11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Ahhh, see, this is why everyone loves you, @DRW50 !🙃

Unfortunately, that brief clip cut off before the camera pulled back enough for us to see all the attendees of the ceremony.

But, since so many SONers are collecting vintage soap scripts these days, I wonder if we could track down the Hope-Alan wedding script. It would list that day's characters, and the mystery would be solved!

I'm putting my money on him not being there. Only because he wasn't sitting next to Bert. Which would have been the logical place for him to be even at that stage of the game. But that's just the ceremony. He could have made an appearance around then. Although I kind of doubt it knowing the shabby treatment the character got towards the end. They almost turned him into a villain. Starting in the 70s. Bill Bauer never would have faked his death and let his family think he was dead. From that to him being pushed through a hotel window to his death at the hands of a bad storyline, the character was disrespected and retconned to the max. As much as I loved the character, he should have stayed dead in 1969 in that plane crash. Anyway, vetsoapfan, that might have been a case of your imagination being better than the actual writing (which is usually the case) and you just stuck with the rewrite in your mind. We won't know for sure until the scripts of that week show up. I might get them although my collection will probably stop in 1976 or 1977. I could get the odd script here or there, however.

The memory does play tricks on me, I'll admit, but I do not recall Ed Bryce reprising the role of Bill Bauer at all until August of 1983. Now, having Bill Bauer at Hope's wedding would have been such a Marland thing to do, but I don't remember Bill being on screen once the character left in 1978, even for a guest appearance.

13 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Long and her team seemed to have little knowledge of TGL's past, and they made various continuity blunders during their tenure. They didn't even know certain basic facts. I'd lean towards them not even knowing Simone existed or who she was, but I could be wrong. I tend to doubt Bert mentioned Meta. I loved the character so much, I probably would have screamed with excitement, LOL!

Actually, I have to say, Long had Bert mention Simone when Bill died..as in "Oh, I need talk to Simone, this will be so hard on her,' and Meta was mentioned a few times, (mainly when Charita was ill, she was visiting Meta and Mo went to visit them and came back with "Bert is great, but Ed she lost some weight so don't be suprised," ) mainly to prepare us for her return after her amputation. And of course, after Charita died Bert took care of an ailing Meta off camera.

Its weird, (and I know others disagree) but Long and company I felt did a great job at respecting history and bringing thoughtful things like this in, what went wrong in 85?

11 hours ago, Khan said:

I thought Dame Joan Collins would have made a wonderful recast for Elizabeth Spaulding. For one thing, she could've dipped in and out of story, depending on JC's availability. For another, they could have explained how, in the years since she departed Springfield, she had resumed her photography career, becoming a celebrity photographer like Annie Leibovitz or Herb Ritts. In turn, her success as a photographer would have restored the self-assurance that had evaporated during her marriage to Alan.

I LOVE this! Totally agree and that was my first thought when Joan/Alex appeared..and I LOVED Joan/Alex but I knew she wouldn't stay long. Plus they could have pumped up her return as yet another mother gone to Europe for years who were estranged from her kid. I would have had Elizabeth paying off a long time Spaulding staffer to keep her updated on things, and hearing that Lizzie was lost between her parents drama and when Alan faked his hear attack she did the same thing Alex did, report it drop the stock and buy it all up to come back and kick Alan. It would also be a good way to bring a recast Mike back..he and she were a couple again.

53 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I'm putting my money on him not being there.

55 minutes ago, zanereed said:

The memory does play tricks on me, I'll admit, but I do not recall Ed Bryce reprising the role of Bill Bauer at all until August of 1983. Now, having Bill Bauer at Hope's wedding would have been such a Marland thing to do, but I don't remember Bill being on screen once the character left in 1978, even for a guest appearance.

I hadn't thought about this at all for about 20 years until I saw a photograph of the wedding party and its guests on Pinterest in about 2023. Scanning the actors in the shot, I am sure Ed Bryce was present in a suit and tie, which made me exclaim, "Oh! I forgot Bill Bauer popped up at Hope's wedding!"

