2 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Well I guess it was the "Smiley" Jane Elliot who showed up to Jerry Ver Dorn's fan club luncheon.

Jerry verDorn himself on The Locher Room said that he never knew which version of Jane he’d get. It was clear that he meant the actress, not character. I never implied anything else. I posted about what I personally witnessed, which goes along with what Jerry said. They obviously respected each other but that doesn’t mean everything was smooth sailing. 
Speaking of Jerry’s fan club luncheons, they were great! I went to 2 of them. (Not the one Jane was at). Marie Lukasik, Jerry’s fan club president, was a friend of mine. She could get members of Jerry’s fan club into the studio to watch a taping. Thus my encounter watching Jane’s antics. 

12 minutes ago, TEdgeofNight said:

Speaking of Jerry’s fan club luncheons, they were great! I went to 2 of them. (Not the one Jane was at). Marie Lukasik, Jerry’s fan club president, was a friend of mine. She could get members of Jerry’s fan club into the studio to watch a taping. Thus my encounter watching Jane’s antics. 

I think it was terrifc how gracious Jerry and his wife were with the fans and those luncheons

Now is it possible that Jane blew up because there were visitors on the set that day (as you witnessed). Because one of the reasons Soap Opera tours were rare, is because actor don't like many people on the set - as it detracts from their concentration when a doing a scene. Maybe Jane was doing a very important scene that day, and no one told her there are visitors on the set watching her perform. 

Edited April 20Apr 20 by TheyStartedOnSoaps

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

The obvious succesor to Roger was Diane. Definitely a mistake to kill her off.

As for the teen stories--we have all complained about them. But from those stories evolved some major characters, like Josh and Nola.

Am I wrong in remembering that Sofia Landon-Geier wanted to leave, but was surprised that Diane was killed?

It might've made more sense in the end to kill off Andy for the murder mystery, which could've involved nearly all the same characters. Then again, Andy was connected to Holly and Barbara. At some point, they could've been reintroduced. And recasting Landon was bound to be difficult.

What did GL submit the year that ATWT won for Angel's rape storyline? Does anyone remember?

 

Edited April 20Apr 20 by chrisml

6 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Oh lord I remember poor JVD having to wear"matching" track suits with "Carrie Todd," (Marland had every character say her whole name, repeatedly...and drinking juice and..becoming boring (he hadnt quit got to the patriarch role yet so he came off as a typical boring Marland man..)  I think the problem also is...Elliot sparks no sexual chemistry..with anyone. For Carrie Todd to totally put a spell on Ross, they needed a sexy actress, and Elliot was not one.

That period seemed so averse to sex appeal. I was watching Trish's last scene yesterday (Vanessa is so sad, it breaks your heart a little), and Ross gives Trish a very passionate, tender goodbye kiss. I was reminded that Ross often was a passionate man. I assume the idea was that this Carrie was meant to be more cute than sexy because one of the Carrie alters represented her sexuality, but I do think that the Ross we knew would not have been so happy with just '40s style banter.

5 hours ago, P.J. said:

Vanessa knew Andy was married to and had abused Trish (which made her sleeping with him squeamish), but we didn't find that out until just before Trish came to town. I'm not sure when exactly Andy blew into town, but Trish doesn't show up until June/July of '81.

Critiques are always of their time, but I side-eye this one more than a little. You can't let the fans dictate story. And the irony of complaining about the "younger set" when that must include Nola, who ends up being one of GL's most beloved heroine  kind of proves Marland's point from that interview.

I do agree with one point, which IMO really plagued GL until it's finale---the inability to create new villains with legs. In the '80's with Roger gone and Alan's running in and out---Warren Andrews is not the answer. Maybe Ted LePlat wasn't either, but at least bringing him back (and I just saw an episode where Josh mentions that Andy is up for parole) would've played on established history. And it might've given Trish and Katie something to do, and kept them in town longer.

I will say, the one thing that might've given Andy a path to be redeemed somewhat, was his friendship with Hope. 

Thanks. The handling of Vanessa at that time always seemed to be whatever the plot demanded. If Marland had stayed I imagine she would have finally gotten around to bedding Floyd, Kelly, Justin and Mike.

(Vanessa/Justin could have made for a strong pairing, as Vanessa isn't far off early Jackie)

I often forget Warren was even meant to be a villain, although I know he did turn into a killer and held India hostage, or whatever went on. The main parts I remember with him when I watch his run is Alexandra's sassy friend, who I guess was meant to be in love with her (Henry/Katie, look out!). The show never really did have a good villain in those years, or for many years. Edmund in later years sort of worked, but the writing for him was such a mess and relied on DAM. If they hadn't taken Will Jeffries too far, he could have worked. 

