Yes, Phyllis had a horrible start on this show as a psycho. I'd like to think that Nick helped her heal some of those insecurities...and sadly that is no longer true. He now compounds them.

Let me also say I love the way Phyllis is with Nick's son, Noah. She offers support, love, friendship and stability...while Noah's mom consistently does not. She is a true wife and stepmom...a partner. It does kill me now, as Nick is catting around. I wish he'd open his eyes and see what a remarkable prize he has. Hot, funny, sexy, and totally devoted. These videos will make you retch...but they are a part of the reason that Nick should thank his stars for Phyllis.

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Maybe one can justifiably think Nick helped there but I think that gives Nick way too much credit. Phyllis was always stronger and smarter than Nick to me. She is who she is with him all Nick does is supress her edge

He's a hot, funny guy. They play video games and he throws down quite nicely. Over time, they became business partners and saw each other through some challenging times. They are not a couple of deeply expressed emotions. Instead, they are the second marriage...after all the drama and foolish youthful idealism is over...easy, sexy, realistic. Nick was with Sharon as a boy...literally just out of highschool. With Phyllis, he became a man. Of integrity even. (Until this latest debacle, which upsets me somewhat).

Whtever, I've yet to see the "man" he's become thanks to Phyllis. To me, he's still the eternal frat boy.

I see nothing realistic about them either - it's all so bland and one-note. They lack depth.

I completely agree, they're not romantic, they just have spicy sex. Hot sex and being romantic are not the same thing. Outside of sexual chemistry, they have no other chemistry.

You want candles and rose petals. Really? Really?

You want guitar playing in the courtyard? Meet cute?

Not for me...not for adults on their second or third marriage...in their 30s and 40s.

You want candles and rose petals. Really? Really?

You want guitar playing in the courtyard? Meet cute?

Not for me...not for adults on their second or third marriage...in their 30s and 40s.

What's so adult about Nick and Phyllis? They behave like hormonal teenages to me. Again, I see no maturity and depth in them.

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Don't you remember how they both resisted pushing their affair? They tried to fight it. Chemistry won out.

What you describe, for Nick, is an accurate origin story. But they became something more...friends and lovers. As for Phyllis...never for a second did I perceive her "marking territory". Never for a second did I sense she was attracted to him because of the Newman money. I didn't even read that in subtext.

He's a hot, funny guy. They play video games and he throws down quite nicely. Over time, they became business partners and saw each other through some challenging times. They are not a couple of deeply expressed emotions. Instead, they are the second marriage...after all the drama and foolish youthful idealism is over...easy, sexy, realistic. Nick was with Sharon as a boy...literally just out of highschool. With Phyllis, he became a man. Of integrity even. (Until this latest debacle, which upsets me somewhat).

I completly missed this beat even before MAB regressed the three of them. I never saw Nick become a man especially not in the Phick pairing. Nick doesn't even know himself without either woman. I actually think what's playing out on screen is Phyllis trying to make him into her ideal man and him showing resistance because she is being too controlling

I find most people like Phyllis and Nick just because it isn't Nick and Sharon. Not because they're good together or interesting together, just because it's not Sharon.

I have never really cared for the institution known as Nick and Sharon so at least for me anyway, this has been a blessing. I think people love Phyllis and Nick together before and after the affair because they at least to me (can't speak for anyone else and don't care to either) reminds us that sometimes the person who you think isn't your type turns out be your type after all and there are no rules/guidelines for relationships. It is whatever works and make one happy - and yes that same happy can go unhappy too. I guess this is why we always have this neverending unnecessary comparison about Shick vs. Phick or both relationships vs. other relationships.

This has got to be the longest, short-term affair I have ever seen. I doubt very much that Nick and Phyllis are over - it appears the writers have taken the time to figure out how to take them to that next level. They have already started laying the other groundwork. But both Nick, Phyllis and the pairing have got to go through some hard growing pains and what I affectionately like to call "TURBULENCE". And I love TURBULENCE, so MAB better not disappoint me!! I agree too with whoever said now we are getting to see Joshua & Michelle more engaged in the material...that's possibly because a "WRITER who can write for COUPLES/ACTORS who don't want "pies and white picket fences" is writing!!

