11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks. I had wondered why he never went back with Claire Labine for RH's last years.

Given how well-liked Sonny was with fans and how much Sonny fit the template of an '80s lady for soaps I am not sure why they took a hatchet to her.

With all the changes Sunny was one of the longest running characters by that time. 

She had never been married and had heaps of story potential.

I can see America getting with SFT -you know 'the circus soap'. Smart move because circuses were all the rage with the kids in the 80's.

Maybe Stu and Jo could have bought the circus.

I'm curious the motivation for keeping Bela on beyond the circus story arc.  Did he play a character like his character on EON, or was he more of a good guy?

I know he ended up with Sunny at the end of the series, but I always thought that Sunny/Hogan could have been revived once the lack of chemistry between him and the NuLiza became apparent.   Actually... the NuLiza (Louan Gideon) reminded me more of Sunny than she did Liza as played by Sherry... and she just threw off the whole vibe of the show.

I see Estelle has just arrived in the late October 1985 episodes, which only means that Wendy and Stephanie are soon on their way out.  

It also appears that the Sarah/Quinn/Wendy triangle was set up by Mayer.. and it looks as though Tomlin is going to deactivate it by the introduction of Colleen Dion's character.   I don't understand why no one on the show thought to look at Quinn and realize that he was the problem and write him out.

7 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I know he ended up with Sunny at the end of the series, but I always thought that Sunny/Hogan could have been revived once the lack of chemistry between him and the NuLiza became apparent.

Theoretically, I would agree, but it seems like Paul Avila Mayer and Stephanie Braxton did such a number on Hogan, Sunny and Liza that reuniting Hogan and Sunny would've been a toxic situation.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Theoretically, I would agree, but it seems like Paul Avila Mayer and Stephanie Braxton did such a number on Hogan, Sunny and Liza that reuniting Hogan and Sunny would've been a toxic situation.

The episodes uploaded today by the YT channel have been done through the end of November 1985 and what a mess we have in the Liza/Sunny/Hogan/Lloyd/Estelle story.

I think it would have been easier to gradually bring Hogan/Sunny back together.. maybe even addressing the toxic situation and trying to work through it.  

Unrelated to all that, I see that Gary Tomlin has attempted to reset the show to where it was when he left at the end of 1983.  He really seems obsessed with regressing Wendy as a character after the progress/evolution of her character post 1983.. with her sleeping with her mother's new boyfriend.   Based on what I've watched of the show online... the one consistency was the mother/daughter relationship between Stephanie/Wendy... and even though Stephanie was recast, I think violating that relationship was a mistake.

I can see why Tomlin didn't last long in this stint as head writer.  

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

The episodes uploaded today by the YT channel have been done through the end of November 1985 and what a mess we have in the Liza/Sunny/Hogan/Lloyd/Estelle story.

I think it would have been easier to gradually bring Hogan/Sunny back together.. maybe even addressing the toxic situation and trying to work through it.  

Unrelated to all that, I see that Gary Tomlin has attempted to reset the show to where it was when he left at the end of 1983.  He really seems obsessed with regressing Wendy as a character after the progress/evolution of her character post 1983.. with her sleeping with her mother's new boyfriend.   Based on what I've watched of the show online... the one consistency was the mother/daughter relationship between Stephanie/Wendy... and even though Stephanie was recast, I think violating that relationship was a mistake.

I can see why Tomlin didn't last long in this stint as head writer.  

Tomlin's first stint was from May 1983 to March 1984 (11 months) when he left to become co head of AW. He lasts about six months the second time. But he' paired with John Whitesell this time and the show was a wreck after Mayer/Braxton's 6 months.

What did you all think of Hogan/Patti compared to the stuff with Liza and Sonny? Did you buy anything about Sonny and Bela?

Has a recast ever decentralized a character as much as Sherry's exit did with Liza? Or do you think that would have happened even if Sherry had stayed?

18 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

What did you all think of Hogan/Patti compared to the stuff with Liza and Sonny? Did you buy anything about Sonny and Bela?

