1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Beverlee was on a whole other level from Kim. It's not like they were in competition with each other.

I get the feeling that Kim had a slight problem with the super-professional, serious cast members who just wanted everyone to be prepared and do the work, as she seems to like having fun on set. (She's made a few cracks about Chris Bernau being like that). Bev was definitely one of those. But they didn't work together that much.

Yeah, they made her manic and also much weaker. She always had a vulnerability, but wanting to kill herself over that guy? No way. Not only that, he didn't leave her! She insisted he marry Maeve.

When they did the tribute to Bert/Charita, the compilation of scenes with her showed how much the cast had been almost totally turned over in a relatively short period of time. Nearly every shot was of her by herself because most people she had worked with had been fired, left or been replaced. I assume they couldn't show her with people who hadn't been replaced, like Don Stewart, Elvera Roussel, or Robert Newman because they would have had to pay them for using their clips.

It's dreadful to watch. Like she had no connection to the current show.

I can see Kim being that way.

Well, Kyle didn't have to say yes. LOL. The suicide attempt feels plot-driven. I don't know if even Long could've made it work. She'd spent so much time trying to make Reva and Kyle into a couple, it feels odd to just have them give up. Not to mention how odd it is to have Maeve agree to marry him.

Re Charita---surely they could've at least tried  finding clips with who was still there. Maybe they wouldn't have been "big" moments, but surely she'd interacted with Ross, Vanessa, and Henry. Vanessa had dated Ed, FCOL. But Mo and Rick were there---surely they could've bothered to find some clips of her with them (and they did interact a fair amount) and used them. And with Ed they could've found some shot of her talking to him and just not cut to whoever was playing Ed in the clip. That to me is what feels lazy---they had more than a year to figure it out, and they went with a bunch of photos. If you were sort of centering it on Rick anyway---then find clips with them and use 'em.

6 hours ago, P.J. said:

I rewatched these episodes---they broke my heart. Somehow, Nola had seen Vanessa leave the hospital, and follows her home, and Maeve just lets out this primal scream---chills went down my spine. And knowing the history between them---never quite liking the other and always getting on each other's nerves (to put it mildly)---makes it a much richer to have them put it all aside in the moment and be family to each other.

I've never seen/heard what Maeve thought of the story itself, but she did want a break, so it's not like she was fired and then brought back.

Yes, Vanessa could be this stubborn and unwilling to ask for help. She'd pretty much always been an "I can do this on my own" type of woman, although when she first came to town, she would still run to Henry. But after she met Billy, she stopped relying on her father. It's part of the reason she (briefly) got addicted to pills after Bill's birth---she was determined to take care of him all by herself and became obsessed with the idea she was the only one who could. Of course, nothing before to this extreme.

I should say, there's no way (IMO) they could've told this story---Vanessa letting her loved ones thinking she'd died---if her father Henry had still been alive. She never would've been able to do that to him. And it does chafe that she's letting Bill believe it, when her mantra had been all about protecting him since the day he was born.

I honestly don't recall what I thought about it at the time. But now I'm thrilled she's free of Matt at least. LOL.

Aww, yeah it's very heartbreaking and I mostly enjoyed the Nola/Vanessa scenes because they finally let their walls down and came together in a beautiful moment. So Nola was at the hospital already and bumped into Vanessa, who had MRI papers that fell out of her hand and Nola went down to pick them up and asked her what was going on. Later, Vanessa confided in her about her disease. Then, Nola told Zachary on the beach (he prodded her and already alluded to knowing something was going on with Van), and then Vanessa found out she told him and got a little upset. Now, however, Nola is strangely absent while everyone is mourning her death. I'm curious if Nola will actually tell people about her MRI results. I would assume so. Only Nola, Rick, Roger and Zachary know anything, although there is the MRI results letter from the mail that everyone has missed seeing at home. I'm sure it'll all come out at some point.

But... I just saw the next episode and the opening already cut Vanessa out and added Dahlia and Zachary. I guess Maeve is gone for a long time  That will break my heart seeing the town continue to mourn her and assume she's dead. I can't wait to see her return though, and I have to imagine feelings will be torn between loving that she's alive and being very angry she did all of this.

While I hate what Vanessa is doing, I'm happy to hear it's not totally against her character. I think you're right, had Henry still been around, she wouldn't put him through this. I'm still surprised she is with Bill, though. I get her feelings on Matt, because she wants him to move on, but still very heartbreaking.

I'm glad this was Maeve's choice to have a break vs. being fired. 

 

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I can't fully remember, but I don't think they tried to get Beth Chamberlin back. I think Laibson/McTavish likely saw Beth as old news and wanted to move Philip on; either that or have her return only when Philip was closely tied to a new woman.

Thanks as always for these recaps. I think I had stopped watching around this time and mostly kept up by reading in the soap magazines.

Bridget's degradation was horrible to watch, as the character had grown so much over the years and was clearly regressed just to be a foil for a "hot" couple viewers had zero investment in. 

Interesting, so I'm curious to see who they eventually pair Phillip with. They're flirting with a Phillip/Annie pairing, but I'm not sure if they'll go that route with the Jeva drama, her growing pill addiction, and Rick's past with her. 