And thanks for the answers about Hilary and Josh. You are right that Hilary could have been used to befriend anyone across the canvas. Of course, that's why she was killed...can't have that type of character on the show.

6 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Thanks for posting this! 

From what I recall, there were a couple of soap columnists who were big Marland admirers. One for certain was Michael Logan. The article that was posted recently with his comments on the GL 50th Anniversary tribute leaving out the Nola fantasies and making it sound like that was one of soap opera's finest achievements is a perfect example of his admiration for Marland.

Now, my thoughts on this article.

I know I've been shredding Marland quite a bit, but I think some of the criticism here is off. First of all, Alan and Hope had been married for a year, of course they were going to have major conflict. It's either that or have them back-burnered. Why would any fan want that? 

Was I, as a fan of the pairing, thrilled about the affair with Rita at the time? No, but you weren't supposed to be. It made perfect sense because it had been foreshadowed for AGES. Even going back to the Dobsons, I think even before they put Alan and Hope together. They had these scenes where they weren't exactly flirting, but they were very "simpatico." Alan and Rita were like two sides of the same coin: a bit narcissistic, sensual, both adoring living the "good life." Something stalwart members of the middle class like Ed or Hope never understood. Of course they were going to get together at some point.

In fact, if Kasdorf had not left the show, I am absolutely convinced that this would have been more than a passing affair story. It seems to me the plan was to have a long-term love triangle, kind of like Alice/Steve/Rachel on Another World. Alan truly loving sweet, faithful Hope while still being sexually drawn to Rita, and Rita wanting an upgrade in lifestyle through Alan. They seemed to be building it up in the soap mags (lots of pictures of the three characters together). That got cut off abruptly because of Kasdorf's exit so Alan and Hope were reunited fairly quickly, IMO.

The storyline to do with them that should have gotten raked over the coals was the absurd decision by Elizabeth to give custody of Philip to Jackie and Justin without telling Philip he was their son. Since Hope was on Elizabeth's side, it was the issue that caused a rift between Alan and Hope and gave him the excuse the step out on her. But it made no logical sense. (Neither did Diane blackmailing Ross to convince Alan to keep Philip out of his will because he wasn't his biological son. Alan could have left his money to a charity for homeless cats if he wanted to).

I don't disagree with her complaining about a lack of a Roger-type villain, but Andy was Roger Lite--abusive to women, a guy who gathered information for blackmail, etc., without the backstory and character connections Roger had. The obvious succesor to Roger was Diane. Definitely a mistake to kill her off.

I so agree about Diane. I do hope it was Sofia's choice to leave. If not, what a mistake. She is so compelling to watch and has so many layers even though on paper she should have been as much of a plot device as early Vanessa often was.

I have seen so little of Alan/Rita, but you make them sound like what could have been a fantastic pairing for Alan (although it couldn't have lasted even if Lenore had stayed, given their personalities). If story plans had to be cut short, that helps explain why Alan is at such a lull (wasn't Bernau also ill at this time or am I mistaken?). The focus on repairing his marriage to Hope is a bit flat, made worse by Marland draining all the life from Hope.

Who asked about the character of Gina? This is from 1984 (in spite of what the title says)

 

55 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I have seen so little of Alan/Rita, but you make them sound like what could have been a fantastic pairing for Alan (although it couldn't have lasted even if Lenore had stayed, given their personalities). If story plans had to be cut short, that helps explain why Alan is at such a lull (wasn't Bernau also ill at this time or am I mistaken?). The focus on repairing his marriage to Hope is a bit flat, made worse by Marland draining all the life from Hope.

The time period here was 1981. Alan and Hope were very front burner for almost that entire year. After Hope gives birth, the story is about the Diane/Joe Bradley murders. Because of evidence Diane had about Alan's association with Roger, Alan takes Hope and the baby out of the country. Mike gets to do the truth, justice, and the American way thing and tracks Alan down. Alan could have left Mike to die, but he didn't, and then he turned himself in. So Marland did a redemption arc for him. He paid for his crimes with Roger and went to jail. When he came out, he quit Spaulding. He and Hope (who forgave everything, yes, Marland never gave her anything significant to do outside of Alan) went to live in a smaller house and were on the back burner for a while. Alan and Mike were even friendly for a time. 