Has a recast ever decentralized a character as much as Sherry's exit did with Liza? Or do you think that would have happened even if Sherry had stayed?

Thanks to the benefits of watching the last weeks of Sherry's stint as Liza and the start of Louan's stint as Liza... I can safely say that Liza would have remained the lead heroine had Sherry stayed on as Liza.   Charisma is a mighty important element that makes someone watchable and likable... and Sherry had that.

No disrepect for Louan because she was a good actress.. but to me, she played a more passive/neurotic Liza vs the more confident/decisive version of Liza.  I think the Liza vs Estelle over TR story would have had more impact with Sherry in the role..imho.

TR eventually came to be a nickname for Theresa Regina, the name her kidnappers gave her. Estelle never referred to her as Rebecca, though, always Theresa. I guess that was what TR wanted. 
 

TR went to Switzerland. Jane returned for the last week.  After Ryder died, TR never had a love interest. I assume they gave up. I wouldn’t have dropped John Loprieno as Danny but he got squeezed out by Quinn, really. A TR/Evie/Jerry triangle might’ve worked. 
 

David Forsyth and Jackie Schultz had good chemistry. I liked Luann though. I think Sharon Gabet would’ve been a more interesting recast, and she might’ve kept Joe Lambie on as Lloyd. 
 

But Suzi and Wendy were gone, and Liza was talking about leaving town to join Gary in Africa, so before the cancellation, I do believe Liza was getting phased out.  Sunny and Patti and Evie were set up as heroines, and it was a small show. 

2 minutes ago, anthonymolchan said:

TR eventually came to be a nickname for Theresa Regina, the name her kidnappers gave her. Estelle never referred to her as Rebecca, though, always Theresa. I guess that was what TR wanted. 

TR went to Switzerland. Jane returned for the last week.  After Ryder died, TR never had a love interest. I assume they gave up. I wouldn’t have dropped John Loprieno as Danny but he got squeezed out by Quinn, really. A TR/Evie/Jerry triangle might’ve worked. 

David Forsyth and Jackie Schultz had good chemistry. I liked Luann though. I think Sharon Gabet would’ve been a more interesting recast, and she might’ve kept Joe Lambie on as Lloyd. 

But Suzi and Wendy were gone, and Liza was talking about leaving town to join Gary in Africa, so before the cancellation, I do believe Liza was getting phased out.  Sunny and Patti and Evie were set up as heroines, and it was a small show. 

Thanks. I'm glad they didn't give her a love interest at that time as it would have felt false after Ryder's horrible death. 

I can definitely see how Patti would have replaced Liza.

Still not sure why they decided to kill off Suzi.

15 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I can definitely see how Patti would have replaced Liza.

Understand.  But actually Patti should have been a generation older than Liza. Patti and Janet Bergman (Liza's mother) had been contemporaries a decade earlier.  So when they cast Jacqueline Schultz as Patti, most long-term fans felt it did not ring true.   Sometimes de-aging a character by a few years is successful on soap operas.  But to de-age a character by an entire generation was silly and stretched believability a bit too far.     

3 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Understand.  But actually Patti should have been a generation older than Liza. Patti and Janet Bergman (Liza's mother) had been contemporaries a decade earlier.  So when they cast Jacqueline Schultz as Patti, most long-term fans felt it did not ring true.   Sometimes de-aging a character by a few years is successful on soap operas.  But to de-age a character by an entire generation was silly and stretched believability a bit too far.     

You're right and I do imagine many longtime viewers were put off. I suppose the show felt many of the longtime fans were gone, so in that sense I get it if the show had continued. They should have taken greater care with the generation below Patti.

It's hard to remember she was meant to be mother to Sarah. I wonder if that is one of the reasons they killed Sarah before Patti arrived. Or were those different teams?

And in addition to Patti being de-aged, she was no longer a nurse, divorced from Len(fair enough) and her two children were not seen and barely mentioned.