Was I wrong about the identity of the actor whom I identified as Ed Bryce? Possibly. Was I outright hallucinating? Also possible, ROTFLMAO.😝 But I've always been obsessive about rare references to, or appearances by, beloved characters no loner on the canvas. Mart Hulswit's Ed made a brief reference to Meta during a telephone conversation during the Dobson's tenure, and I zeroed right in on it, just like when Nancy Hughes once answered the phone at the end of an ATWT scene after Rosemary Prinz left, and explained happily, "Penny!" Jim and Mary Matthews talked about getting a postcard from a departed Uncle Dru, after Geoffrey Lumb had been let go from AW. I remember quirky things like this.

If people clearly remembered the wedding, I'd be more likely to accept their thoughts as definitive. I'm not prepared to die on this hill since my own memory is hazy. But folks are going on theories or speculation which are logical to them. This is perfectly valid, and I understand/respect why they believe what they believe, but the nagging feeling, based on my cloudy memory of the wedding and recollection of the picture on Pinterest remain.

Fortunately, this is not a question which will determination the fate of the world!

Like on so many other subjects, posters' variance of opinions and recollections are to be expected.

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by vetsoapfan

28 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Actually, I have to say, Long had Bert mention Simone when Bill died..as in "Oh, I need talk to Simone, this will be so hard on her,' and Meta was mentioned a few times, (mainly when Charita was ill, she was visiting Meta and Mo went to visit them and came back with "Bert is great, but Ed she lost some weight so don't be suprised," ) mainly to prepare us for her return after her amputation. And of course, after Charita died Bert took care of an ailing Meta off camera.

Its weird, (and I know others disagree) but Long and company I felt did a great job at respecting history and bringing thoughtful things like this in, what went wrong in 85?

I do remember the show used Meta as a reason why Bert was out of town for so long. Maureen even asked Ed at one point, "How is Meta?" after it was mentioned that Bert was visiting and caring for her. I don't remember any mention of Simone (even when Hillary died), but of course I will readily acknowledge that I did not see every moment of every episode broadcast, so it's quite possible, even probable, I missed things.

25 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I would have had Elizabeth paying off a long time Spaulding staffer to keep her updated on things, and hearing that Lizzie was lost between her parents drama and when Alan faked his hear attack she did the same thing Alex did, report it drop the stock and buy it all up to come back and kick Alan.

IDK whether I would've wanted Elizabeth involved with Spaulding Enterprises, but I do agree that she would've taken a special interest in Lizzie. (After all, she was kind of her namesake, lol). I do see her taking Lizzie under her wing, bringing her along to photography sessions and whatnot; and Lizzie deciding she wanted to follow in Elizabeth's footsteps and become a photographer herself, or (depending upon who was playing Lizzie at that point) even getting into the modeling game after being "discovered" during one of Elizabeth's shoots. (Phillip and Beth weren't agreeing on much by that point, but they definitely would be worried over Lizzie pursuing a modeling career at such an early age).

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Nope, nope, nope.

He was pretty bad in the beginning. He did a lot of sketchy stuff. He treated Holly (and Hillary) horribly during the rape trial. He tried to do a Spaulding takeover using Amanda's stock and money (he was her lawyer and financial advisor). Justin (who also had a bit of a sketchy past) was frequently lecturing him about his ambition and what he did to gratify it.

It was Marland who decided to "redeem" him. Probably JVD's natural niceness made it easy for the audience to accept it.

I hate when the past is just forgotten like that because it also takes complexity away that’s not even reflecting poorly on the reformed character. Like in the scenes before they sleep together where Ross feels empathetic to her because of how AM is treating her a “I know from experience when you’re obsessed with power you don’t care who you hurt in the moment, and he’s not going to change until he gives that up.” It also would bring his past into the Senate race and how he had been someone to chase power at all costs so this was all something of an internal battle. I feel like Blake/Ross are actually deeper if Ross forgiving Blake’s past sins because he used to be like her was more explicit versus St Ross gives it all up for Blake/love.