Then Marland abruptly left the show. I doubt he would have left Alan and Hope on the back burner. I'm pretty sure the plan was to bring back Rita. Originally, she was going to come back to cause trouble for Ed and Vanessa, but they realized that pairing wasn't working, so they brought in Maureen for Ed. They strongly hinted Rita was pregnant when she left town, and the thinking is she would have sashayed back to Springfield with a kid to blow up Ed and Maureen and Alan and Hope.

When new writers came in, they probably didn't want to bring back a character that was off the canvas before they started. Also, executive producer Allen Potter left soon after Marland. If he had still been there he might have pushed the new writers to bring back Rita. The writers before Pam Long took over started showing fissures in Alan and Hope's marriage and put Alan back in charge of Spaulding, so they obviously didn't want to keep them as happy and boring. When Gail Kobe took over as EP she wanted to get rid of a bunch of characters, including Hope, so they had Alan completely revert back to the way he was before he married Hope.

Bernau's first exit wasn't until 1983. I don't know if that was because of his illness. It was probably the end of his second 3 year contract so he might have just wanted to take a break.

1 minute ago, DeeVee said:

The time period here was 1981. Alan and Hope were very front burner for almost that entire year. After Hope gives birth, the story is about the Diane/Joe Bradley murders. Because of evidence Diane had about Alan's association with Roger, Alan takes Hope and the baby out of the country. Mike gets to do the truth, justice, and the American way thing and tracks Alan down. Alan could have left Mike to die, but he didn't, and then he turned himself in. So Marland did a redemption arc for him. He paid for his crimes with Roger and went to jail. When he came out, he quit Spaulding. He and Hope (who forgave everything, yes, Marland never gave her anything significant to do outside of Alan) went to live in a smaller house and were on the back burner for a while. Alan and Mike were even friendly for a time. 

Then Marland abruptly left the show. I doubt he would have left Alan and Hope on the back burner. I'm pretty sure the plan was to bring back Rita. Originally, she was going to come back to cause trouble for Ed and Vanessa, but they realized that pairing wasn't working, so they brought in Maureen for Ed. They strongly hinted Rita was pregnant when she left town, and the thinking is she would have sashayed back to Springfield with a kid to blow up Ed and Maureen and Alan and Hope.

When new writers came in, they probably didn't want to bring back a character that was off the canvas before they started. Also, executive producer Allen Potter left soon after Marland. If he had still been there he might have pushed the new writers to bring back Rita. The writers before Pam Long took over started showing fissures in Alan and Hope's marriage and put Alan back in charge of Spaulding, so they obviously didn't want to keep them as happy and boring. When Gail Kobe took over as EP she wanted to get rid of a bunch of characters, including Hope, so they had Alan completely revert back to the way he was before he married Hope.

Bernau's first exit wasn't until 1983. I don't know if that was because of his illness. It was probably the end of his second 3 year contract so he might have just wanted to take a break.

Thanks. I couldn't remember if he was off for a bit while in prison. 

I wonder if they would have recast Rita or if Lenore was willing to return.

The pregnancy fits with the later rumors they were going to make Gus her son with Alan.

17 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Then Marland abruptly left the show. I doubt he would have left Alan and Hope on the back burner. I'm pretty sure the plan was to bring back Rita. Originally, she was going to come back to cause trouble for Ed and Vanessa, but they realized that pairing wasn't working, so they brought in Maureen for Ed. They strongly hinted Rita was pregnant when she left town, and the thinking is she would have sashayed back to Springfield with a kid to blow up Ed and Maureen and Alan and Hope.

Was this when P&G asked the Dobsons to switch with Marland?

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

That period seemed so averse to sex appeal. I was watching Trish's last scene yesterday (Vanessa is so sad, it breaks your heart a little), and Ross gives Trish a very passionate, tender goodbye kiss. I was reminded that Ross often was a passionate man. I assume the idea was that this Carrie was meant to be more cute than sexy because one of the Carrie alters represented her sexuality, but I do think that the Ross we knew would not have been so happy with just '40s style banter.

Thanks. The handling of Vanessa at that time always seemed to be whatever the plot demanded. If Marland had stayed I imagine she would have finally gotten around to bedding Floyd, Kelly, Justin and Mike.