Ugh, yeah I'm so sad to see Bridget do a total 180 in the last couple weeks. She has always been a strong character from what I've seen, but now she's just bending over backwards to get Hart to love her and it reeks of desperation. Yeah, sure, this new Hart is eye candy, but I'm already tired of seeing Hart/Dinah have sex all over Springfield and the Cayman Islands haha.

13 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Aww, yeah it's very heartbreaking and I mostly enjoyed the Nola/Vanessa scenes because they finally let their walls down and came together in a beautiful moment. So Nola was at the hospital already and bumped into Vanessa, who had MRI papers that fell out of her hand and Nola went down to pick them up and asked her what was going on. Later, Vanessa confided in her about her disease. Then, Nola told Zachary on the beach (he prodded her and already alluded to knowing something was going on with Van), and then Vanessa found out she told him and got a little upset. Now, however, Nola is strangely absent while everyone is mourning her death. I'm curious if Nola will actually tell people about her MRI results. I would assume so. Only Nola, Rick, Roger and Zachary know anything, although there is the MRI results letter from the mail that everyone has missed seeing at home. I'm sure it'll all come out at some point.

But... I just saw the next episode and the opening already cut Vanessa out and added Dahlia and Zachary. I guess Maeve is gone for a long time  That will break my heart seeing the town continue to mourn her and assume she's dead. I can't wait to see her return though, and I have to imagine feelings will be torn between loving that she's alive and being very angry she did all of this.

While I hate what Vanessa is doing, I'm happy to hear it's not totally against her character. I think you're right, had Henry still been around, she wouldn't put him through this. I'm still surprised she is with Bill, though. I get her feelings on Matt, because she wants him to move on, but still very heartbreaking.

I'm glad this was Maeve's choice to have a break vs. being fired. 

Maeve makes a few sporadic appearances, but returns full-time the next spring/summer. She's back in time to see Bill and Michelle graduate, although she skulks around town and wasn't going to tell anyone she was alive. She comes back wearing this HUGE hat---which was a throwback to the old Vanesaa. lol.

Edited June 6Jun 6 by P.J.

7 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Maeve makes a few sporadic appearances, but returns full-time the next spring/summer. She's back in time to see Bill and Michelle graduate, although she skulks around town and wasn't going to tell anyone she was alive. She comes back wearing this HUGE hat---which was a throwback to the old Vanesaa. lol.

Oh good, so I don't have to wait too long haha. I'm glad she cares about seeing Bill graduate. I'm guessing I'm in for a bumpy ride between Bill and Matt, if he's going to be his caretaker? Who else could it be, maybe Josh?

15 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Forbes also likely got the primetime career Zimmer wanted - never a huge star, admittedly, but a stalwart, able to dip in and out when she saw fit and generally not paying an industry price.

That's on Kimmer. As someone posted above...she was offered roles in pilots but she would be part of an ensemble or supporting. She didn't want that so she came back to GL. I don't know what she thought would happen..someone offering her "Here's Kimmer!" or The "Zimmer Comedy Powerhouse Hour" variety show..but her housefrau fans did not have the same pull in HW as they did on the soaps. Forbes and Watros knew that you had to take small parts to get noticed ands start a career in primetime.

I know she was in consideration for the wife in Evening Shade, but when you go up against Marilou Henner, the soap diva looses. I could see her frustrated in a role like that, where she has to be the understanding wife with a bit of sass, but she could have made it work, if it wasnt for her huge ego.  I think it would have been an issue haveing all the powerhouse comedy actors surrounding...(lets face it..Alice Ghostly woudl have wiped the floor with her...) but it would have been a good launching padd.

22 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

Oh good, so I don't have to wait too long haha. I'm glad she cares about seeing Bill graduate. I'm guessing I'm in for a bumpy ride between Bill and Matt, if he's going to be his caretaker? Who else could it be, maybe Josh?

I didn't rewatch that period, so I'm not really sure how much Bill is on. I recall something about him living at the boardinghouse. I think Van made Matt his guardian, and why she didn't name Josh would be a mystery to me, other than the HW decided they needed to keep Bill in Matt's sphere. Nola is also his aunt, although they don't know each other well, and Van wouldn't have trusted her anyway. There's Dinah---but she's unreliable. Billy gets out of jail around NYE.

28 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

That's on Kimmer. As someone posted above...she was offered roles in pilots but she would be part of an ensemble or supporting. She didn't want that so she came back to GL. I don't know what she thought would happen..someone offering her "Here's Kimmer!" or The "Zimmer Comedy Powerhouse Hour" variety show..but her housefrau fans did not have the same pull in HW as they did on the soaps. Forbes and Watros knew that you had to take small parts to get noticed ands start a career in primetime.

I know she was in consideration for the wife in Evening Shade, but when you go up against Marilou Henner, the soap diva looses. I could see her frustrated in a role like that, where she has to be the understanding wife with a bit of sass, but she could have made it work, if it wasnt for her huge ego.  I think it would have been an issue haveing all the powerhouse comedy actors surrounding...(lets face it..Alice Ghostly woudl have wiped the floor with her...) but it would have been a good launching padd.