It makes me chuckle a bit thinking to the brief period where Ross tries to beat Roger at his own game and it’s definitely framed like Ross had never been underhanded before.

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

IDK whether I would've wanted Elizabeth involved with Spaulding Enterprises, but I do agree that she would've taken a special interest in Lizzie. (After all, she was kind of her namesake, lol). I do see her taking Lizzie under her wing, bringing her along to photography sessions and whatnot; and Lizzie deciding she wanted to follow in Elizabeth's footsteps and become a photographer herself, or (depending upon who was playing Lizzie at that point) even getting into the modeling game after being "discovered" during one of Elizabeth's shoots. (Phillip and Beth weren't agreeing on much by that point, but they definitely would be worried over Lizzie pursuing a modeling career at such an early age).

Lizzie being inspired by her glamorous grandmother's career as a not starving artist would be great, and connect with Beth's former artist ambitions which were forgotten when Rauch and team brought her back as a screwed up stuck up mean girl. I would have thrown in Marina at that time who was played by Aubrey and was wasted. I would have Lizzie being a Morgan type and Marian being a Nola ( I would even have her live in Nola's old room, "A girl who lived here before carved initials N.R. + K.N..who stupid and silly, she probalby love it here in this dump!") Marina wanting a Spaulding lifestyle and Lizzie wanting to follow a artist career path.

I know what you mean about joining Spaulding, but I love the "Ex Wives Club" as a highlight of the post Curlee years. Maybe India made it her goal to befriend "Phil-eppes" mother and Elizabeth signs over her stock to India to be a thorn in Alan's side and to f*ck with Liv.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I hadn't thought about this at all for about 20 years until I saw a photograph of the wedding party and its guests on Pinterest in about 2023. Scanning the actors in the shot, I am sure Ed Bryce was present in a suit and tie, which made me exclaim, "Oh! I forgot Bill Bauer popped up at Hope's wedding!"

Was I wrong about the identity of the actor whom I identified as Ed Bryce? Possibly. Was I outright hallucinating? Also possible, ROTFLMAO.😝 But I've always been obsessive about rare references to, or appearances by, beloved characters no loner on the canvas. Mart Hulswit's Ed made a brief reference to Meta during a telephone conversation during the Dobson's tenure, and I zeroed right in on it, just like when Nancy Hughes once answered the phone at the end of an ATWT scene after Rosemary Prinz left, and explained happily, "Penny!" Jim and Mary Matthews talked about getting a postcard from a departed Uncle Dru, after Geoffrey Lumb had been let go from AW. I remember quirky things like this.

If people clearly remembered the wedding, I'd be more likely to accept their thoughts as definitive. I'm not prepared to die on this hill since my own memory is hazy. But folks are going on theories or speculation which are logical to them. This is perfectly valid, and I understand/respect why they believe what they believe, but the nagging feeling, based on my cloudy memory of the wedding and recollection of the picture on Pinterest remain.

Fortunately, this is not a question which will determination the fate of the world!

Like on so many other subjects, posters' variance of opinions and recollections are to be expected.

I tell you what, vetsoapfan, Hope's wedding is an episode I would probably like to get. Not because I like weddings. I actually hate them. But I want to see anything with the focus on the Bauers. I will get that episode eventually, even if it's post-1976 and the mystery will be solved for you. It just might take a while.

13 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Sounds like she was being quiet fired and so she decided to quit instead of waiting to be fired...to leave on her own terms.

In her defense, she isn't off base especially since the character of Jennifer seemed to replace Elizabeth in Mike's orbit while Jackie and Hope seemed to be handling the Phillip parenting. So I guess Elizabeth spent a lot of 1980 in a trance trying to find herself so she could be a good parent to Phillip... and than decides on a whim to leave Phillip with Justin/Jackie without even telling Phillip that they were his real parents.

