He has got a ten-year old son. Maybe he didn't feel prepared to play the amoral "J R Ewing" or even amoral "American Psycho". Maybe he didn't want his little boy to see him in that role someday.

Then he is in the wrong profession and made the right choice to quit. Actor's, just like politicians, broadcast journalists, Bill Gates, etc are all public figures. When you become a public figure, you relinquish your rights to privacy (that's a fact, you can consult any media law publication), so you either have to be able to step up and address issues to friends and family or just say "f*uck it, who cares" and move on with your life.

That's really a very eloquent press release, but still, pretty much what it seems to come down to is "they can't make me kiss a dude!" Except, they can. It's called a contract.

You can be homophobic without raging with 24-7 hatred and smashing bottlenecks over queens' heads behind the gay bar at 2 AM. There are degrees of phobic behavior. If Engen was so willing to jeopardize his career and his family's livelihood over a simple gay storyline, and is now saying no one can make him do it, that's homophobia.

He said he is own words that he refused to kiss a man.

An actor refusing to kiss a man makes him a homophobe!

An unprofessional Homphobe or in his case an out of work Homophobe!

Well, he may also be under some orders not to spoil future story.

He may be barred from being that explicit.

That is what I was thinking too, but of course I am being accused of siding with him from the beginning.

But if it was an amicable split as he said that could have been the stipulation. If they are going to go with making it look like Adam is really gay and then surprise it with a turn that he is just using Rafe, they woudln't want that spoiled right now. And it would be hard for him to fully explain his problems without that.

I was accused of being colorful with bringing up Frank Beaty yesterday and basically pulling somethign out of my ass. But Engen's statement sounds so much like much of what Beaty said or was said about him. The direction of Beaty's character really got under his skin and really bothered him. He did leave when he had his breakdown and thankfully he got to come back. But it was more than he could deal with.

But again I am just pulling stuff out of my ass.

Will I eat crow detroitpiston? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No. I will not. In fact, Engen more perfectly articulated his homophobia than I ever could. He basically argues FOR intolerance as an "experience of limitation". Translation = kissing a man will hurt me.

Intolerance of anything is a product of one’s underlying belief system as an experience of limitation. It is the line we intellectually draw within ourselves that prevents us from understanding those things we reject, because it defines the boundaries of who we are as individuals. We are what we are, but we are also NOT what we are not.

What a douche! Intolerance of a same-sex kiss on your own personal time is your choice, intolerance of a gay kiss under contract, in character, is quite another. The whole point is that if Adam kisses Rafe it does not make Engen gay, yet he seems to think it does! A kiss is just a kiss is just a kiss. It's his irrational fear of being put in any sort of homosexual situation as an actor that makes him homophobic. I don't think he should be doing cartwheels about a gay kiss, but his reaction to his character's direction is what makes him a homophobe. And he defends intolerance as an experience of limitation? Yeah he's limited alright. He draws the line at a meaningless kiss and implies that doing so would destroy the very fabric of who he is! Irrational fear of homosexuality = HOMOPHOBE.

I don't hate him folks, I feel sorry for him. And he seems at peace with his decision and I'm glad for that too. Hollywood was not the place for this "artist".

No because slander is spoken. It would be libel because all of this has been printed for the most part, but he still has yet to come forward and say "I am not a homophobe, I found nothing wrong with kissing a man." He hasn't address the kissing the man accusation. Plus, he walked off set and quit. None of what is being said here has damaged his career. What will damage it is him quitting mid-contract. What MAB and Rauch say to other producers is going to be the final nail in the coffin.

Damn. I knew I was wrong! You should have just stopped at the first line, LoL. Thanks!

Frank Beaty did his job and then some, frontburner for long periods with little sympathy from the insensitive PTB while his fellow actors supported him, IIRC. Chris Engen refused to do his job and alienated everyone.

And am I crazy, or did he say intolerance was A-OK because we all gotta live and let live?

Edited May 26, 200916 yr by Vee

Well, he may also be under some orders not to spoil future story.

He may be barred from being that explicit.

But that's irrelevant at this point because it was already announced that the actor walked because he refused to kiss another man. It's already been spoiled so it's not as if he were to say that, he'd spoil the surprise, it was already announced last week when he quit.

He could have easily said, "I quit because I didn't like the dark path Adam was going down, enough was enough." There, he just cleared his name, he wasn't happy with what was becoming of his character. He isn't unveiling any upcoming storylines. But he chose not to go that route. He chose not to come forward and say, "No, I didn't quit because I was against kissing the actor who plays Rafe." He doug himself deeper IMHO. He is never gonna lose the stigma of being a homophobe.

