Y&R: Episodes Discussion for the week June 22

[DRW50]

You make a lot of good points. I think that the forms that die tend to die more because the entire platform it's on dies, like broadcast radio; some radio soaps stayed strong all the way to the end of the networks putting on radio dramas. Or serials for magazines. They used to be everywhere, and now you'd be lucky to find them in Reader's Digest. I can't deny the advantages daytime soaps had in previous decades have been eroded over the years (women leaving the home, cable channels as competition), but I think they'd still be healthy enough to survive if not for the havoc brought on them over the past 15, 20, 25 years.

I guess we'll never know. I grew up with them, as many of us did, and the format was one I loved more than the primetime format, where we never get as much opportunity to get to know characters and watch them grow and change. I just want to believe, at some point, however far in the future, the 5 day a week soap can thrive, even if they have to go back to the old 15 minute format. I know Claire Labine said soaps never should have been extended beyond a half-hour. More and more I think she was right (then again, look at the masterpiece known as B&B ) .

I was so disappointed the online soaps from the mid 90s never really gained a foothold.

[MarkH]

Most people here agree with you.

I could tolerate every story in crashing, melodramatic ruination. I find romances mostly sappy, and attempts at comedy or mystery usually lame. So I am cool with this. But your opinion is definitely the majority!

[MarkH]

Bingo! With the bolded line, you have elucidated my opinion on what is happening to daytime soaps on broadcast TV.

The audience isn't there. (It really isn't there for broadcast in general anymore, but daytime started dying earlier due to the demographic/historical reasons you list). The platform is disappearing. But the form (the serial) will survive.

I don't miss the Perils of Pauline or Painted Dreams...because they were products of their platform and era. I will miss my soaps, because they have been (sorry for cliche) a true part of the fabric of my life. But I am very eager to see the next evolution.

[Sylph]

Comic books.

[MarkH]

Yeah, I'm ignorant about these. But they have really been going strong continuously, haven't they? No real sign of extinction there, is there?

[MichaelGL]

The thing is she's not pregnant at least anymore. It's very unnerving to see Victor, but most notably Ashley fawn over a lifeless baby in Ashley's stomach. Yes the idea is sickening, but it's the writers who wanted to go in this direction and appear to be loving it each time they have Ashley claim the baby kicked or do something within those lines. "Oooh look at us, we're having Victor and Ashley buy stuff for the baby, even though it's dead." Just stupid and stomach turning.

I probably wouldn't be so vehemently opposed to this if Ashley wasn't so damn fragile in the first place and knowing that all hell is going to break loose when the truth does come out. I mean if losing baby Robert was any preview of what's to come, then suspect Ashley to truly go bat [!@#$%^&*] crazy when she learns everything, including Adam's involvement.

Adam, well he's beyond redemptionin my eyes. They should just kill off when everything is done and said. It's hard to see him being redeemed after all is said and done, because there simply won't be anyone on his side.

[DRW50]

Comics have adapted through the years. Their current form (very dark, depressing sagas with constant reboots) began in the 80s, spurred on by DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths. They sold huge numbers in the late 80s and the early 90s but about 15 years ago they crashed down to earth and have not been doing all that well since then. It's a weird time for comics. Superman and Wonder Woman are both well known iconic creations but their sales are not that good now. The only pop culture creation who continues to be popular in mass public and in comics seems to be Batman.

[cara mia]

Mark, I believe the serial as an experience is much older than that. In the olden times, people were read to in piecemeal fashion. The serial as experience began in the Middle East with the Hebrew Bible. Outside of that, the fictional serialized story can be traced back to One Thousand & One Nights, where the clever Sheharazade had to spin story after story to literally keep her head on her shoulders. In Europe, writers - notably Thomas Malory - brought together disparate Arhturian legends into one grand Romance. Morte D'Arthur was divided into 8 books, similar to our version of a tv season.

[YRBB]

I actually loved loved loved MM in his first two episodes. He was heartbreaking when he told Heather about going blind and I unwittingly felt some zsa zsa zsu when he came on to Rafe. I'm sorry, scheme or no scheme, it was just hawt. Hope we'll be getting a kiss. At least it'll be fun!

[MarkH]

Very interesting, important additions. That comparative lit degree serves you well!

Why do you think Darwin's Pickwick Papers is heralded as the birth of the modern serial by many sources?

I'm nervous we won't get a kiss...only because then we'll have a whole "Nuke kissing ban" controversy. And Y&R needs a period of peace.

[Sylph]

cara mia has a comparative literature degree? Why hasn't anyone told me that?

[MoTheGreat]

I said the samething. There Rafe wasn't giving giving Adam the sex eyes or nothing. Did they even talk about Rafe liking guys? I'm trying to figure out why Adam apoarch Rafe like that.

[DRW50]

I assume Adam went after Rafe because he, or the writers, assume since Rafe is gay, of course he would want sex from another man, even under such bad circumstances. Adam never found out, onscreen, about Rafe. They gave this up for shock value, I guess.

I don't think viewers will be upset about Rafe and Adam not kissing, unless they were viewers who thought this was going to be some hot story or thought this was going to put Nuke to shame. The story which has played out so far is a sleazy sociopath putting the moves on a guy who barely looks 18. If they don't go beyond implications, I doubt most viewers will be bothered.

[cara mia]

Adam/Rafe is not the real upcoming gay story. We've been told that. Check the spoiler section for the real gay story coming up. My best guess right now is MJ dies in November, and Adam gets sent to jail before 2010, and probably won't return as a character for a few years. The real gay storyline will involve Rafe and a non-psycho and it will have the potential to be a long-term real relationship.

It's my dirty little secret.

[marla0518]

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