in the chemistry between those involved. There would have been higher stakes in Jennifer, who had been struggling and downcast most of her life, falling in love with a gorgeous, funny, warm, caring artist...who was married to the daughter she had just reconnected with. When the truth comes out, you could also have Morgan regress into her wild child days, shattered both by her suffocating marriage and her mother falling off the pedestal. And no matter how "nice" Alan was meant to be at this time, I think he would have exploded at his old love being involved with his daughter's husband. This would also cause some conflict for Hope given her past with Ben.

 

I know Leslie Denniston was not well liked but she's the only one (minus a few Zimmer moments where she's allowed to shine) who resembles an actual human being in the whole Cain/Reva/Kyle/Maeve storyline. I really like her and she's the only who I think is giving a credible performance. It must have been hard when she's acting opposite Larkin Malloy who is terrible. I find him near unwatchable. Every time he's in a scene with someone, he always acts as if he's about to headbutt someone when he wants to show emotion/emphasis. In this scene, the writers again mention the engagement ring and the deed. In three week's worth of episodes, I've now heard about those two items around 25 times. I wish I were joking. I don't think Another World mentioned the Red Swan as much. If I made up a drinking game over the ring and deed, I'd have died from alcohol poisoning. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Mark Pinter was a poor choice for a character who should have been as sexual and dynamic as Mark was intended to be. Josh and Vanessa were wasted in heel/plot mover roles.

That story was SUCH a stinker. Really surprising considering how good a casting director they had and then they gave us Pinter and Cook. Cook apparently was a calculated move to make Morgan a more conventional beauty (Geraldine Court complained about it). But I don't get the choice to cast Pinter. If you're going to have a story about not only two women fighting over a man, he's also a grifter with a long history of fooling women, he better have some freakin' charisma. He didn't have to be drop-dead gorgeous, but he had to have SOMETHING that made you believe these women were so drawn to him, and I'm sorry, Pinter didn't have that. The story made both women look like idiots.

(It could have been worse. I've heard that the original plan was for both Amanda and Jennifer to become pregnant).

This, I believe, is a case where casting could have made all the difference. If they had the right actor playing Mark, it might have worked.

We have to give Long credit for taking Josh and Vanessa off that track and making them much better drawn characters.

28 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

And no matter how "nice" Alan was meant to be at this time, I think he would have exploded at his old love being involved with his daughter's husband. This would also cause some conflict for Hope given her past with Ben.

I have never understood why they spent so much time portraying Alan and Jennifer's past as some kind of transformative experience and then...did nothing with it. At all. They acted like distant relations.

They did so little with Hope outside of her relationship with Alan. That's why it was so easy to yeet her out of show.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by DeeVee

24 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

I wish I could contribute to the 80s talk!  Maybe one day   

Unless you're a completist, I don't know if you want to subject yourself to the Cain storyline. It's awful. If you watch the last two minutes of the video I posted above (talking about the lack of quality control), that should be enough. You've endured enough bad storylines with your 95/96 watch of GL. It was someone else's turn. 🤣

 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

You know things are bad when Kimmer is the grounded actor in these things, everyone is so over the top Kim thought she would have a rest day!

 The acting is just so over top that it's mentally exhausting to watch the show. There are a few laugh out loud over the top moments, but most of it is just annoying and grating. The fact that no director or EP stepped forward to tell some of these actors to dial it back is astonishing to me. 

20 minutes ago, chrisml said:

... In this scene, the writers again mention the engagement ring and the deed. In three week's worth of episodes, I've now heard about those two items around 25 times. I wish I were joking. I don't think Another World mentioned the Red Swan as much. If I made up a drinking game over the ring and deed, I'd have died from alcohol poisoning. 

Now, this is new. AW fans have the Red Swan. AMC fans have Libidizone. Y&R fans have the reliquary. DAYS fans have the prisms. And, now, GL fans have the deed & the engagement ring. Anyone know any others?

6 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Unless you're a completist, I don't know if you want to subject yourself to the Cain storyline. It's awful. If you watch the last two minutes of the video I posted above (talking about the lack of quality control), that should be enough. You've endured enough bad storylines with your 95/96 watch of GL. It was someone else's turn. 🤣

Haha I do tend to be a completist, so we'll see, although it'll take forever I'm sure.  I actually just watched that clip you posted and I was about to post, asking what happens next! LOL It was a bit cheesy for sure, but curious what happens with Claire after he throws her over 😂

15 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Now, this is new. AW fans have the Red Swan. AMC fans have Libidizone. Y&R fans have the reliquary. DAYS fans have the prisms. And, now, GL fans have the deed & the engagement ring. Anyone know any others?

GH: The Ice Princess

Ryan's Hope: Merit Kara

One Life to Live: The City of Eterna!

OMG, you've reminded me of the reliquary story on Y&R. Every time a soap starts an art theft story, I think, "Oh, God, we're in for 6 months of torture." The 1986 GL episodes being uploaded now are the beginning of their art theft story. 😩