I could understand her being frustrated by the fact that she'd been in the business 10+ years at that point, and probably couldn't even get in the door. But then again, she'd already gone out for pilot season once (that we know of) and she and  her agent knew a 35-ish woman had a very difficult time in Hollywood. I know she did a few guest spots, but other than Designing Women, nothing I saw--not even a Murder She Wrote, and that show had tons of ex-soapers on it. I mean, God bless Marilu Henner, but even having been on Taxi, she couldn't get arrested for years either.

28 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I know she was in consideration for the wife in Evening Shade, but when you go up against Marilou Henner, the soap diva looses. I could see her frustrated in a role like that, where she has to be the understanding wife with a bit of sass, but she could have made it work, if it wasnt for her huge ego. 

Whoa. She should have fought like hell to get that. Was it the greatest show ever? No, but it had a fantastic cast and was practically guaranteed to last multiple seasons because of its star power. Could have certainly led to bigger and better things. If it had flopped she could have always gone back to soaps.

Judith Light broke through on a sitcom where she was basically second banana to Tony Danza. That grew into a very busy and distinguished career. The woman is still regularly booked to this day.

50 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I didn't rewatch that period, so I'm not really sure how much Bill is on. I recall something about him living at the boardinghouse. I think Van made Matt his guardian, and why she didn't name Josh would be a mystery to me, other than the HW decided they needed to keep Bill in Matt's sphere. Nola is also his aunt, although they don't know each other well, and Van wouldn't have trusted her anyway. There's Dinah---but she's unreliable. Billy gets out of jail around NYE.

Definitely wouldn't trust Dinah right now haha.  But that's great to know Billy comes back soon!  I'm excited for that. If he's at the boardinghouse, then I guess he does get closer to Nola perhaps, and then he'll be around Peter/Bridget and J, who is currently in his orbit along with Michelle and Dahlia, and Marcus is at the boardinghouse, so maybe they go the teenage story route most of this time until Billy gets back.

Edited June 6Jun 6 by alwaysAMC

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Billy gets out of jail around NYE.

Billy just showed up for Vanessa's memorial (Sept 9, '96), which is so nice!  My first time seeing him like this outside of random clips from the past. He's out of jail for 24 hours, so not long. It's good to see him with the family.

Kim Zimmer could have had a nice career as a supporting actress in Hollywood, but that does not appear to be what she wanted. That's fine, but in the eighties, she was not going to have many options as a leading actress. The eighties were brutal for a performer like her.  Her one big film role lasted a minute or two. Even while she was on GL, she should have been doing episodic television. Was her agent that incompetent or was she just bad at auditioning? Her episode of "Designing Women" was quite popular and was discussed at the time for its subject matter, but she never followed up on it. It's bizarre to me. 

41 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Kim Zimmer could have had a nice career as a supporting actress in Hollywood, but that does not appear to be what she wanted. That's fine, but in the eighties, she was not going to have many options as a leading actress. The eighties were brutal for a performer like her.  Her one big film role lasted a minute or two. Even while she was on GL, she should have been doing episodic television. Was her agent that incompetent or was she just bad at auditioning? Her episode of "Designing Women" was quite popular and was discussed at the time for its subject matter, but she never followed up on it. It's bizarre to me. 

I would be fascinated to see the GL episode counts from that time, if they existed. Six years seems like a long time, but Reva was front burner 24/7. I don't see how she could've done episodic tv. The only breaks she really got were her maternity leaves. And it's not like even the late '90's when there were shows shooting in NY (well, mostly L&O).

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Billy just showed up for Vanessa's memorial (Sept 9, '96), which is so nice!  My first time seeing him like this outside of random clips from the past. He's out of jail for 24 hours, so not long. It's good to see him with the family.

Jordan and Robert have the best brother chemistry. 

"Jordan and Robert have the best brother chemistry. "

They certainly did!  And that chemistry worked no matter who served as the protagonist in a given scene or story.  A shame that a full-blown story was never developed for those two.  Wouldn't have needed to be adversarial, either.  Maybe a serious, unexpected, long-term outside threat, business or personal, to one of the brothers with the other coming to his aid.

 

 

 

I wonder if Linda Bloodworth-Thomason had Kim in mind for any of her other characters/series.

If they intended Allison Sugarbaker (Julia Duffy's character) to be more in line with who Suzanne was/Delta Burke's portrayal-persona, then I think Kim would have aced that. Yes, it would have been odd, Kim having previously played a different character (from a different family), but Designing Women wouldn't have been the first show with that issue.

Or maybe Kim could have played Beth Broderick's role on Hearts Afire. Or Patricia Heaton's role on Women of the House.

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

"Jordan and Robert have the best brother chemistry. "

They certainly did!  And that chemistry worked no matter who served as the protagonist in a given scene or story.  A shame that a full-blown story was never developed for those two.  Wouldn't have needed to be adversarial, either.  Maybe a serious, unexpected, long-term outside threat, business or personal, to one of the brothers with the other coming to his aid.

Well, they usually weren't on the show at the time for long until the late 90's. But yeah, they really deserved a story centered on them, and not through the lens of Reva.