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I tell you what, vetsoapfan, Hope's wedding is an episode I would probably like to get. Not because I like weddings. I actually hate them. But I want to see anything with the focus on the Bauers. I will get that episode eventually, even if it's post-1976 and the mystery will be solved for you. It just might take a while.

You'll really hate this one because it's AWFUL. When Alan married Jackie it was a snazzy wedding on a yacht in the Mediterranean attended by European aristocrats and Arab shieks. Jackie wore a beautiful couture gown in a couple of shades of gold with Phillip giving her away.

He married Hope in her grandmother's house populated with hostile wedding guests. Hope wore a dress that looked like it was made out of a tablecloth. The cake looked like they got it from Publix and they danced their first dance to Bert singing "Let Me Call You Sweetheart." (I SWEAR I didn't make that up).

Now, you might be saying, "It's a Bauer family wedding, that's nice, it's homey and sweet."

But it was ALL WRONG for the story and the characters. If she was marrying Ben, that would have made sense. She was marrying one of the richest men in the country and it seemed like an afterthought.

Even though Marland kept Alan and Hope in front burner storylines (because they were a popular couple with the audience--he said that in interviews, I didn't) he just did not care much about the characters he inherited.

Anyway, I also want to see it again, to confirm it was as bad as I remember it and now I won't rest until I know if Bill Bauer was there, too. 😂

By the way, @vetsoapfan is it possible you are thinking of Ed and Rita's wedding? A picture of them on their wedding day with the guests (Rita's in her traveling clothes after the ceremony) pops up in my Pinterest feed every now and then. Now I'm trying to remember if Bill was in THAT picture. If I see it in my feed again (searching for it yielded only a picture of Ed with Rita in her wedding gown), I'll let you know.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by DeeVee

Just a few questions as I read through this thread - was there a need for Kelly Nelson with TJ Werner and Andy Norris already tied to core characters? Couldn’t JWS just have played the flawed TJ? I also didn’t realize Kelly was around until 1984, was he just hanging around Springfield for the last two years?

Someone also mentioned Peggy’s son could have became the young teen lead in the early-80s, was he old enough?

As for Holly-what career wise could she have done? Maybe it would have been nice for Holly and Ed to platonically reconnect while Holly becomes a career woman?

11 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

was there a need for Kelly Nelson with TJ Werner and Andy Norris already tied to core characters?

Good question! It was weird that Ed had a sudden godson no one ever heard of before.

17 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

Couldn’t JWS just have played the flawed TJ?

I think Kelly was created to be a kind of ideal romantic hero that young viewers would respond to. (Strangely enough, I think he was more popular with older women).

I was one of those young viewers at the time. I thought he was an obnoxious jerk. (And still do).

20 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

I also didn’t realize Kelly was around until 1984, was he just hanging around Springfield for the last two years?

They tried to create a romance between him and Claire Ramsey--I think she was created just for that purpose. It went over like a lead balloon.

21 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

Someone also mentioned Peggy’s son could have became the young teen lead in the early-80s, was he old enough?

Like Tim, he was a preteen back in the mid-70s. By the time the new set of young people hit town, they could have easily SORASed him a little.

28 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

As for Holly-what career wise could she have done? Maybe it would have been nice for Holly and Ed to platonically reconnect while Holly becomes a career woman?

Holly became wealthy at a young age from an inheritance. I don't think she had a career back then. Not to say she couldn't have found one. Maybe as a businesswoman, as she was when she returned.

If the Dobsons had stayed as writers of the show, I venture to guess that Ed and Holly would have become more than platonic friends.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by DeeVee

Thanks! With all that said, were their romantic options for Peggy and Sara (outside of Mike) had they stayed on for Billy and TJ?