(Vanessa/Justin could have made for a strong pairing, as Vanessa isn't far off early Jackie)

I often forget Warren was even meant to be a villain, although I know he did turn into a killer and held India hostage, or whatever went on. The main parts I remember with him when I watch his run is Alexandra's sassy friend, who I guess was meant to be in love with her (Henry/Katie, look out!). The show never really did have a good villain in those years, or for many years. Edmund in later years sort of worked, but the writing for him was such a mess and relied on DAM. If they hadn't taken Will Jeffries too far, he could have worked. 

And thanks for the answers about Hilary and Josh. You are right that Hilary could have been used to befriend anyone across the canvas. Of course, that's why she was killed...can't have that type of character on the show.

In 1982, Vanessa is very much used to advance other plots. While it's not exactly out-of-character, she's markedly colder and more controlling. She does thaw a bit towards the end of the year. By the end of the year, she has mended some fences with Ross, which is nice to see. I do wonder where Marland would've taken Vanessa had he stayed. He'd reset both Nola and Ross...so he did like to give his gray characters a redemption. 

I've caught some more of Trish and early Trish/Ross, and can't help but think they mishandled them. It seems like Chris Bernau's exit kind of stymied the progression of their romance, as they now don't really have an outside enemy to fight against.

Warren started out as a slimy user, and somehow got involved with Alan, who used him to set up Ross on drug charges. He's then involved in trying to use the Dreaming Death research as a bio-weapon, (or something, I'm not revisiting that RME story to get deets...lol) and then he's Alex's henchman who comes up with a way to force the Chamberlains out of Spaulding (or at least selling their controlling interest) by making Quint and Henry think Vanessa could still face charges over the Josslyn Electronics kickbacks. He was always trying to curry Alex's favor, hoping to become  a kept man. 

37 minutes ago, P.J. said:

In 1982, Vanessa is very much used to advance other plots. While it's not exactly out-of-character, she's markedly colder and more controlling. She does thaw a bit towards the end of the year. By the end of the year, she has mended some fences with Ross, which is nice to see. I do wonder where Marland would've taken Vanessa had he stayed. He'd reset both Nola and Ross...so he did like to give his gray characters a redemption. 

I've caught some more of Trish and early Trish/Ross, and can't help but think they mishandled them. It seems like Chris Bernau's exit kind of stymied the progression of their romance, as they now don't really have an outside enemy to fight against.

Warren started out as a slimy user, and somehow got involved with Alan, who used him to set up Ross on drug charges. He's then involved in trying to use the Dreaming Death research as a bio-weapon, (or something, I'm not revisiting that RME story to get deets...lol) and then he's Alex's henchman who comes up with a way to force the Chamberlains out of Spaulding (or at least selling their controlling interest) by making Quint and Henry think Vanessa could still face charges over the Josslyn Electronics kickbacks. He was always trying to curry Alex's favor, hoping to become  a kept man. 

It would have been so much more compelling and believable, had they played Warren as openly gay.  A sexless straight baddy/sidekick really doesn't work. Writing Warren like the eunuch version of Roger Thorpe was a head scratcher...

3 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

It would have been so much more compelling and believable, had they played Warren as openly gay.  A sexless straight baddy/sidekick really doesn't work. Writing Warren like the eunuch version of Roger Thorpe was a head scratcher...

Warren got enough, at least in the beginning. He stole Lesley Ann away from Floyd and married her, and he was sleeping with Alex when she first came to town. I'm not sure how long it went on, but he was not a eunuch.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Who asked about the character of Gina? This is from 1984 (in spite of what the title says)

 

I did. Thank you so much for this. I had no idea this character even existed until two weeks ago

25 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Warren got enough, at least in the beginning. He stole Lesley Ann away from Floyd and married her, and he was sleeping with Alex when she first came to town. I'm not sure how long it went on, but he was not a eunuch.

Slept with Alex?  Poor Beverlee...

Edited April 21Apr 21 by Tisy-Lish

9 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

I think it was terrifc how gracious Jerry and his wife were with the fans and those luncheons

Now is it possible that Jane blew up because there were visitors on the set that day (as you witnessed). Because one of the reasons Soap Opera tours were rare, is because actor don't like many people on the set - as it detracts from their concentration when a doing a scene. Maybe Jane was doing a very important scene that day, and no one told her there are visitors on the set watching her perform. 

Jerry and Beth were fabulous people. His luncheons were fun. Marie, his fan club president, put on a great gathering. 
Unfortunately, your scenario about Jane is not what happened. The blowup I witnessed was not during an important scene. Actually the scene was quite routine and it was before Carrie split into different personalities. I was the only visitor, standing way off to the side. Jane would have had no idea that I was there.