So basically she was a totally new character.

For newer viewers it didn't matter but any loyal viewers would have been wondering about all the changes with Patti.

Sarah Whiting always puzzled me. The writers finally decide to acknowledge Jo's family and do so by making up a never mentioned adopted teen. Why not just bring in Tracey, Jo's actual grandaughter?

As for Liza, perhaps it would have been wise to rest the character when Sherry left. They were big shoes to fill and her Liza was so identified with Travis. I don't recall what was going on in the story at that time but if they knew Sherry was leaving, write it so Liza would leave town to care for an ailing Janet and take a breather with the character for a few months.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

As for Liza, perhaps it would have been wise to rest the character when Sherry left. They were big shoes to fill and her Liza was so identified with Travis. I don't recall what was going on in the story at that time but if they knew Sherry was leaving, write it so Liza would leave town to care for an ailing Janet and take a breather with the character for a few months.

It is a shame that more characters didn't go the ATWT-Barbara route and make the ingénue into an antagonist. Sort of like they did with Liza/Hogan/Sunny, less successfully.

It is a credit to ATWT's creativity that breathed life in that character for years after she was fighting off bulls in Spain.  But, a character like Liza can only have so many true loves and high jinks on the high seas.  They need another reason to be in the story. Liza's wealth, as well as her acumen to see through fraud, was fertile ground for tons of stories.  But, I feel like the business stories for Liza were always about her being easily overwhelmed, rather than exploring things like her leadership and managerial skills.

Edited May 16May 16 by j swift

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

And in addition to Patti being de-aged, she was no longer a nurse, divorced from Len(fair enough) and her two children were not seen and barely mentioned.

So basically she was a totally new character.

For newer viewers it didn't matter but any loyal viewers would have been wondering about all the changes with Patti.

Sarah Whiting always puzzled me. The writers finally decide to acknowledge Jo's family and do so by making up a never mentioned adopted teen. Why not just bring in Tracey, Jo's actual grandaughter?

As for Liza, perhaps it would have been wise to rest the character when Sherry left. They were big shoes to fill and her Liza was so identified with Travis. I don't recall what was going on in the story at that time but if they knew Sherry was leaving, write it so Liza would leave town to care for an ailing Janet and take a breather with the character for a few months.

I don't think they were prepared for Sherry Mathis to exit. I think the scripts were written well in advance and they didn't expect her to go. Louanne was on the very next episode and a terrible recast.  Erwin Nicholson made the same mistake in casting with Nicole on Edge but they gave the character some weeks or months rest before they brought in Jayne Bentzen, I believe.  As I stated above, in rewatching these posted episodes, I am making a guess that Mayer/Braxton wrote many weeks in advance because of the Spring 85 writers' strike.  While the strike lasted only two weeks, SFT is the only P&G soap that had writer credits through the two weeks of air shows that included the strike weeks. I also am guessing that Mayer was signed to a six month minimum (soaps typically have actors and writers on 13 week contracts) and Mayer was fired exactly at 26 weeks from the day his material first started airing.  He was a disaster for the show and Erwin was tired and not what the show needed although scoring Lambie as Lloyd was his top achievement (he lasted a little less than 1 year).

18 hours ago, DRW50 said:

You're right and I do imagine many longtime viewers were put off. I suppose the show felt many of the longtime fans were gone, so in that sense I get it if the show had continued. They should have taken greater care with the generation below Patti.

It's hard to remember she was meant to be mother to Sarah. I wonder if that is one of the reasons they killed Sarah before Patti arrived. Or were those different teams?

Sarah was an adopted/foster child.  The age difference between Michelle Joyner and Jackie Schultz would’ve been an issue. But I disagree with all the Women to Watch victims being sacrificed (and Suzi later). 
 

Joe Lambie (Lloyd) was way too young to have fathered the OG Steve and Michael Kendall. We never got to see all four sons on the show at once.  That recast Steve was a joke, although I think we know why Steve Lundquist’s Speedo was cast…