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by JimTolkien

I think people love Phyllis and Nick together before and after the affair because they at least to me (can't speak for anyone else and don't care to either) reminds us that sometimes the person who you think isn't your type turns out be your type after all and there are no rules/guidelines for relationships. It is whatever works and make one happy - and yes that same happy can go unhappy too. I guess this is why we always have this neverending unnecessary comparison about Shick vs. Phick or both relationships vs. other relationships.

Personally, I've seen nothing of this "type" thing. The only connection they share is sex, nothing emotional or of substance, to me. It hasn't ever been reflected in the writing, or the horrific acting Morrow and Stafford produce together.

I'm not a big Nick and Sharon fan, but their early realtionship and even their relationship now is much more clearly defined than whatever Nick and Phyllis have.

Not to mentioned, Stafford should be paired with someone that doesn't make her look so damn old. Television is a visual medium after all...

...that's possibly because a "WRITER who can write for COUPLES/ACTORS who don't want "pies and white picket fences" is writing!!

I like that phrasing. Many in the audience don't want pies and white picket fences.

One of my all-time favorite couples was Lionel and August Lockridge on Santa Barbara. Sexual, incendiary. When the writing on that show was good, that couple was unbeatable.

Nick and Phyllis are less dysfunctional, but together they seem like a couple that is PAST all the "soulmate" bullsh!t. They enjoy each other. That's truly enough.

I agree the couple could be strengthened if they talked more and problem solved together more.

Now, what about Phyllis' reaction to the affair. I agree it has weakened her. But even she sees that...hence "I hate you" in the mirror.

I LOVED her reaction after the first sex. "No, you will NOT leave. No, you will work on this!" How adult. How accurate...like Elizabeth Edwards, there is a FAMILY to consider.

After the second sex, you will recall that she did respond with anger and kick him out. But again, there is more at stake than Phyllis, and she gets that. There is the marriage and the family. I love the Phyllis is being strong, and reminding Nick of that. Nick is realizing that he is being weak in the relationship, and Phyllis is being the strong tether that is helping him find his way home.

I think those two could now get back on solid footing...maybe even emerge stronger due to all this. EXCEPT THAT DAMN EMBRYO SHARON HATCHED WHILE DRUNK AS A SKUNK is now gonna throw a monkey wrench.

Personally, I've seen nothing of this "type" thing. The only connection they share is sex, nothing emotional or of substance, to me. It hasn't ever been reflected in the writing, or the horrific acting Morrow and Stafford produce together.

I'm not a big Nick and Sharon fan, but their early realtionship and even their relationship now is much more clearly defined than whatever Nick and Phyllis have.

Not to mentioned, Stafford should be paired with someone that doesn't make her look so damn old. Television is a visual medium after all...

My goodness. My mouth is agape.

I disagree on the "emotional substance". In the most useless scenes, we just have to look in Stafford's eyes, and there is a world of substance there. Honestly, that is enough. The writers are trusting the actress to sell it...they don't need to lay it out in clunky word after word.

Stafford does NOT look old. She is a totally totally banging babe. Pure sex. One need only take one glance at her, and one can instantly understand why Nick is in her sexual thrall. She is amazing.

Indeed, until you wrote this, seriously, I totally forgot there might be an age difference.

Please spare me a longterm Morrow and Stafford pairing. They just "act" horribly together.

Stafford comes alive in scenes with Bergman, and even LeBlanc. With Morrow? Not so much.

Edited May 17, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Don't worry, the entire rabid section of ther Phick fanbase blames Sharon for Phyllis being an idiot.

I agree, and a lot of the rabid Phyllis/Phick fans are the same way. It isn't that the necessarily like Nick and Phyllis together, they just don't want to lose to Sharon.

Whtever, I've yet to see the "man" he's become thanks to Phyllis. To me, he's still the eternal frat boy.