I was accused of being colorful with bringing up Frank Beaty yesterday and basically pulling somethign out of my ass. But Engen's statement sounds so much like much of what Beaty said or was said about him. The direction of Beaty's character really got under his skin and really bothered him. He did leave when he had his breakdown and thankfully he got to come back. But it was more than he could deal with.

This statement reminded me a lot of Beaty too.

And the ten year old son has a huge effect. I cannot lie.

In my mind, I'm hearing: "I do not want to play evil under the sun for my son to see. I do not want to play an amoral user who has sex with men and women for his own gain. I do not want to play the kind of guy who kills unborn babies for sport, or who hurts those who are nicest to him. I don't want to put a face ("visage") on that for my son to see."

I get that. Wanting to be a good model for one's son...even if the typical Hollywood actor would say "screw that, this is a good gig"...well...that's a pretty universally understandable motivation.

But I may be putting too much into his statement.

It was a decent enough statement for me. The folks in Mayberry are just going to have to deal with it.

I agree. *whistles*

The puzzle isn't complete for me until we hear from Ma Bell and her boys, though.

That's assuming you let your 10 year old son watch Y&R in the first place and watch Sharon bang half the cast. I doubt Roger Howarth or Trevor St. John would let their children watch Todd Manning at a similar age.

Edited May 26, 200916 yr by Vee

Will I eat crow detroitpiston? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No. I will not. In fact, Engen more perfectly articulated his homophobia than I ever could. He basically argues FOR intolerance as an "experience of limitation". Translation = kissing a man will hurt me.

I don't actually follow that line of argument Cashton.

The whole point is that if Adam kisses Rafe it does not make Engen gay, yet he seems to think it does! A kiss is just a kiss is just a kiss. It's his irrational fear of being put in any sort of homosexual situation as an actor that makes him homophobic.

We are 100% in agreement that "if Adam kisses Rafe it does not make Engen gay". Of course. But so far, there is nothing in Engen's statement that doesn't equally lend itself to the interpretation:

"If I play evil of this magnitude, it will harm the image my ten year old son holds of me in his eyes". And if he means his actions in this latter sense...well...I'm gonna have a hard time finding him wrong.

Frank Beaty did his job and then some, frontburner for long periods with little sympathy from the insensitive PTB while his fellow actors supported him, IIRC. Chris Engen refused to do his job and alienated everyone.

And am I crazy, or did he say intolerance was A-OK because we all gotta live and let live?

Engen's statement implies that he DOES have his fellow actors' support.

Where are you getting that connotation from, Vee?

I will admit I was totally confused about that "experience of limitation" part. I just don't understand it.

That's assuming you let your 10 year old son watch Y&R in the first place and watch Sharon bang half the cast. I doubt Roger Howarth or Trevor St. John would let their children watch Todd Manning at a similar age.

Okay, excellent point

But (and I know I am stretching, here), I thought more in terms of "when he sees clips of me, years from now, evilly killing babies and screwing everything with a pulse...I don't want him to have that image of me".

But I acknowledge I'm stretching. The ten-year-old kid really hits a nerve with me.

I agree. *whistles*

The puzzle isn't complete for me until we hear from Ma Bell and her boys, though.

Well Ma Bell is being interviewed by ... wait for it, wait for it ... NB. (The interview happened last week). So, we'll see....

Well Ma Bell is being interviewed by ... wait for it, wait for it ... NB. (The interview happened last week). So, we'll see....

I have confidence that Ma threatened to saw off Nelson's balls with her nails if he manages to twist around anything that she has to say.

Engen's statement implies that he DOES have his fellow actors' support.

I must have missed that. All I've seen are actors being quoted anonymously about his difficult and/or troubled behavior.

I will admit I was totally confused about that "experience of limitation" part. I just don't understand it.

That's because it was doubletalk fit for Sarah Palin. Translation: 'These are my boundaries, I don't like gay [!@#$%^&*], you can't make me like it or do it, and that's just part of our rich tapestry of life.' I hate that kind of bullshit.

The fact is, there are hundreds of other daytime actors with families who have played psychos, vixens, rapists, murderers and other assorted monsters. Rather than biting their nails to the cuticle over whether little Johnny will see them rape Marty Saybrooke or be unmasked as a child molester, they go to work and do the job - that's what you do as a working actor. Chris Engen is not special or courageous for choosing to walk out on a job where of all the things that his character might do in 2009, a homosexual kiss is his next obligation. That's an expression of sexuality, not violence or evil. Yet that's what he draws the line at? That's what makes him better and stronger and cleaner than everyone else in daytime?

There are some Nuke fans who like to call people homophobes if they don't like Luke/Noah together, it doesn't make someone a homophobe if they don't like this couple.

That word is thrown around alot.

I'm curious as to how many of us would be comfortable kissing someone of the opposite sex so easily or at all?