I see nothing realistic about them either - it's all so bland and one-note. They lack depth.

What's so adult about Nick and Phyllis? They behave like hormonal teenages to me. Again, I see no maturity and depth in them.

Personally, I've seen nothing of this "type" thing. The only connection they share is sex, nothing emotional or of substance, to me. It hasn't ever been reflected in the writing, or the horrific acting Morrow and Stafford produce together.

I'm not a big Nick and Sharon fan, but their early realtionship and even their relationship now is much more clearly defined than whatever Nick and Phyllis have.

Not to mentioned, Stafford should be paired with someone that doesn't make her look so damn old. Television is a visual medium after all...

I like that phrasing. Many in the audience don't want pies and white picket fences.

One of my all-time favorite couples was Lionel and August Lockridge on Santa Barbara. Sexual, incendiary. When the writing on that show was good, that couple was unbeatable.

Nick and Phyllis are less dysfunctional, but together they seem like a couple that is PAST all the "soulmate" bullsh!t. They enjoy each other. That's truly enough.

I agree the couple could be strengthened if they talked more and problem solved together more.

Now, what about Phyllis' reaction to the affair. I agree it has weakened her. But even she sees that...hence "I hate you" in the mirror.

I LOVED her reaction after the first sex. "No, you will NOT leave. No, you will work on this!" How adult. How accurate...like Elizabeth Edwards, there is a FAMILY to consider.

After the second sex, you will recall that she did respond with anger and kick him out. But again, there is more at stake than Phyllis, and she gets that. There is the marriage and the family. I love the Phyllis is being strong, and reminding Nick of that. Nick is realizing that he is being weak in the relationship, and Phyllis is being the strong tether that is helping him find his way home.

I think those two could now get back on solid footing...maybe even emerge stronger due to all this. EXCEPT THAT DAMN EMBRYO SHARON HATCHED WHILE DRUNK AS A SKUNK is now gonna throw a monkey wrench.

I really really love your post!! I really do!! Different strokes for different folks in what we view!!! I agree, Phyllis's reaction to the affair has weakened her, no doubt about that. But we know why, it's because for Phyllis the writers have given her the dialogue, Nick is the love of her life so I understand the loss of strength when it comes to that. And yeah, Phyllis is being the strong tether that is helping him find his way home.

I don't mind that embryo Sharon throwing a monkey wrench into this. I welcome it!! This is the strongest test that Nick and Phyllis's have ever faced in their relationship and I can't wait to see how the writers write this storyline. Hopefully Nick and Sharon can finish their unfinished business for a spell and we can get the show on the road again.

Phyllis needs a more dynamic love interest, not the eternal frat boy, and preferably one whose acting will raise the bar of Stafford's acting. Morrow doesn't challenge Stafford the way Bergman did, thus it is one of the many reasons Nick and Phyllis are dull and lack nuance.

Phyllis needs a more dynamic love interest, not the eternal frat boy, and preferably one whose acting will raise the bar of Stafford's acting. Morrow doesn't challenge Stafford the way Bergman did, thus it is one of the many reasons Nick and Phyllis are dull and lack nuance.

Even if I agreed with your assessment of Morrow (I don't...all you have to do is watch when he woke up during his "Nick Van Winkle" story), let's stipulate agreement.

That still doesn't mean the couple has to be broken up. They can do their thing as "Phick", and Stafford can get her "complex scene partners" in business stories, and other sotries that don't involve her romance with Nick. For example, I love Phyllis and Lauren together. I buy that relationship. So, Stafford can be in a story with Lauren...and come home to her guy.

We won't convince each other . I think this lack of consensus about the couple is very good for the show...it means they have a permanently viable triangle that will always keep the audience engaged and different aspects of fandom happy or miserable.

....No, I meant strictly in the romantic sense.

And you're right, we're almost total opposites when it comes to this show. I also find myself agreeing with Sylph that you retionalize every bad thing about this show, but don't allow the same leeway to other shows, but I guess that's the "fanboi" in you.